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Author Topic: Petition to let Einzige stay  (Read 4883 times)
Torie
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« Reply #75 on: January 04, 2011, 04:11:45 am »
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It is sad that this is such a divisive issue on this Forum from individuals on both sides whom I totally respect. Maybe we should see what ensues with the "born again" E man, and then cast stones if justified by ensuing events. Just a thought.

Yes, I can be both a hard ass and a softy; the ying and the yang. I don't fully understand it myself, but I have more important things to understand before I assume room temperature than this matter.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2011, 04:14:40 am by Torie »Logged

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« Reply #76 on: January 04, 2011, 06:04:55 am »
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Who said you're mentally ill? Depending on who it was, I don't know how seriously I'd take it...
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Gustaf
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« Reply #77 on: January 04, 2011, 07:11:41 am »
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Who said you're mentally ill? Depending on who it was, I don't know how seriously I'd take it...

I think I know what this refers to and it wasn't me, contrary to what most people would guess.

But I think this was just a system glitch. It makes no sense to just allow banned posters to come back on a whim.
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« Reply #78 on: January 04, 2011, 08:50:20 am »
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Really.. is Einzige such a threat to the Atlas forum that he must be muted and banned at all costs?  His rhetoric can be very strong... but I've seen people punished far less for much more egregious offenses.

This ^^^^^^^^^
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« Reply #79 on: January 04, 2011, 09:03:23 am »
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Who said you're mentally ill? Depending on who it was, I don't know how seriously I'd take it...

I think I know what this refers to and it wasn't me, contrary to what most people would guess.

But I think this was just a system glitch. It makes no sense to just allow banned posters to come back on a whim.

Then you don't understand who's running this place.

Fact is, the decision to keep Einzige banned should have nothing to do with the threat he poses, but is rather in keeping with the premise that a permanent ban is an extreme event, only to be made upon careful thought and reflection of a poster's activity.

As far as I'm concerned, if Einzige is let back in, then we must assume that every ban is a temporary ban and any poster can return, subject to the whim of our forum host.

Of course, I doubt I'll be around long enough to determine whether that is, in fact, the case, if it is.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #80 on: January 04, 2011, 09:26:28 am »
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Really.. is Einzige such a threat to the Atlas forum that he must be muted and banned at all costs?  His rhetoric can be very strong... but I've seen people punished far less for much more egregious offenses.

This ^^^^^^^^^

It's really not about being a threat or not. You don't punish people based on how much of a threat they are.

To use the classic and obvious analogy, how much of a threat did, say, Goering pose to the world after the fall of Nazi Germany?

This is an internet forum which has a ToS. If you break them to an insane degree you get banned. It isn't about impact.
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« Reply #81 on: January 04, 2011, 11:03:04 am »
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Really.. is Einzige such a threat to the Atlas forum that he must be muted and banned at all costs?  His rhetoric can be very strong... but I've seen people punished far less for much more egregious offenses.

This ^^^^^^^^^

It's really not about being a threat or not. You don't punish people based on how much of a threat they are.

To use the classic and obvious analogy, how much of a threat did, say, Goering pose to the world after the fall of Nazi Germany?

This is an internet forum which has a ToS. If you break them to an insane degree you get banned. It isn't about impact.
Though I agree with all of what Snowguy said, its really the second sentance in that quote you and the other mods should focus on.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #82 on: January 04, 2011, 11:21:11 am »
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Really.. is Einzige such a threat to the Atlas forum that he must be muted and banned at all costs?  His rhetoric can be very strong... but I've seen people punished far less for much more egregious offenses.

This ^^^^^^^^^

It's really not about being a threat or not. You don't punish people based on how much of a threat they are.

To use the classic and obvious analogy, how much of a threat did, say, Goering pose to the world after the fall of Nazi Germany?

This is an internet forum which has a ToS. If you break them to an insane degree you get banned. It isn't about impact.
Though I agree with all of what Snowguy said, its really the second sentance in that quote you and the other mods should focus on.

Do you have any examples? And Einzige's insane rants are pretty hard to beat...also, creating a sock account to troll is a pretty egregious offense.
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« Reply #83 on: January 04, 2011, 12:00:06 pm »
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Einzige is back!  We won!
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« Reply #84 on: January 04, 2011, 02:52:08 pm »
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Einzige is back!  We won!

The auto-mute the mods can do without Dave only lasts a week... we haven't done it a second time yet.
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« Reply #85 on: January 04, 2011, 02:58:04 pm »
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Okay, it's done now. Thanks for the reminder though Morgan! Grin
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« Reply #86 on: January 04, 2011, 03:44:09 pm »
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To clarify what is happening... most moderators believe my initial prognosis of Dave unmuting Ziggy was incorrect, and that it was automatic.  With that in mind, BK has remuted him with a single infraction.

Sorry for all the confusion, i'm confused too.
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Grumps
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« Reply #87 on: January 04, 2011, 03:49:12 pm »
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There is no confusion......dickish muting is dickish muting.  JMO.
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Lunar
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« Reply #88 on: January 04, 2011, 04:16:56 pm »
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There is no confusion......dickish muting is dickish muting.  JMO.

Don't you believe in the death penalty? 

I guess we might just differ as a group on how permanent bans should be.
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« Reply #89 on: January 04, 2011, 04:50:38 pm »
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Really.. is Einzige such a threat to the Atlas forum that he must be muted and banned at all costs?  His rhetoric can be very strong... but I've seen people punished far less for much more egregious offenses.

This ^^^^^^^^^

It's really not about being a threat or not. You don't punish people based on how much of a threat they are.

To use the classic and obvious analogy, how much of a threat did, say, Goering pose to the world after the fall of Nazi Germany?

This is an internet forum which has a ToS. If you break them to an insane degree you get banned. It isn't about impact.
Though I agree with all of what Snowguy said, its really the second sentance in that quote you and the other mods should focus on.

Do you have any examples? And Einzige's insane rants are pretty hard to beat...also, creating a sock account to troll is a pretty egregious offense.
Well 1st off, his new account has in no way trolled. And secondly yes, people have friggan hacked accounts and only gotten a temp ban, while he uses the wrong choice of words and has the book thrown at him.
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Lunar
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« Reply #90 on: January 04, 2011, 04:57:12 pm »
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Well 1st off, his new account has in no way trolled.

His new account is his 3rd one that we know of.  His 2nd one, the one that spouted pro-Christian rants (despite Enzige being an anti-theist) fits pretty much the very definition of trolling.  We banned that one though, with little fanfare.
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Sam Spade
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« Reply #91 on: January 04, 2011, 05:01:34 pm »
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Really.. is Einzige such a threat to the Atlas forum that he must be muted and banned at all costs?  His rhetoric can be very strong... but I've seen people punished far less for much more egregious offenses.

This ^^^^^^^^^

It's really not about being a threat or not. You don't punish people based on how much of a threat they are.

To use the classic and obvious analogy, how much of a threat did, say, Goering pose to the world after the fall of Nazi Germany?

This is an internet forum which has a ToS. If you break them to an insane degree you get banned. It isn't about impact.
Though I agree with all of what Snowguy said, its really the second sentance in that quote you and the other mods should focus on.

Do you have any examples? And Einzige's insane rants are pretty hard to beat...also, creating a sock account to troll is a pretty egregious offense.
Well 1st off, his new account has in no way trolled. And secondly yes, people have friggan hacked accounts and only gotten a temp ban, while he uses the wrong choice of words and has the book thrown at him.

Yes, Xahar should have been banned.  That was a real epic mistake on Dave Leip's part, for sure.  But that's a strawman argument concerning Einzige.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #92 on: January 04, 2011, 05:41:35 pm »
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Really.. is Einzige such a threat to the Atlas forum that he must be muted and banned at all costs?  His rhetoric can be very strong... but I've seen people punished far less for much more egregious offenses.

This ^^^^^^^^^

It's really not about being a threat or not. You don't punish people based on how much of a threat they are.

To use the classic and obvious analogy, how much of a threat did, say, Goering pose to the world after the fall of Nazi Germany?

This is an internet forum which has a ToS. If you break them to an insane degree you get banned. It isn't about impact.
Though I agree with all of what Snowguy said, its really the second sentance in that quote you and the other mods should focus on.

Do you have any examples? And Einzige's insane rants are pretty hard to beat...also, creating a sock account to troll is a pretty egregious offense.
Well 1st off, his new account has in no way trolled. And secondly yes, people have friggan hacked accounts and only gotten a temp ban, while he uses the wrong choice of words and has the book thrown at him.

You missed the sock account he brought in between this one and the one before. He pretended to be a religious conservative, IIRC.

Also, calling people fat cocksuckers and other such insults isn't the wrong choice of words.
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The Mikado
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« Reply #93 on: January 04, 2011, 06:27:22 pm »
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It doesn't matter if he has trolled or done anything wrong on this account.  The point is that he is banned from this website until Dave Leip says otherwise.  To act any differently would undermine the entire system.
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« Reply #94 on: January 04, 2011, 07:44:30 pm »
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Well 1st off, his new account has in no way trolled.

His new account is his 3rd one that we know of.  His 2nd one, the one that spouted pro-Christian rants (despite Enzige being an anti-theist) fits pretty much the very definition of trolling.  We banned that one though, with little fanfare.

Did we ever get confirmation that the Christian was actually Einzige?
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« Reply #95 on: January 04, 2011, 07:48:03 pm »
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Well 1st off, his new account has in no way trolled.

His new account is his 3rd one that we know of.  His 2nd one, the one that spouted pro-Christian rants (despite Enzige being an anti-theist) fits pretty much the very definition of trolling.  We banned that one though, with little fanfare.

Did we ever get confirmation that the Christian was actually Einzige?

IP match
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Bacon King
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« Reply #96 on: January 05, 2011, 02:44:52 am »
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Look, everyone, it boils down to this: Einzige has been, previously, permanently banned from this forum. For evading this permaban he is currently under a "mute" pending Dave's review. Dave is busy with his real life now so action has been a bit slow here.

Has Einzige been reasonable with his newest username? As far as I've payed attention (not too closely), yes, pretty much. But he was permanently banned by the owner of this forum for the action's of his earlier account(s), and any decision to rescind that ban could only come from Dave himself.

Is the muting thing a bit ridiculous? Yes, but it's all the mods can do until Dave makes a call here.
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« Reply #97 on: January 06, 2011, 10:26:30 am »
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He has been banned.
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Grumps
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« Reply #98 on: January 06, 2011, 10:32:12 am »
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He has been banned.

Congrats
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« Reply #99 on: January 06, 2011, 10:33:49 am »
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I really don't have strong feelings on the matter... just announcing what I noticed. Wink
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