Senate passes repeal of DADT with 65 votes

[patrick1]

I heart this thread.  People getting pissed off left and right.  Bitterness and enmity. Atlas as a microcosm.

[Holmes]

Vander Blubb complaining about people crying out for attention.

Hahaha.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

So you believe in this then....


"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." 

do I believe that NT church members are to be executioners of sinners?  no, the execution of sinners back then was simply a prefiguration of God's eternal judgment.  For the believer, Christ died and took the wages of sin (death) upon himself.

do I still believe homosexuality is a sin that if not overcome will result in the person being eternally condemned?  absolutely.

[anvi]

Hey Angus, I'm ok with your major reason for supporting the repeal.  Of course there are goals in military effectiveness.  But there are also principles of what we are fighting for.  It's kind of hard to justify fighting for the protection of freedom when the fighting force itself, or the government that commands it, discriminates against those who would choose to serve.  So, the fact that egalitarian and moral concerns are be predominant ones in your mind sounds good to me.

[afleitch]

do I still believe homosexuality is a sin that if not overcome will result in the person being eternally condemned?  absolutely.

Cute. I've always wondered how that's supposed to work given the testimony of countless numbers who persuaded themselves they had done so only to realise they had been sold a pup by the charlatan that promised them a fix for the unfixable.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

do I still believe homosexuality is a sin that if not overcome will result in the person being eternally condemned?  absolutely.

Cute. I've always wondered how that's supposed to work given the testimony of countless numbers who persuaded themselves they had done so only to realise they had been sold a pup by the charlatan that promised them a fix for the unfixable.

of course, you discount the testimony of the ones who actually escaped out of homosexuality.  as i said earlier:

The Gordon Gekko types, those who try to pass their character flaws off as “good”, would be the ones that would scream, “If you hate greed, then you hate me, for I was born greedy.  I was greedy from my earliest childhood memories! You can’t change me.  God can’t change me.  God’s not powerful enough to remake me.  I won’t let him.  I like the way I am.  Leave me alone or I will attack you and call you mean names!”

[shua]

just to be clear jmfcst, if a dude likes a dude but doesnt have sex with a dude, the dude's okay right?

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

just to be clear jmfcst, if a dude likes a dude but doesnt have sex with a dude, the dude's okay right?

define "likes a dude"...do you mean "likes a dude as a dude likes a fellow dude" or "likes a dude as a dude likes a dudette"?

[afleitch]

do I still believe homosexuality is a sin that if not overcome will result in the person being eternally condemned?  absolutely.

Cute. I've always wondered how that's supposed to work given the testimony of countless numbers who persuaded themselves they had done so only to realise they had been sold a pup by the charlatan that promised them a fix for the unfixable.

of course, you discount the testimony of the ones who actually escaped out of homosexuality.  as i said earlier:

The Gordon Gekko types, those who try to pass their character flaws off as “good”, would be the ones that would scream, “If you hate greed, then you hate me, for I was born greedy.  I was greedy from my earliest childhood memories! You can’t change me.  God can’t change me.  God’s not powerful enough to remake me.  I won’t let him.  I like the way I am.  Leave me alone or I will attack you and call you mean names!”

Of course I discount it; because of the testimony of those who realised they couldn't change makes you understand what they went through because of social or religious pressure. Look at this way jmfcst; ex-gay'therapy' is a scam. Scientology is also a scam out to get people by saying theres something wrong with them that only Scientology can 'cure.' Who's testimony do you trust more - those in Scientology who say it's wonderful and amazing and fantastic or those who got out and exposed it for the sham that it is?

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

do I still believe homosexuality is a sin that if not overcome will result in the person being eternally condemned?  absolutely.

Cute. I've always wondered how that's supposed to work given the testimony of countless numbers who persuaded themselves they had done so only to realise they had been sold a pup by the charlatan that promised them a fix for the unfixable.

of course, you discount the testimony of the ones who actually escaped out of homosexuality.  as i said earlier:

The Gordon Gekko types, those who try to pass their character flaws off as “good”, would be the ones that would scream, “If you hate greed, then you hate me, for I was born greedy.  I was greedy from my earliest childhood memories! You can’t change me.  God can’t change me.  God’s not powerful enough to remake me.  I won’t let him.  I like the way I am.  Leave me alone or I will attack you and call you mean names!”

Of course I discount it; because of the testimony of those who realised they couldn't change makes you understand what they went through because of social or religious pressure. Look at this way jmfcst; ex-gay'therapy' is a scam. Scientology is also a scam out to get people by saying theres something wrong with them that only Scientology can 'cure.' Who's testimony do you trust more - those in Scientology who say it's wonderful and amazing and fantastic or those who got out and exposed it for the sham that it is?

Scientology?!  Let's keep the context on Christ:  if a pig that is washed returns to wallowing in the mud, does that mean the pig was never cleaned?  or if a dog returns to his vomit, does that mean the dog never threw up?  If some drunks conquer alcoholism and some drunks fail, does that discount the ones who escaped?

[memphis]

I wanna see the dirty pig jmfcst in anti-straight therapy.

[afleitch]

Scientology?!  Let's keep the context on Christ:  if a pig that is washed returns to wallowing in the mud, does that mean the pig was never cleaned?  or if a dog returns to his vomit, does that mean the dog never threw up?  If some drunks conquer alcoholism and some drunks fail, does that discount the ones who escaped?

No. Let's not. Until you learn to start answering the question that is put to you, you do not have the right to dictate the context of the debate. Agreed?

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

I wanna see the dirty pig jmfcst in anti-straight therapy.

as if heterosexuality is something one needs to cleansed of?  And who said anything about "therapy"?  All it takes to be cleansed of sin is a meeting with Christ.

[afleitch]

Scientology?!  Let's keep the context on Christ:  if a pig that is washed returns to wallowing in the mud, does that mean the pig was never cleaned?  or if a dog returns to his vomit, does that mean the dog never threw up?  If some drunks conquer alcoholism and some drunks fail, does that discount the ones who escaped?

No. Let's not. Until you learn to start answering the question that is put to you, you do not have the right to dictate the context of the debate. Agreed?

I wanna see the dirty pig jmfcst in anti-straight therapy.

as if heterosexuality is something one needs to cleansed of?  And who said anything about "therapy"?  All it takes to be cleansed of sin is a meeting with Christ.

Ignoring the Christians who can reconcile their faith with their sexuality again jmfcst

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Scientology?!  Let's keep the context on Christ:  if a pig that is washed returns to wallowing in the mud, does that mean the pig was never cleaned?  or if a dog returns to his vomit, does that mean the dog never threw up?  If some drunks conquer alcoholism and some drunks fail, does that discount the ones who escaped?

No. Let's not. Until you learn to start answering the question that is put to you, you do not have the right to dictate the context of the debate. Agreed?

Do I need to point out the obvious flaw in your logic?  I only have to change one phrase to have you sound exactly like a drunk unwilling to come clean:

Of course I discount it; because of the testimony of those who realised they couldn't change makes you understand what they went through because of social or religious pressure. Look at this way jmfcst; ex-gay AA 'therapy' is a scam. Scientology is also a scam out to get people by saying theres something wrong with them that only Scientology can 'cure.' Who's testimony do you trust more - those in Scientology who say it's wonderful and amazing and fantastic or those who got out and exposed it for the sham that it is?

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

I wanna see the dirty pig jmfcst in anti-straight therapy.

as if heterosexuality is something one needs to cleansed of?  And who said anything about "therapy"?  All it takes to be cleansed of sin is a meeting with Christ.

Ignoring the Christians who can reconcile their faith with their sexuality again jmfcst

no, I ignore "Christians" who hack the scriptures to suit what their itchy ears want to hear

[afleitch]

Scientology?!  Let's keep the context on Christ:  if a pig that is washed returns to wallowing in the mud, does that mean the pig was never cleaned?  or if a dog returns to his vomit, does that mean the dog never threw up?  If some drunks conquer alcoholism and some drunks fail, does that discount the ones who escaped?

No. Let's not. Until you learn to start answering the question that is put to you, you do not have the right to dictate the context of the debate. Agreed?

Do I need to point out the obvious flaw in your logic?  I only have to change one phrase to have you sound exactly like a drunk unwilling to come clean:

Of course I discount it; because of the testimony of those who realised they couldn't change makes you understand what they went through because of social or religious pressure. Look at this way jmfcst; ex-gay AA 'therapy' is a scam. Scientology is also a scam out to get people by saying theres something wrong with them that only Scientology can 'cure.' Who's testimony do you trust more - those in Scientology who say it's wonderful and amazing and fantastic or those who got out and exposed it for the sham that it is?

I gave the example of another faith (Scientology) offering people a cheap fix for their perceived problems. Which is exactly what some Christians flog to gays. Now answer the question; whose testimony due you trust - the gullible person deeply embedded in Scientology thinking their stress was due to 'soul dust' or the person who left knowing that what it offered was a sham that made problems where there were none.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

I gave the example of another faith (Scientology) offering people a cheap fix for their perceived problems. Which is exactly what some Christians flog to gays. Now answer the question; whose testimony due you trust - the gullible person deeply embedded in Scientology thinking their stress was due to 'soul dust' or the person who left knowing that what it offered was a sham that made problems where there were none.

there is corruption in everything (in school, in church, in business, in politics), so I don't discount institutions based on the failures of humans, otherwise I would renounce school, business, etc, etc, etc.

also, it should be noted that many times on this forum I have discounted the idea that "sinner's prayer" automatically translates into an conversion to Christ or an experience with Christ.  I myself have stated I said that prayer years before my conversion and knew at the time nothing was changed about me.

So do I discount human programs, whether in Scientology or Christianity?  Yes, absolutely.  But discounting human programs has nothing to do with the power of God.

[Gravis Marketing]

Comparisons to filth, mud, and vomit are an effective propaganda technique for associating the target with an individual's natural sense of disgust. Additional options are to associate them with infectious disease, vermin (rats, fleas), or decaying food.

[Wrecking Ball and Chain]

Did Bushie seriously cite Leviticus? Seriously? No one follows all the crap in that today.

Comparisons to filth, mud, and vomit are an effective propaganda technique for associating the target with an individual's natural sense of disgust. Additional options are to associate them with infectious disease, vermin (rats, fleas), or decaying food.

I tend to associate the first couple examples with false bigoted churches like the one BushOK goes to and the Catholic Church.

[Smash255]

I wanna see the dirty pig jmfcst in anti-straight therapy.

as if heterosexuality is something one needs to cleansed of?  And who said anything about "therapy"?  All it takes to be cleansed of sin is a meeting with Christ.

Ignoring the Christians who can reconcile their faith with their sexuality again jmfcst

no, I ignore "Christians" who hack the scriptures to suit what their itchy ears want to hear

Oh you mean like you do when you say gays shouldn't be put to death, or that slavery isn't a good thing, or that the first born shouldn't be sacrificed.   Unless if you believe in those things then you are hacking scriptures as well.

[ShadowOfTheWave]

I am genuinely curious about what the 'straight' therapy consists of. Besides something like hormonal treatments or some type of lobodomy I can't see therapy affecting your sexuality in anyway whatsoever. But I really would like to know, is it some kind of hypnosis or just prayer? Either way it has to be bullsh**t, but if it is just a 'pray the gay away' thing I've lost even more respect for the Christian religion.

Interestingly, we constantly hear of these studies and evidence that homosexuality is not something your born with, or that as Ted Haggard's wife says people can be 'conditioned' in their sexuality. But I've never seen any of it. Saying you know someone who 'used to be gay' is not evidence at all, just an irrational statement based on something you cannot prove. How can you know if someone's sexual attraction has changed? And if people can be conditioned in their sexuality does that mean heterosexuals can turn gay? Or people can turn themselves into pedophiles?

[memphis]

I am genuinely curious about what the 'straight' therapy consists of. Besides something like hormonal treatments or some type of lobodomy I can't see therapy affecting your sexuality in anyway whatsoever. But I really would like to know, is it some kind of hypnosis or just prayer? Either way it has to be bullsh**t, but if it is just a 'pray the gay away' thing I've lost even more respect for the Christian religion.

Interestingly, we constantly hear of these studies and evidence that homosexuality is not something your born with, or that as Ted Haggard's wife says people can be 'conditioned' in their sexuality. But I've never seen any of it. Saying you know someone who 'used to be gay' is not evidence at all, just an irrational statement based on something you cannot prove. How can you know if someone's sexual attraction has changed? And if people can be conditioned in their sexuality does that mean heterosexuals can turn gay? Or people can turn themselves into pedophiles?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex-gay_therapy

[opebo]

wow

obviously, no one could be that mad at BushOK.  Rather the true target of this outburst is the bible.

People usually don't get mad at books (like the Bible or Koran), rather, they get mad at how extremists interpret them.

Or rather, that anyone is dumb enough to take them seriously at all in the first place.

[Grumps]

wow

obviously, no one could be that mad at BushOK.  Rather the true target of this outburst is the bible.

People usually don't get mad at books (like the Bible or Koran), rather, they get mad at how extremists interpret them.

Or rather, that anyone is dumb enough to take them seriously at all in the first place.

Even if they take the books seriously, that's not the same as extemists, bro.