Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
September 02, 2014, 02:04:19 pm
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Don't forget to get your 2013 Gubernatorial Endorsements and Predictions in!

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  Election Archive
| |-+  2004 U.S. Presidential Election
| | |-+  2004 U.S. Presidential Election Campaign
| | | |-+  Kerry states heavily subsidize Bush states
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Print
Author Topic: Kerry states heavily subsidize Bush states  (Read 9386 times)
○∙◄☻tπ[╪AV┼cV└
jfern
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 31484


View Profile
« on: November 21, 2004, 03:03:01 am »
Ignore

The Kerry states send more money to the feds than they get back. The Bush states are welfare states. Something on the order of $200 billion a year is transfered.

Bush won 13 of the biggest 14 welfare states.
Kerry won 12 of the 14 most screwed states.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxingspending.html

Logged
DaleC76
Full Member
***
Posts: 181


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2004, 03:46:22 am »
Ignore

The only real surprises there are VA and MD.  They are two of the wealthiest states in the Union, yet both get back much more than they pay in.  I guess it has something to do with bordering DC.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2004, 03:51:16 am by DaleC76 »Logged

jimrtex
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5756
Macedonia, The Former Yugoslav Republic of


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2004, 04:25:31 am »
Ignore

The only real surprises there are VA and MD. They are two of the wealthiest states in the Union, yet both get back much more than they pay in. I guess it has something to do with bordering DC.
The study includes all spending, including things like salaries and social security benefits.  Virginia and Maryland get the benefit of federal worker salaries, as well as supplies bought from local companies.  Florida and Arizona get the benefit of Social Security benefits sent to retirees.  Other states get benefits because the federal government owns a large part of the state.

It is pretty parochial to consider spending to preserve the Grand Canyon or Yellowstone as subsidizing Arizona or Wyoming, or sending the SS check or Medicare of someone who worked in Ohio or New York for 45 years as being as subsidy of Florida, or that spending by armed forces in their base areas is a subsidy of the states where the bases are located.
Logged
○∙◄☻tπ[╪AV┼cV└
jfern
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 31484


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2004, 04:39:13 am »
Ignore

The only real surprises there are VA and MD.  They are two of the wealthiest states in the Union, yet both get back much more than they pay in.  I guess it has something to do with bordering DC.
The study includes all spending, including things like salaries and social security benefits.  Virginia and Maryland get the benefit of federal worker salaries, as well as supplies bought from local companies.  Florida and Arizona get the benefit of Social Security benefits sent to retirees.  Other states get benefits because the federal government owns a large part of the state.

It is pretty parochial to consider spending to preserve the Grand Canyon or Yellowstone as subsidizing Arizona or Wyoming, or sending the SS check or Medicare of someone who worked in Ohio or New York for 45 years as being as subsidy of Florida, or that spending by armed forces in their base areas is a subsidy of the states where the bases are located.

Spin spin spin

Logged
Sibboleth
Realpolitik
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 56446
Saint Helena


View Profile WWW
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2004, 07:00:54 am »
Ignore

Check who controls the State Legislatures in all those states before saying anything
Logged

"I have become entangled in my own data, and my conclusion stands in direct contradiction to the initial idea from which I started. Proceeding from unlimited freedom, I end with unlimited despotism. I will add, however, that there can be no solution of the social formula except mine."
dazzleman
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 13821
Political Matrix
E: 1.88, S: 1.59

View Profile
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2004, 09:11:25 am »
Ignore

Are the Democrats now going to argue that income redistribution is bad?  That was the whole point of the massive expansion of the federal government that began with the New Deal.

Democrats had no problem with this as long as the poorer states getting this money voted Democratic, as they formerly did.  It is only now that they object.

What do Democrats propose to do?  Slash taxes and allow overtaxed people in states like Connecticut to keep more of their money?
Logged
Sibboleth
Realpolitik
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 56446
Saint Helena


View Profile WWW
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2004, 09:34:34 am »
Ignore

Have a look at this everyone...

Logged

"I have become entangled in my own data, and my conclusion stands in direct contradiction to the initial idea from which I started. Proceeding from unlimited freedom, I end with unlimited despotism. I will add, however, that there can be no solution of the social formula except mine."
dazzleman
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 13821
Political Matrix
E: 1.88, S: 1.59

View Profile
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2004, 09:57:23 am »
Ignore

What do the colors mean?
Logged
Sibboleth
Realpolitik
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 56446
Saint Helena


View Profile WWW
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2004, 10:03:59 am »
Ignore

What do the colors mean?

Indicates which party controls the State Legislature (from NCSL)

Red: GOP control
Blue: Democratic control
Yellow: Divided

Note that majorities in several legislatures (Michigan for example) are small, while in other legislatures (Arkansas for example) are huge.

Interestingly, the numbers of Democratic and Republican State Reps and State Senators is as near dead even as makes no difference.
Logged

"I have become entangled in my own data, and my conclusion stands in direct contradiction to the initial idea from which I started. Proceeding from unlimited freedom, I end with unlimited despotism. I will add, however, that there can be no solution of the social formula except mine."
A18
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 23836
Political Matrix
E: 9.23, S: -6.35

View Profile
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2004, 12:09:56 pm »
Ignore

Is there a map of which party has more legislators in each state (even if it's divided control)?
Logged
DaleC76
Full Member
***
Posts: 181


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2004, 12:42:23 pm »
Ignore

I couldn't find a map, but here's the raw data:

http://www.ncsl.org/ncsldb/elect98/partcomp.cfm?yearsel=2005
Logged

○∙◄☻tπ[╪AV┼cV└
jfern
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 31484


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2004, 04:09:37 pm »
Ignore

Check who controls the State Legislatures in all those states before saying anything

Why? They don't run the federal government. The statistics I was talking about are about the federal government.
Logged
A18
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 23836
Political Matrix
E: 9.23, S: -6.35

View Profile
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2004, 04:14:06 pm »
Ignore

Bush voters in Kerry states heavily subsidize Bush states, yes. Bush voters heavily subsidize Kerry voters.
Logged
○∙◄☻tπ[╪AV┼cV└
jfern
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 31484


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2004, 04:16:06 pm »
Ignore

Bush voters in Kerry states heavily subsidize Bush states, yes. Bush voters heavily subsidize Kerry voters.

What are you talking about?
I was just talking about the states as a whole.
If you want to talk about people within a state, rich Manhattan and SF liberals get really screwed.
Logged
A18
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 23836
Political Matrix
E: 9.23, S: -6.35

View Profile
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2004, 04:18:23 pm »
Ignore

Republican millionares get really screwed. Where they live is irrelevant.
Logged
○∙◄☻tπ[╪AV┼cV└
jfern
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 31484


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2004, 04:20:27 pm »
Ignore

Republican millionares get really screwed. Where they live is irrelevant.

Not if they're defense CEOs.
Anyways, do I have to find by county numbers so that you can see that Bush's worst counties like NY and SF get really screwed even more than the state they're in?
Logged
A18
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 23836
Political Matrix
E: 9.23, S: -6.35

View Profile
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2004, 04:27:36 pm »
Ignore

Where you live is completely irrelevant. Rich people get screwed automatically for funding things they don't use/need, like public education.

And the people paying all the taxes in those areas are not necessarily Kerry voters, just because the county goes that way.
Logged
○∙◄☻tπ[╪AV┼cV└
jfern
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 31484


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2004, 04:35:13 pm »
Ignore

Where you live is completely irrelevant. Rich people get screwed automatically for funding things they don't use/need, like public education.

And the people paying all the taxes in those areas are not necessarily Kerry voters, just because the county goes that way.

I'm talking about the states as a whole. And there are a lot of wealthy Kerry voters in CA, NY, NJ, CT, MA, and so on, and a lot of poor Bush voters in the south.
Logged
A18
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 23836
Political Matrix
E: 9.23, S: -6.35

View Profile
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2004, 04:41:28 pm »
Ignore

There are also a lot of wealthy Bush voters in VA, NY, NJ, CT, MA, and son on as well.

The point is, you can't act like Democrats are carrying the tax burden for Republicans just because Bush states get more from the federal government. A lot of the cash that gets spent in those states comes from Republicans.

There are both rich Republicans and rich Democrats.
Logged
Sibboleth
Realpolitik
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 56446
Saint Helena


View Profile WWW
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2004, 05:13:02 pm »
Ignore

Check who controls the State Legislatures in all those states before saying anything

Why? They don't run the federal government. The statistics I was talking about are about the federal government.

AND?
Logged

"I have become entangled in my own data, and my conclusion stands in direct contradiction to the initial idea from which I started. Proceeding from unlimited freedom, I end with unlimited despotism. I will add, however, that there can be no solution of the social formula except mine."
12th Doctor
supersoulty
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 20702
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: 1.38, S: -1.74

View Profile
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2004, 06:02:25 pm »
Ignore

The Kerry states send more money to the feds than they get back. The Bush states are welfare states. Something on the order of $200 billion a year is transfered.

Bush won 13 of the biggest 14 welfare states.
Kerry won 12 of the 14 most screwed states.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxingspending.html



Wow!  This is only the billionth time I have heard this one.

#1  If you look at where the vast majority of military bases are concentrated, then you have found the key to this riddle.

#2 If you look where the remainder ends up, it is clear that it ends up going to minority communities who vote heavily Democratic.

I blew this myth to pieces in Sociology 101.
Logged

black and white band photos
BRTD
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 72107
Sweden


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2004, 06:03:49 pm »
Ignore

Is there a map of which party has more legislators in each state (even if it's divided control)?

that'd be pointless since legislature houses aren't equal sized. I guess you could average the percentage of each house's control of each party though.

for Minnesota, the State House after all the new members are sworn in will be 50.7% Republican and 49.3% DFL. The State Senate is 52.2% DFL, 46.3% Republican and 1.5% an Independence Party member who sits with the DFL, equaling 53.7% DFL control. That averages out to 52.2% DFL. Raw numbers will be 99 Republicans, 101 DFLers and the above mentioned Independence Party member.
Logged




01/05/2004-01/10/2014
A18
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 23836
Political Matrix
E: 9.23, S: -6.35

View Profile
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2004, 06:05:11 pm »
Ignore

Both houses vote jointly on some things. It's useful for seeing who would control what states if we still had the old Senate appointment style.
Logged
12th Doctor
supersoulty
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 20702
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: 1.38, S: -1.74

View Profile
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2004, 06:07:05 pm »
Ignore

The only real surprises there are VA and MD. They are two of the wealthiest states in the Union, yet both get back much more than they pay in. I guess it has something to do with bordering DC.
The study includes all spending, including things like salaries and social security benefits. Virginia and Maryland get the benefit of federal worker salaries, as well as supplies bought from local companies. Florida and Arizona get the benefit of Social Security benefits sent to retirees. Other states get benefits because the federal government owns a large part of the state.

It is pretty parochial to consider spending to preserve the Grand Canyon or Yellowstone as subsidizing Arizona or Wyoming, or sending the SS check or Medicare of someone who worked in Ohio or New York for 45 years as being as subsidy of Florida, or that spending by armed forces in their base areas is a subsidy of the states where the bases are located.

Spin spin spin



It's not spin, it is the truth.  I'm sorry if idiots like you and Wakie are so blinded by partisanship that you cannot except the obvious truth, even when it is undebatable.
Logged

○∙◄☻tπ[╪AV┼cV└
jfern
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 31484


View Profile
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2004, 06:12:08 pm »
Ignore

The Kerry states send more money to the feds than they get back. The Bush states are welfare states. Something on the order of $200 billion a year is transfered.

Bush won 13 of the biggest 14 welfare states.
Kerry won 12 of the 14 most screwed states.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxingspending.html



Wow!  This is only the billionth time I have heard this one.

#1  If you look at where the vast majority of military bases are concentrated, then you have found the key to this riddle.

#2 If you look where the remainder ends up, it is clear that it ends up going to minority communities who vote heavily Democratic.

I blew this myth to pieces in Sociology 101.

You blew what myth to pieces? The statistics don't lie.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines