Is It Hypocritical To Be Socially Progressive and Culturally Conservative?

[Free Palestine]

Socially progressive: Having social ideals which contradict with conservative, "traditional" values, such as supporting same-sex marriage or abortion rights.

Culturally conservative: Holding traditional cultural ideals, such as that a woman should take her husband's last name at marriage.

What I'm asking here, is if it's hypocritical to, for example, support a woman's right to choose or the right for gay couples to marry, while believing that women should probably take their husband's last name at marriage.  Is it hypocritical to reject some traditional family values, and not others?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

You need to define your terms because otherwise the question makes no real sense. No, your examples won't actually do because they don't make things any clearer. Unless you're asking a different question.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

In US speak this means "Is it hypocritical to support programs which involve welfarist intervention in the economy while opposing the watered down post-1968 "new left" notions which are now so inoffensive that they regularly make the platform of the Democratic party?"

The answer btw is no but it is a very problematic position intellectually. But then again so is modern American "liberalism" and "conservatism".

[Free Palestine]

You need to define your terms because otherwise the question makes no real sense. No, your examples won't actually do because they don't make things any clearer. Unless you're asking a different question.

Alright.

Socially progressive: Having social ideals which contradict with conservative, "traditional" values, such as supporting same-sex marriage or abortion rights.

Culturally conservative: Holding traditional cultural ideals, such as that a woman should take her husband's last name at marriage.

What I'm asking here, is if it's hypocritical to, for example, support a woman's right to choose or the right for gay couples to marry, while believing that women should probably take their husband's last name at marriage.  Is it hypocritical to reject some traditional family values, and not others?

I hope that clarifies it.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Oh okay I misunderstood the question. The answer is yes.

Though I will say I don't always consider hypocrisy to be a bad thing.

[Free Palestine]

Morgan doesn't want to get married okay, thanks for telling us that for the 500th time.

This thread has nothing to do with that.

[Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey]

You can be socially libertarian but culturally conservative. From what I've seen, a certain Dr. Ron Paul is like that...

[Free Palestine]

You can be socially libertarian but culturally conservative. From what I've seen, a certain Dr. Ron Paul is like that...

A lot of libertarians are like that, from what I've experienced.  It's sort of what led me to make this thread.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     If you supported a law to require that a woman takes their husband's last name upon marriage, then perhaps. Otherwise, not really. You can support the traditional ways without thinking that everyone must be forced to comply with them.

[dead0man]

     If you supported a law to require that a woman takes their husband's last name upon marriage, then perhaps. Otherwise, not really. You can support the traditional ways without thinking that everyone must be forced to comply with them.

ding ding ding

It doesn't matter what I think or you think or what anybody thinks on social issues, as long as we're all free to do what we want (as long as it doesn't hurt people that don't want to be hurt).  I can live the most "traditional" life (whatever that means) imaginable and still be cool with gay dudes in the Navy wanting to buy male hookers in San Diego.  I personally may reject that life style, but who the hell am I to tell somebody else how to live their life?  What makes my way "right" and their way "wrong"?  What gives me (or anyone) the right to take that away from them?

So no, it's not hypocritical at all.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Socially progressive: Having social ideals which contradict with conservative, "traditional" values, such as supporting same-sex marriage or abortion rights.

Culturally conservative: Holding traditional cultural ideals, such as that a woman should take her husband's last name at marriage.

Well, those two things are opposites (or at least supposed opposites) rather than genuinely different things. So it isn't an especially interesting question, unless I've missed something.

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Carefully ignoring the use of the word 'traditional' (and it's implications) there, of course not. In general, anyway. This is because the apparent binary of 'social progressive/cultural conservative' is an ideological construct, rather than an objective truth; it is perfectly possible to have a combination of positions on such issues that are quite consistent within a given framework, but which appear random and illogical from the point of view of your binary.

[Gustaf]

Socially progressive: Having social ideals which contradict with conservative, "traditional" values, such as supporting same-sex marriage or abortion rights.

Culturally conservative: Holding traditional cultural ideals, such as that a woman should take her husband's last name at marriage.

Well, those two things are opposites (or at least supposed opposites) rather than genuinely different things. So it isn't an especially interesting question, unless I've missed something.

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Carefully ignoring the use of the word 'traditional' (and it's implications) there, of course not. In general, anyway. This is because the apparent binary of 'social progressive/cultural conservative' is an ideological construct, rather than an objective truth; it is perfectly possible to have a combination of positions on such issues that are quite consistent within a given framework, but which appear random and illogical from the point of view of your binary.

I was going to say roughly that, but now I won't.

[The Mikado]

It's completely up to the couple in question.  The only marriage that issue would really affect would be my own hypothetical one, and I don't care one way or another.

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

     If you supported a law to require that a woman takes their husband's last name upon marriage, then perhaps. Otherwise, not really. You can support the traditional ways without thinking that everyone must be forced to comply with them.

^ I agree with this ^

I'm quite a lot like this on a number of issues. I personally believe that if you promise someone "til death do us apart" it should be til death do us apart, that doesn't however mean I want to outlaw divorce or make divorce harder. Same with surnames, I think it's proper that one of the spouses should take the others last name when they marry, I do not believe in making that the law.

It's not very strange at all actually. No more than the fact I believe that everyone who can do it is morally obliged to give blood, but I would still never support a bill that forces people to give blood.   

[nclib]

It's not hypocritical to live a "traditional" lifestyle and prefer others to do the same, yet respect the rights of others to not do so.

As for following some traditions but not others, it's not hypocritical as long as you aren't following the traditions you accept, solely for the fact it's a tradition. I abhor the tradition of women taking their husband's name, and realize that plenty of generally non-traditional women do this, citing tradition. I would certainly prefer such women to keep their name, but perhaps they could have practical reasons why they decided that tradition is worth following.

Can someone elaborate on what else would be considered socially progressive but culturally conservative, or is it simply a question of beliefs regarding the law vs. beliefs regarding customs?

[RIP Robert H Bork]

Aren't they the same thing? I mean, it's "family values" either way, and the terms "social conservative" and "cultural conservative" ARE used interchangeably, no?

[Associate Justice PiT]

Aren't they the same thing? I mean, it's "family values" either way, and the terms "social conservative" and "cultural conservative" ARE used interchangeably, no?

     I generally view those terms in the manner that nclib suggested in the final sentence of his post; in other words, that social views are beliefs about the law whereas cultural views are beliefs about customs. I would consider myself fairly conservative in a cultural sense, but socially ultra-liberal.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Oh okay I misunderstood the question. The answer is yes.

Though I will say I don't always consider hypocrisy to be a bad thing.

Paradox is interesting; hypocrisy is disease.

That depends on where draw the boundaries. Though in general I agree.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Oh okay I misunderstood the question. The answer is yes.

Though I will say I don't always consider hypocrisy to be a bad thing.

Paradox is interesting; hypocrisy is disease.

That depends on where draw the boundaries. Though in general I agree.

The fun thing about hypocrisy is that the boundaries are usually fairly obvious; so long as someone isn't trying to find hypocrisy.

[Hatman 🍁]

I'm culturally conservative, but am very progressive. Having said that, the examples you used are contradictory. Believing women should take their husband's last name is not progressive at all. However, believing that a family unit should have the same last name can be progressive and culturally conservative. (i.e. everyone adopting a hyphenated name, not having the wife or husband keeping just their surname)

Being culturally conservative isn't about politics.  Use the site "stuff white people like" as a barometre for being culturally liberal. Whether or not you like coffee for example has nothing to do with politics (it gets political when you start thinking about where the coffee came from, though)