The Abolition Movement: The Quest to End Regional Inactivity and Indifference

[Marokai Backbeat]

Although I guess it is true that ballot initiatives would be better than an elected regional legislature. The ideal method would be a universal assembly, like the Pacific (sort of still) has.

In regards to attacking Regional Legislatures, I have to disagree.  They have served a valuable purpose - they help get new members/members who have been away for a while an opportunity to get involved.  After my year long exile into the wilderness, I was able to begin rehabilitating myself by serving in the Mideast Legislature.  Valuable members like A-Bob and Purple State started in the Assembly.  Without Legislatures I don't think it would be as easy for newbies to get involved, and I see that as one of the big advantages to having elected bodies other than the National ones.

     Ben is quite correct here. Regional legislatures are a great source of experience for new Atlasians. Granted there are also Governorships & Lt. Governorships, but without legislatures those tend to be worthless sinecures. Granted some exceptional individuals have managed to put those offices to good use under those circumstances (Vepres, for example), but that aside they tend to make for a poor first experience in Atlasia.

Regional governor and Lt Governor positions, and I agree with you. But nothing is really gained from an elected legislature, in my opinion. The Mideast is the best one, if you're only talking about elected legislatures, but the Southeast and the Northeast have left much to be desired. Nothing you gain in an elected regional legislature couldn't be gained in a universalist one.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Although I guess it is true that ballot initiatives would be better than an elected regional legislature. The ideal method would be a universal assembly, like the Pacific (sort of still) has.

In regards to attacking Regional Legislatures, I have to disagree.  They have served a valuable purpose - they help get new members/members who have been away for a while an opportunity to get involved.  After my year long exile into the wilderness, I was able to begin rehabilitating myself by serving in the Mideast Legislature.  Valuable members like A-Bob and Purple State started in the Assembly.  Without Legislatures I don't think it would be as easy for newbies to get involved, and I see that as one of the big advantages to having elected bodies other than the National ones.

     Ben is quite correct here. Regional legislatures are a great source of experience for new Atlasians. Granted there are also Governorships & Lt. Governorships, but without legislatures those tend to be worthless sinecures. Granted some exceptional individuals have managed to put those offices to good use under those circumstances (Vepres, for example), but that aside they tend to make for a poor first experience in Atlasia.

Regional governor and Lt Governor positions, and I agree with you. But nothing is really gained from an elected legislature, in my opinion. The Mideast is the best one, if you're only talking about elected legislatures, but the Southeast and the Northeast have left much to be desired. Nothing you gain in an elected regional legislature couldn't be gained in a universalist one.

Northeast worked fine until... well, you all know what I mean.

[tmthforu94]

Regional legislatures are an awesome way to get people involved in Atlasia. Normally people will be more active if they have a position or title, some sort of responsibility. This gives them just that. We've had some great members get their start in the Assembly and go on to even be President! The Mideast's has been going on for some time, but it'll hopefully begin working the same way in the other 3 regions that have elected legislatures. It worries me that some of our most influential members are suggesting that they're useless.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Regional legislatures are an awesome way to get people involved in Atlasia. Normally people will be more active if they have a position or title, some sort of responsibility. This gives them just that. We've had some great members get their start in the Assembly and go on to even be President!

You're 100% right. I can personally testify about that.

[tmthforu94]

Regional legislatures are an awesome way to get people involved in Atlasia. Normally people will be more active if they have a position or title, some sort of responsibility. This gives them just that. We've had some great members get their start in the Assembly and go on to even be President!

You're 100% right. I can personally testify about that.

Yes, you are a great example. I mean, I even got my start in the Assembly (though I was promoted to Senate a couple days later due to a vacancy). Some of our greatest Atlasians were in the Assembly, such as Purple State, HappyWarrior, Franzl, Peter, and Badger. I mean seriously, for all we know, Badger may never have gotten as active and productive to the game as he is now if he hadn't had that opportunity to serve in an elected legislature.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Regional legislatures are an awesome way to get people involved in Atlasia. Normally people will be more active if they have a position or title, some sort of responsibility. This gives them just that. We've had some great members get their start in the Assembly and go on to even be President! The Mideast's has been going on for some time, but it'll hopefully begin working the same way in the other 3 regions that have elected legislatures. It worries me that some of our most influential members are suggesting that they're useless.

This is true and I really regret I wasn't able to convince fellow Midwesterns to do it. Well, at least we have Althing.

[Yelnoc]

Although I guess it is true that ballot initiatives would be better than an elected regional legislature. The ideal method would be a universal assembly, like the Pacific (sort of still) has.

In regards to attacking Regional Legislatures, I have to disagree.  They have served a valuable purpose - they help get new members/members who have been away for a while an opportunity to get involved.  After my year long exile into the wilderness, I was able to begin rehabilitating myself by serving in the Mideast Legislature.  Valuable members like A-Bob and Purple State started in the Assembly.  Without Legislatures I don't think it would be as easy for newbies to get involved, and I see that as one of the big advantages to having elected bodies other than the National ones.

     Ben is quite correct here. Regional legislatures are a great source of experience for new Atlasians. Granted there are also Governorships & Lt. Governorships, but without legislatures those tend to be worthless sinecures. Granted some exceptional individuals have managed to put those offices to good use under those circumstances (Vepres, for example), but that aside they tend to make for a poor first experience in Atlasia.

Regional governor and Lt Governor positions, and I agree with you. But nothing is really gained from an elected legislature, in my opinion. The Mideast is the best one, if you're only talking about elected legislatures, but the Southeast and the Northeast have left much to be desired. Nothing you gain in an elected regional legislature couldn't be gained in a universalist one.

The problem with the southeast is that the only people in the region who are active, besides our senators, are myself, KS21, and PiT.  The three of us cannot run a regional government.  This is why I am not totally against what you people call "strategic registration" when the purpose has nothing to do with parties and everything to do with keeping the regions active.  The inactivity is why I am not ruling out the lower house that Agooji proposes replacing it with; this would put the more active junior members in one chamber rather than splitting them up in five separate ones and creating situations where some of us end up talking to ourselves most days of a given month.

[Associate Justice PiT]

Although I guess it is true that ballot initiatives would be better than an elected regional legislature. The ideal method would be a universal assembly, like the Pacific (sort of still) has.

In regards to attacking Regional Legislatures, I have to disagree.  They have served a valuable purpose - they help get new members/members who have been away for a while an opportunity to get involved.  After my year long exile into the wilderness, I was able to begin rehabilitating myself by serving in the Mideast Legislature.  Valuable members like A-Bob and Purple State started in the Assembly.  Without Legislatures I don't think it would be as easy for newbies to get involved, and I see that as one of the big advantages to having elected bodies other than the National ones.

     Ben is quite correct here. Regional legislatures are a great source of experience for new Atlasians. Granted there are also Governorships & Lt. Governorships, but without legislatures those tend to be worthless sinecures. Granted some exceptional individuals have managed to put those offices to good use under those circumstances (Vepres, for example), but that aside they tend to make for a poor first experience in Atlasia.

Regional governor and Lt Governor positions, and I agree with you. But nothing is really gained from an elected legislature, in my opinion. The Mideast is the best one, if you're only talking about elected legislatures, but the Southeast and the Northeast have left much to be desired. Nothing you gain in an elected regional legislature couldn't be gained in a universalist one.

     The problem with a universalist legislature is that it fails to introduce members properly to the elections aspect of the game. It is my opinion that elections should be the marquee aspect of the game, but the problem that arises is that people are too unwilling to run against people they like & popular incumbents.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Regional legislatures are an awesome way to get people involved in Atlasia. Normally people will be more active if they have a position or title, some sort of responsibility. This gives them just that. We've had some great members get their start in the Assembly and go on to even be President! The Mideast's has been going on for some time, but it'll hopefully begin working the same way in the other 3 regions that have elected legislatures. It worries me that some of our most influential members are suggesting that they're useless.

do they really do such a great job of this when the same old people keep getting elected ?

[Associate Justice PiT]

Regional legislatures are an awesome way to get people involved in Atlasia. Normally people will be more active if they have a position or title, some sort of responsibility. This gives them just that. We've had some great members get their start in the Assembly and go on to even be President! The Mideast's has been going on for some time, but it'll hopefully begin working the same way in the other 3 regions that have elected legislatures. It worries me that some of our most influential members are suggesting that they're useless.

do they really do such a great job of this when the same old people keep getting elected ?

     Most new members do not look for offices to run for unprompted. During my brief tenure as Emperor of the IDS, I have made a point of trying to recruit newer members to run for various offices in the region.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Most of us started our Atlasian careers in regional governments. It's a wonderful way to get new members involved and serves as a launching pad to a federal position. It would be a travesty to see them done away with.

[Purple State]

I've addressed this so many times, but I think the content of the original post speaks volumes of how much improvement we have seen in the regions over the past year or so.

The fact that we can say that the regional legislatures are inactive means that all the regions have legislative bodies... That is an amazing thing never before seen in Atlasia. We also see regional laws used as the foundation for federal laws on a frequent basis.

Also, as I have always argued, again and again, the region is where new citizens get their chops. It is how people are introduced to the game and build a resume that can be used to run for federal office or higher regional office. It is also how the voters are able to distinguish between those who deserve to be promoted and those who are do-nothings.

I am a result of the regional system. Badger is another excellent example. The regions are where people with no previous reputation can build a name and become something great. To do away with them would be a terrible mistake.

[ilikeverin]

Although I guess it is true that ballot initiatives would be better than an elected regional legislature. The ideal method would be a universal assembly, like the Pacific (sort of still) has.

...and the Midwest has, not even "sort of".

Honestly, did we institute a universal parliamentary-style legislature with no one else noticing?  The fact that regional affairs are so manifestly ignored in other regions is argument enough for me

[Associate Justice PiT]

Although I guess it is true that ballot initiatives would be better than an elected regional legislature. The ideal method would be a universal assembly, like the Pacific (sort of still) has.

...and the Midwest has, not even "sort of".

Honestly, did we institute a universal parliamentary-style legislature with no one else noticing?  The fact that regional affairs are so manifestly ignored in other regions is argument enough for me

     In that case we should abolish the federal government too, given that federal affairs are ignored by everyone.

[ilikeverin]

Although I guess it is true that ballot initiatives would be better than an elected regional legislature. The ideal method would be a universal assembly, like the Pacific (sort of still) has.

...and the Midwest has, not even "sort of".

Honestly, did we institute a universal parliamentary-style legislature with no one else noticing?  The fact that regional affairs are so manifestly ignored in other regions is argument enough for me

     In that case we should abolish the federal government too, given that federal affairs are ignored by everyone.

Abolish everything!  Everyone is their own country!

... ... ...!

[The Artist Formerly Known As and Now Again Known As Ogis]

I've addressed this so many times, but I think the content of the original post speaks volumes of how much improvement we have seen in the regions over the past year or so.

The fact that we can say that the regional legislatures are inactive means that all the regions have legislative bodies... That is an amazing thing never before seen in Atlasia. We also see regional laws used as the foundation for federal laws on a frequent basis.

Also, as I have always argued, again and again, the region is where new citizens get their chops. It is how people are introduced to the game and build a resume that can be used to run for federal office or higher regional office. It is also how the voters are able to distinguish between those who deserve to be promoted and those who are do-nothings.

I am a result of the regional system. Badger is another excellent example. The regions are where people with no previous reputation can build a name and become something great. To do away with them would be a terrible mistake.

You are absolutely right in the sense that there needs to be a way to slowly integrate new people into the fold and thus allow them to become productive members of society all the while. I think this goal is achieved by the Lower House of my proposal. This would allow newer members who haven't quite yet broken the "upper crust" of posters by still providing meaningful legislation to debate upon at a national level. This improves upon the status quo by creating a consistency throughout the nation in local legislation, not a system in which there are five different types of legislatures in the five different regions.


Also, look at all the names that are being thrown around as becoming "important" members of Atlasia through regional government. How many of them came from the Mideast? The Abolition plan expands the very successful Mideast Assembly into a national Lower House. Sure there is room for the pedantic and the detractors, but even a taste of a fivefold increase in newbie "integration" is quite alluring. Regional legislatures are not disappearing; instead, they are being replaced by a consistent national body which could produce similar results on a larger scale.

[Associate Justice PiT]

I've addressed this so many times, but I think the content of the original post speaks volumes of how much improvement we have seen in the regions over the past year or so.

The fact that we can say that the regional legislatures are inactive means that all the regions have legislative bodies... That is an amazing thing never before seen in Atlasia. We also see regional laws used as the foundation for federal laws on a frequent basis.

Also, as I have always argued, again and again, the region is where new citizens get their chops. It is how people are introduced to the game and build a resume that can be used to run for federal office or higher regional office. It is also how the voters are able to distinguish between those who deserve to be promoted and those who are do-nothings.

I am a result of the regional system. Badger is another excellent example. The regions are where people with no previous reputation can build a name and become something great. To do away with them would be a terrible mistake.

You are absolutely right in the sense that there needs to be a way to slowly integrate new people into the fold and thus allow them to become productive members of society all the while. I think this goal is achieved by the Lower House of my proposal. This would allow newer members who haven't quite yet broken the "upper crust" of posters by still providing meaningful legislation to debate upon at a national level. This improves upon the status quo by creating a consistency throughout the nation in local legislation, not a system in which there are five different types of legislatures in the five different regions.


Also, look at all the names that are being thrown around as becoming "important" members of Atlasia through regional government. How many of them came from the Mideast? The Abolition plan expands the very successful Mideast Assembly into a national Lower House. Sure there is room for the pedantic and the detractors, but even a taste of a fivefold increase in newbie "integration" is quite alluring. Regional legislatures are not disappearing; instead, they are being replaced by a consistent national body which could produce similar results on a larger scale.

     The Imperial Legislature has been quite effective at initiating newbies in Atlasia as well. In my time, I have seen at least three different newbies (tb75, Yelnoc, KS21) become active officeholders in the South due in no small part to the regional legislature. They are merely lesser-known than the heroes of the Mideast Assembly because none of them have yet ascended to federal office, but I am confident that each one of them could make the leap if he so chose.

[The Artist Formerly Known As and Now Again Known As Ogis]

I've addressed this so many times, but I think the content of the original post speaks volumes of how much improvement we have seen in the regions over the past year or so.

The fact that we can say that the regional legislatures are inactive means that all the regions have legislative bodies... That is an amazing thing never before seen in Atlasia. We also see regional laws used as the foundation for federal laws on a frequent basis.

Also, as I have always argued, again and again, the region is where new citizens get their chops. It is how people are introduced to the game and build a resume that can be used to run for federal office or higher regional office. It is also how the voters are able to distinguish between those who deserve to be promoted and those who are do-nothings.

I am a result of the regional system. Badger is another excellent example. The regions are where people with no previous reputation can build a name and become something great. To do away with them would be a terrible mistake.

You are absolutely right in the sense that there needs to be a way to slowly integrate new people into the fold and thus allow them to become productive members of society all the while. I think this goal is achieved by the Lower House of my proposal. This would allow newer members who haven't quite yet broken the "upper crust" of posters by still providing meaningful legislation to debate upon at a national level. This improves upon the status quo by creating a consistency throughout the nation in local legislation, not a system in which there are five different types of legislatures in the five different regions.


Also, look at all the names that are being thrown around as becoming "important" members of Atlasia through regional government. How many of them came from the Mideast? The Abolition plan expands the very successful Mideast Assembly into a national Lower House. Sure there is room for the pedantic and the detractors, but even a taste of a fivefold increase in newbie "integration" is quite alluring. Regional legislatures are not disappearing; instead, they are being replaced by a consistent national body which could produce similar results on a larger scale.

     The Imperial Legislature has been quite effective at initiating newbies in Atlasia as well. In my time, I have seen at least three different newbies (tb75, Yelnoc, KS21) become active officeholders in the South due in no small part to the regional legislature. They are merely lesser-known than the heroes of the Mideast Assembly because none of them have yet ascended to federal office, but I am confident that each one of them could make the leap if he so chose.

I agree that the assemblies of most other regions have allowed for the initiation of some members, but the Mideast Assembly has been by far the most effective and most worthy of replication at a national level. At the same time, the crux of the newbie issue isn't how many newbies have been integrated by each Assembly on its own, but the marginal utility of creating one national assembly to serve the same purpose on a larger and more consistent scale. I think that it is far more beneficial to make it national so newbies from any region can ascend to the national spotlight.

[Purple State]

Exactly what PiT said.

Also, there is something to committing to a strategy and letting it play out. It seems that every few months we see a lower chamber proposed to replace the regions, but that argument gets weaker as efforts to strengthen regional activity through other means are implemented. Changing horses midrace seems less and less appealing.

The case could have been made a year or two ago that regions were a meaningless piece of the game. That really isn't the case today. Let's see where the revitalized regions take us before we throw them under the bus.

[The Artist Formerly Known As and Now Again Known As Ogis]

Exactly what PiT said.

Also, there is something to committing to a strategy and letting it play out. It seems that every few months we see a lower chamber proposed to replace the regions, but that argument gets weaker as efforts to strengthen regional activity through other means are implemented. Changing horses midrace seems less and less appealing.

The case could have been made a year or two ago that regions were a meaningless piece of the game. That really isn't the case today. Let's see where the revitalized regions take us before we throw them under the bus.

The case I'm making is that we aren't losing anything by disposing of the regions. This isn't a case of switching horses but rather feeding it a different type of nutrient-rich water for the stretch run after we observed that it was tiring.

[Purple State]

Exactly what PiT said.

Also, there is something to committing to a strategy and letting it play out. It seems that every few months we see a lower chamber proposed to replace the regions, but that argument gets weaker as efforts to strengthen regional activity through other means are implemented. Changing horses midrace seems less and less appealing.

The case could have been made a year or two ago that regions were a meaningless piece of the game. That really isn't the case today. Let's see where the revitalized regions take us before we throw them under the bus.

The case I'm making is that we aren't losing anything by disposing of the regions. This isn't a case of switching horses but rather feeding it a different type of nutrient-rich water for the stretch run after we observed that it was tiring.

Your idea might work, but we have no idea whether it will be the greatest boon to the game or whether it will kill the game. On the other hand, regions have proven to be a steady and reliable means of introducing new players to the game. Are they perfect? Surely not. Is there a better alternative? There always is. But I feel the risks involved in most of the proposed ideas is such that it far outweighs the benefits of switching.

Reform is only truly needed when something is broken or an alternative is clearly better. Until you prove that the regions are truly broken (which cannot be argued right now) or that your idea is proven to be beneficial (which is only possible by testing it in a region or two, partially boosting the opposing view), I can't get behind it.

[The Artist Formerly Known As and Now Again Known As Ogis]

Exactly what PiT said.

Also, there is something to committing to a strategy and letting it play out. It seems that every few months we see a lower chamber proposed to replace the regions, but that argument gets weaker as efforts to strengthen regional activity through other means are implemented. Changing horses midrace seems less and less appealing.

The case could have been made a year or two ago that regions were a meaningless piece of the game. That really isn't the case today. Let's see where the revitalized regions take us before we throw them under the bus.

The case I'm making is that we aren't losing anything by disposing of the regions. This isn't a case of switching horses but rather feeding it a different type of nutrient-rich water for the stretch run after we observed that it was tiring.

Your idea might work, but we have no idea whether it will be the greatest boon to the game or whether it will kill the game. On the other hand, regions have proven to be a steady and reliable means of introducing new players to the game. Are they perfect? Surely not. Is there a better alternative? There always is. But I feel the risks involved in most of the proposed ideas is such that it far outweighs the benefits of switching.

Reform is only truly needed when something is broken or an alternative is clearly better. Until you prove that the regions are truly broken (which cannot be argued right now) or that your idea is proven to be beneficial (which is only possible by testing it in a region or two, partially boosting the opposing view), I can't get behind it.

Regardless, this is a conversation Atlasia needs to have when disputes are springing up like mushrooms after a rainstorm.

[Purple State]

Exactly what PiT said.

Also, there is something to committing to a strategy and letting it play out. It seems that every few months we see a lower chamber proposed to replace the regions, but that argument gets weaker as efforts to strengthen regional activity through other means are implemented. Changing horses midrace seems less and less appealing.

The case could have been made a year or two ago that regions were a meaningless piece of the game. That really isn't the case today. Let's see where the revitalized regions take us before we throw them under the bus.

The case I'm making is that we aren't losing anything by disposing of the regions. This isn't a case of switching horses but rather feeding it a different type of nutrient-rich water for the stretch run after we observed that it was tiring.

Your idea might work, but we have no idea whether it will be the greatest boon to the game or whether it will kill the game. On the other hand, regions have proven to be a steady and reliable means of introducing new players to the game. Are they perfect? Surely not. Is there a better alternative? There always is. But I feel the risks involved in most of the proposed ideas is such that it far outweighs the benefits of switching.

Reform is only truly needed when something is broken or an alternative is clearly better. Until you prove that the regions are truly broken (which cannot be argued right now) or that your idea is proven to be beneficial (which is only possible by testing it in a region or two, partially boosting the opposing view), I can't get behind it.

Regardless, this is a conversation Atlasia needs to have when disputes are springing up like mushrooms after a rainstorm.

Oh don't get me wrong, I love these conversations. The more real discussions we have on a range of topics the better it is for the game. That's why I keep responding.

I've always seen promise in the regions and it is rewarding to see the progress the regions have made since I joined the game and the considerable benefit this has provided for the game. There is certainly room for discussions of alternatives, but understand that it will take quite a bit of convincing for me to change my mind (and I'm probably the least ideological supporter of regions in the game, so best of luck ).