What do you think about dont Ask don't tell latest development?
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  What do you think about dont Ask don't tell latest development?
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Author Topic: What do you think about dont Ask don't tell latest development?  (Read 8209 times)
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jmfcst
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« Reply #75 on: December 22, 2010, 01:41:32 PM »

really, they why are homosexuals asking citizens to recognize their marriages?

They are asking the government to recognize their marriages. You are not the government, no matter how you may wish to be so in your Dominionist fantasies. Not yet, at any rate.

"We the People..."

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Then being 'exposed' to homosexuals won't require that they "give up being decent human beings" either, now will it?

no, but anyone who says our society must force people to expose themselves to those of the opposite sexual orientation, is not decent.

---

Your 'common decency' is just that: common. In nobler times, the word 'common' had all the negative connotations that the word 'brute' does today. But, alas, we've become thoroughly democratized.

in nobler times, Einziges didn't live long.
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fezzyfestoon
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« Reply #76 on: December 22, 2010, 01:44:27 PM »

in nobler times, Einziges didn't live long.

Because murder is the Christian way of handling people who disagree.  Or you can just ignore them.
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Einzige Mk. II
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« Reply #77 on: December 22, 2010, 01:46:23 PM »


I don't think too highly of "the People", and I don't believe our forefathers did either, or else they'd have been democrats and not aristocratic republicans.

no, but anyone who says our society must force people to expose themselves to those of the opposite sexual orientation, is not decent.

For the most homophobic of them, it's an occupational hazard. Photographers must sometime be willing to photograph images that they may find morally objectionable or unconscionable, yet you don't seem too concerned with preserving their moral purity.

in nobler times, Einziges didn't live long.

To the contrary, we were the ones that made sure others didn't. ;-)
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jmfcst
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« Reply #78 on: December 22, 2010, 01:59:24 PM »

in nobler times, Einziges didn't live long.

Because murder is the Christian way of handling people who disagree.  Or you can just ignore them.

my point was those "nobler times" werent' nobel at all.
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jmfcst
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« Reply #79 on: December 22, 2010, 02:12:25 PM »

Isn't killing one of the very first things Christians aren't supposed to do?  So why do you care so much about gays being gay in the military if the entire point of the military is to break one of the cardinal rules?

I'm really not interested to explain the obvious difference between killing and murder in the bible.  but, if you'll read even the New Testament, you find soldiers converted to Christianity and none of them left their occupations, instead they were called agents of God and held in high regard.

"turn the other cheek" is in regard to being slapped in the face - insulted, in that we are not to return insult with insult.  it has nothing to do with protecting your physical self against physical harm, which is why Jesus instructed his followers to take up swords to protect themselves (Luke 22:35-38),  though Peter misapplied the teaching and attempted to use the sword to keep Christ from being arrested because he did not realize Christ had to die.
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jmfcst
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« Reply #80 on: December 22, 2010, 02:18:31 PM »

You do insist that the discussion be bible based.  It's the only way you converse.  You refuse to argue with regard to any other authority.  You refuse to acknowledge any other interpretation of right and wrong or engage in a conversation that respects other beliefs.

oh, I respect your right to believe what you choose.  I wouldn't have it any other way.

but I will preach the Gospel whether you think it is right or not, and I will object will your "belief" attempt to expose the rest of the public to the lusts of the mob.

if the the gay movement was decent, it would ask for separate showers.
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Einzige Mk. II
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« Reply #81 on: December 22, 2010, 02:20:37 PM »

but I will preach the Gospel whether you think it is right or not, and I will object will your "belief" attempt to expose the rest of the public to the lusts of the mob.

You aren't the martyr you want to be.

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Do the words "separate but equal" mean anything to you?
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Ebowed
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« Reply #82 on: December 22, 2010, 02:21:51 PM »

if the the gay movement was decent, it would ask for separate showers.

Maybe separate combat units, as well?
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jmfcst
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« Reply #83 on: December 22, 2010, 02:26:37 PM »

but I will preach the Gospel whether you think it is right or not, and I will object will your "belief" attempt to expose the rest of the public to the lusts of the mob.

You aren't the martyr you want to be.

never said I "wanted" to be a martyr

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Do the words "separate but equal" mean anything to you?

yeah, in this case, it means "non sequitur"
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Brittain33
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« Reply #84 on: December 22, 2010, 02:28:49 PM »

We don't have separate showers at my gym. I trust military personnel to be at least as professional as every man who belongs to a gym in metro areas of the U.S.
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opebo
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« Reply #85 on: December 22, 2010, 02:32:24 PM »

...anyone who says our society must force people to expose themselves to those of the opposite sexual orientation, is not decent.

So you mean if we force the gay to be exposed to the straight, we are treating the gay indecently?  Because you didn't specify which direction the hate was supposed to go there, Black Beans.
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Einzige Mk. II
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« Reply #86 on: December 22, 2010, 02:32:55 PM »

never said I "wanted" to be a martyr

You certainly talk like one. Why else the whining about the evil gay agenda forcing you to "condone and certify" anything? It certainly smacks of persecutionism to me.

yeah, in this case, it means "non sequitur"

Not hardly.
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Ebowed
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« Reply #87 on: December 22, 2010, 05:20:50 PM »

...anyone who says our society must force people to expose themselves to those of the opposite sexual orientation, is not decent.

So you mean if we force the gay to be exposed to the straight, we are treating the gay indecently?  Because you didn't specify which direction the hate was supposed to go there, Black Beans.

Haha.  Something tells me that this doesn't quite go both ways for poor old jmf.
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jmfcst
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« Reply #88 on: December 22, 2010, 05:32:05 PM »

...anyone who says our society must force people to expose themselves to those of the opposite sexual orientation, is not decent.

So you mean if we force the gay to be exposed to the straight, we are treating the gay indecently?  Because you didn't specify which direction the hate was supposed to go there, Black Beans.

Haha.  Something tells me that this doesn't quite go both ways for poor old jmf.

not sure what you mean, but obviously i prefer not to have anyone exposed to anyone else.  but for the sake of convience and logistics, it is not an undue burden for multiple people to have to shower together with the understanding that no one is to be the object of the unwanted sexual lusts of others while in the shower.  that's why women and men shower separately. 

duh

and fyi....the repeated donning of idiocy as a substitute for not having an argument is really getting old.

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Boris
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« Reply #89 on: December 22, 2010, 05:37:47 PM »

Why doesn't the military just use shower stalls? I mean, who the hell wants to shower with other people, gay or straight?
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Ebowed
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« Reply #90 on: December 22, 2010, 05:38:41 PM »

and fyi....the repeated donning of idiocy as a substitute for not having an argument is really getting old.

If I were interested in debating scriptural interpretations with you, then I would.  But I largely agree with your interpretation of the Bible, and as a result I cannot accept it as the basis for my own values.  That leaves me few options other than to make snarky comments, a right which I hold quite dear.

On a slightly more serious note, however, just because someone is unwilling to engage in a religious argument with you does not mean that they have no argument at all.  This is an insinuation I have seen you make numerous times over the last couple of days, and it is not healthy.
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jmfcst
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« Reply #91 on: December 22, 2010, 06:05:24 PM »
« Edited: December 22, 2010, 06:09:32 PM by jmfcst »

and fyi....the repeated donning of idiocy as a substitute for not having an argument is really getting old.

If I were interested in debating scriptural interpretations with you, then I would.  But I largely agree with your interpretation of the Bible, and as a result I cannot accept it as the basis for my own values.  That leaves me few options other than to make snarky comments, a right which I hold quite dear.

On a slightly more serious note, however, just because someone is unwilling to engage in a religious argument with you does not mean that they have no argument at all.  This is an insinuation I have seen you make numerous times over the last couple of days, and it is not healthy.

first, let me point out the logic of this forum has degraded to the point I can't tell when someone is being serious or just silly.  example, I don't know if your first paragraph is serious or not.

second, i would prefer posters simply state "i dont agree with what the bible says and therefore we are at an impasse" or "i disagree with your interpretation/application due to points a, b, c" so that the conversation can flow quickly.

but, aside from all the biblical stuff, I find it dumbfounding that we worship the altar of political correctness to the point that we rather have:
1) everyone, including children women and the elderly fondled at the airports instead of profiling, and
2) force our soldiers to accept showering with others they know are sexually attracted to their sex when the problem can be easily solved with separate showers.

it's kinda like those sick enough to advocate getting rid of separate bathrooms and going to only unisex bathrooms...it's all an attempt to kowtow to a small group of sickos who want nothing more than everyone brought down to their level.

why aren't our "leaders" standing up and simply saying:

1)  sorry, we will profile based on the most likely suspects instead of sexually harassing everyone including children at the airport
2)  sorry, we will have separate showering facilities for the sexes of our soldiers and we will subdivided them into the different sexual orientations so that no soldier serving their country has to subject his/herself to unwanted sexual lusts of others while showering
3)  sorry, no reporters in the locker rooms of the opposite sex.  better yet, the locker room is for showering and getting dressed, and the press room is for meeting the press, so that no player's privacy is violated and every reporter, regardless of sex, has access to the players in order to do the job of being a reporter
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afleitch
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« Reply #92 on: December 22, 2010, 06:11:56 PM »

I go to the gym three times a week and often shower. If the need for 'seperate showers for the gays' hasn't crossed the gym owners minds, or the gym users minds why on earth are they needed in the military?
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #93 on: December 22, 2010, 06:12:57 PM »

Personally, I think it was a good thing to repeal DADT, but it happens that I know a lot of guys and gals of various political affiliations & not one of them was bothered by the repeal... Not even the two marines... Many told me they don't know anyone who won't serve with a gay person...

So, if they're not, let it be.
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jmfcst
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« Reply #94 on: December 22, 2010, 06:19:00 PM »

I go to the gym three times a week and often shower. If the need for 'seperate showers for the gays' hasn't crossed the gym owners minds, or the gym users minds why on earth are they needed in the military?

do those in the gym showering with you know your sexual orientation?  because most people would appreciate having the choice not to shower with someone that is sexually attracted to them, just as most women don't want to have to shower with men, even if there were a clear glass divided between them to remove the threat of rape.  
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anvi
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« Reply #95 on: December 22, 2010, 07:14:56 PM »

Straight men and women have showered together with gay men and women in schools and public gyms for who knows how long, often with either a direct or tacitly assumed awareness of the various sexual orientations of the other people in the showers.  Neither society at large nor the military has fallen apart or fallen victim to an epidemic of public shower-room rapes. 

This is not Iran; it's a secular state that prizes equality of opportunity for all its citizens, and therefore should not countenance discrimination in its institutions.  That's why we should not make our phobias into laws.
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Ebowed
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« Reply #96 on: December 22, 2010, 07:16:00 PM »

If I were interested in debating scriptural interpretations with you, then I would.  But I largely agree with your interpretation of the Bible, and as a result I cannot accept it as the basis for my own values.  That leaves me few options other than to make snarky comments, a right which I hold quite dear.

first, let me point out the logic of this forum has degraded to the point I can't tell when someone is being serious or just silly.  example, I don't know if your first paragraph is serious or not.

What's not to understand?  If I were a Christian I would be quite minded to take the Bible literally, otherwise it would be pointless.  I agree that the Bible prohibits homosexuality, and a number of other victimless behaviors.  I simply disagree that it holds any legitimacy, or divinity, or whatever quality you would like to ascribe to it.
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Grumpier Than Uncle Joe
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« Reply #97 on: December 22, 2010, 07:38:36 PM »

I go to the gym three times a week and often shower. If the need for 'seperate showers for the gays' hasn't crossed the gym owners minds, or the gym users minds why on earth are they needed in the military?

do those in the gym showering with you know your sexual orientation?  because most people would appreciate having the choice not to shower with someone that is sexually attracted to them, just as most women don't want to have to shower with men, even if there were a clear glass divided between them to remove the threat of rape.  

Why do think a gay person is always attracted to every other male?  You make a false assumption which makes you look silly .
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J. J.
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« Reply #98 on: December 22, 2010, 08:05:04 PM »

I go to the gym three times a week and often shower. If the need for 'seperate showers for the gays' hasn't crossed the gym owners minds, or the gym users minds why on earth are they needed in the military?

do those in the gym showering with you know your sexual orientation?  because most people would appreciate having the choice not to shower with someone that is sexually attracted to them, just as most women don't want to have to shower with men, even if there were a clear glass divided between them to remove the threat of rape.  

I think it is more like seeing something new. 
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Brittain33
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« Reply #99 on: December 23, 2010, 09:08:03 AM »

I go to the gym three times a week and often shower. If the need for 'seperate showers for the gays' hasn't crossed the gym owners minds, or the gym users minds why on earth are they needed in the military?

do those in the gym showering with you know your sexual orientation?

The people at my gym know there are lots of gay men at the gym. It used to be a gay gym before it was bought and renovated, and now gays are a minority. But you'll find pretty much anywhere outside of Rexburg, Idaho that gay men are much more dedicated to gyms than straight men (not having kids helps you make time) and that we're there.
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