Department of Defence DADT Survey

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One needs to look at what social classes most Marines are drawn from to understand the real issue at stake. I suspect that sixty plus percent of the lower classes anywhere would poll against gay rights.

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I personally think politicians and army top brass must think so little of frontline troops that they think they will have a problem with gays.

This. The entire argument over the issue from the anti-gay side is elitist and derogatory (whether valid or not).

Elitism isn't always a bad thing on these subjects. The conservative argument in favor of DADT has been, basically, that the lowly grunt might have an issue with it. Implicit in this argument is the radically populist idea that the military ought to be a democracy.

I reject that argument. As in all things, the soldier serves with those whom he is told to serve with. His personal feelings matter not an iota in the scheme of things.

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One needs to look at what social classes most Marines are drawn from to understand the real issue at stake. I suspect that sixty plus percent of the lower classes anywhere would poll against gay rights.

Actually, most recruits seem to come from upper-to-middle-class backgrounds.  But, this has no impact on the intelligence of those recruits.  Believe me, I know -- wealthier kids are just as stupid as poor kids.  Maybe even more stupid.

Though, I picked up this information from something on the Heritage Foundation website...

For the military as a whole - which I have no problem accepting - or for the Marines?

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One needs to look at what social classes most Marines are drawn from to understand the real issue at stake. I suspect that sixty plus percent of the lower classes anywhere would poll against gay rights.

Actually, most recruits seem to come from upper-to-middle-class backgrounds.  But, this has no impact on the intelligence of those recruits.  Believe me, I know -- wealthier kids are just as stupid as poor kids.  Maybe even more stupid.

Though, I picked up this information from something on the Heritage Foundation website...

For the military as a whole - which I have no problem accepting - or for the Marines?

I thought you were an individualist?

I am. That doesn't mean that large groups of similar individuals won't act similarly. I'd still like to see the statistics on the socioeconomic background of the average Marine.

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One needs to look at what social classes most Marines are drawn from to understand the real issue at stake. I suspect that sixty plus percent of the lower classes anywhere would poll against gay rights.

Actually, most recruits seem to come from upper-to-middle-class backgrounds.  But, this has no impact on the intelligence of those recruits.  Believe me, I know -- wealthier kids are just as stupid as poor kids.  Maybe even more stupid.

Though, I picked up this information from something on the Heritage Foundation website...

For the military as a whole - which I have no problem accepting - or for the Marines?

I thought you were an individualist?

I am. That doesn't mean that large groups of similar individuals won't act similarly. I'd still like to see the statistics on the socioeconomic background of the average Marine.

http://citizencain.blogspot.com/2005/12/military-service-and-socioeconomic.html

So most military recruits are lower-middle to middle-class. Okay, and that still wouldn't remotely surprise me. But the Marines?

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So in other words Marines do often come from at least lower-middle-class backgrounds. Which perfectly explains their relative hardheadedness on this issue versus branches which recruit from higher socioeconomic classes like, say, the Air Force. That explains it, then. Their conservatism on this issue is a natural extension of the basic conservatism of the low classes.

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So in other words Marines do often come from at least lower-middle-class backgrounds. Which perfectly explains their relative hardheadedness on this issue versus branches which recruit from higher socioeconomic classes like, say, the Air Force. That explains it, then. Their conservatism on this issue is a natural extension of the basic conservatism of the low classes.

I dont see where it says that.  I think you are reaching somewhat with this class thing.  The Marine Corps is the youngest and by far most male service.  It is also the only service that has separate recruit training for men and women.  It is structured foremost as a combat, infantry branch.  As a young service, with less officers and a well ingrained macho tradition- you will invariably get  some anti-homosexual undercurrents- as you would in most football locker rooms.

I don't deny that all these demographics issues you point out play a role. But to deny the fact that the lower classes correlate strongly with the most socially conservative/socially collectivist individuals is to deny the truth. I myself would argue that the greater male population of the Marine Core and the stronger emphasis on a mob-mentality within it play a secondary role to its function as the service of choice of the poor.

So in other words Marines do often come from at least lower-middle-class backgrounds. Which perfectly explains their relative hardheadedness on this issue versus branches which recruit from higher socioeconomic classes like, say, the Air Force. That explains it, then. Their conservatism on this issue is a natural extension of the basic conservatism of the low classes.

You seem to be claiming that the richer you are, the more likely you are to be a social liberal. So tell me then, why did 63% of those voters who earned $200,000 or more vote for George W. Bush in 2004?

Economics. Few people - in fact, I'm the only one I can think of - vote primarily based on their social preferences, as and against their economic needs.