14 States may target birthright citizenship

[Keystone Phil]

Fezzy's family is rather well off. Big house in Central New Jersey. See what I'm getting at? Any wonder why he'd hold this position?

[fezzyfestoon]

Yes cramped classrooms and hospital emergency rooms will really help increase the approval ratings of Hispanics.

...or we could properly fund those?

Are you willing to pay?

I think the defense department is in a better position to do so.

Yes cramped classrooms and hospital emergency rooms will really help increase the approval ratings of Hispanics.

...or we could properly fund those?

Are you willing to pay?

I was going to ask if they were willing to come to the Sun Belt to experience how dire the problem is.

I live in New Jersey and North Carolina, I'm fully aware of what it's like to live around immigrants.

Is this kid for real? You really are that oblivious? You're using the "nation of immigrants" argument? Thanks, Fezzy. I, of all people, am not aware that we are a nation of immigrants.  

This is about legal vs. illegal immigration.

No, it's not.  If that were the issue, it would be solved by now.  Arizona can feel free to use all its money to send the Mexicans back where they belong if that's really the root of the issue.  But the fact of the matter is that they're here and they have legal rights.  If we're going to change a law, why don't we repeal the ones in place that made it so difficult to come here and become a legitimate part of the country and economy?  They're breaking a bullsh**t law to come here and the states would be breaking the law to deny them their rights.  Who's more wrong?  The people trying to survive or the government bitching about the costs?  If it's about the money, there are SO MANY things we're doing that aren't benefiting anyone that we can cut first.  This being the highest money related priority clearly indicates it's not really about the money.  Ignoring that and deriding me for pointing it out is easily the most intellectually dishonest thing I've heard on here in a long time.  I don't blame you or anyone on here, the issue is being forced down our throats.

[fezzyfestoon]

Fezzy's family is rather well off. Big house in Central New Jersey. See what I'm getting at? Any wonder why he'd hold this position?

Jesus Christ, what on Earth makes you so damn fixated with ME?  I'm not having this retarded conversation again.  Are you really that incapable of debating the ISSUE rather than the person?  I simply WILL NOT have a conversation about myself or you, ever, under any circumstances.

[Keystone Phil]

Fezzy's family is rather well off. Big house in Central New Jersey. See what I'm getting at? Any wonder why he'd hold this position?

Jesus Christ, what on Earth makes you so damn fixated with ME?  I'm not having this retarded conversation again.  Are you really that incapable of debating the ISSUE rather than the person?  I simply WILL NOT have a conversation about myself or you, ever, under any circumstances.

You wanted to label me a racist. You said there was no other reason for someone to oppose birthright citizenship. Now we'll see how you like others taking cheap shots.

The irony is that the people in this thread closest to their immigrant roots are supposed to take a lecture from Fezzy on immigrant appreciation. Got to love it.

[Keystone Phil]

Ignoring that and deriding me for pointing it out is easily the most intellectually dishonest thing I've heard on here in a long time.  

You want to talk to us about intellectual dishonesty? Wow. Please, post another picture of the Statue of Liberty and tell us how this is all about our hatred for the Hispanics, Fezzy. Please.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

As has been noted, one can not sponsor parents for citizenship until age 21, and even then it has to be at least 10 years after someone has left the country if they ever lived here illegally. So the "anchor baby" nonsense is complete garbage with absolutely no basis in reality.

[Keystone Phil]

As has been noted, one can not sponsor parents for citizenship until age 21, and even then it has to be at least 10 years after someone has left the country if they ever lived here illegally. So the "anchor baby" nonsense is complete garbage with absolutely no basis in reality.

But that child is rewarded with citizenship because their parents broke the law while thousands of other children are waiting. Why are the latter so easily forgotten?

I would hate to send a child back to a place with fewer opportunities, freedoms, etc. This isn't an easily issue but, ultimately, I don't like people exploiting the system and screwing over the thousands of others that are waiting and playing by the rules.

[fezzyfestoon]

Again, there's no reason anyone has to be forgotten and no one suggested other immigrants should be.  They shouldn't have to wait absurd amounts of time to be allowed here and there's no reason for them to have to.  And teaching them a petty lesson over a nonsensical law by screwing up their lives even more is spiteful and unnecessary, especially when we are in such a collectively privileged position.

[Keystone Phil]

Again, there's no reason anyone has to be forgotten and no one suggested other immigrants should be.  They shouldn't have to wait absurd amounts of time to be allowed here and there's no reason for them to have to.  And teaching them a petty lesson over a nonsensical law by screwing up their lives even more is spiteful and unnecessary, especially when we are in such a collectively privileged position.

Following the law might be petty to you. It isn't to many others. And every time someone breaks that "nonsensical" law, the others are screwed even worse.

You want to open the borders with basically no control? Fine. We'll see how long it takes until you take a position that's even more "extreme" than what others here have been calling for.

[fezzyfestoon]

ONCE AGAIN, it's a stupid law that should be the one changed if we're going to go about doing that.  Those others wouldn't be screwed if they were let in after a reasonable immigration process, too.  I don't know where I said anything at all regarding open borders, but ok.

[Keystone Phil]

ONCE AGAIN, it's a stupid law that should be the one changed if we're going to go about doing that.  Those others wouldn't be screwed if they were let in after a reasonable immigration process, too.  I don't know where I said anything at all regarding open borders, but ok.

I see your capital letters, Fezzy, just as I saw your point earlier. It's a stupid law to you but it's the law. You have to deal with it. Immigrants have to deal with it. Saying this wouldn't be a problem if the law was just changed doesn't solve the problem. Since immigration law almost certainly won't be eased, you have to accept the fact that those who break this law are screwing over those that abide by the law.

[fezzyfestoon]

I see your capital letters, Fezzy, just as I saw your point earlier. It's a stupid law to you but it's the law. You have to deal with it. Immigrants have to deal with it. Saying this wouldn't be a problem if the law was just changed doesn't solve the problem. Since immigration law almost certainly won't be eased, you have to accept the fact that those who break this law are screwing over those that abide by the law.

Ok, so then deal with the law that immigrant children can go to school...

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Well it's not the children who broke the law but their parents. Children are punished for their parents' crimes now?

[Keystone Phil]

Well it's not the children who broke the law but their parents. Children are punished for their parents' crimes now?

You see it as "punished" and I see it as them not automatically getting certain privileges. Again, this isn't easy but there are thousands of other children "punished" by the actions of those other children's parents. No word about them.

[Inverted Things]

I haven't found any reasoning behind this yet, so race is really the only logical possibility.

...or they are tired of people taking advantage of the system.

I just wish these debates didn't become "You want to change the law because you hate brown people."

Same, no other nation of the world with a similar degree of power as the United States allows children born on their soil to automatically become citizens. Too many people abuse the system now with the intent of staying on American soil because their children were born here.

A list of all nations of the world with a similar degree of power as the United States (excepting the US):
{}

Now, it's well established mathematically that {} is a subset of any set.  Thus,
{} is a subset of {nations which allow children born on their soil to automatically become citizens}

Therefore your first sentence is flat wrong.  In fact, all nations with a similar degree of power to the US have birthright citizenship.

As for your abuse of the system line: you're a parrot repeating a talking point unless you can find me an estimate as to how much it's costing us.

[DrScholl]

It surely is about race, but it's also about elections. This is nothing more than an electoral security measure by Republicans scared that minorities will ruin their election chances and need an ace in the hole to neutralize votes, especially in Arizona. If these measures passed, they'd be challenging every Hispanic person that shows up at the polls and throw out tons of votes under the premise of the law.

[ilikeverin]

Well it's not the children who broke the law but their parents. Children are punished for their parents' crimes now?

You see it as "punished" and I see it as them not automatically getting certain privileges. Again, this isn't easy but there are thousands of other children "punished" by the actions of those other children's parents. No word about them.

Yes, that's because talking about every single other disadvantaged group, or, at the very least, a significant fraction of those groups, is, uh, a bit broad...

I haven't found any reasoning behind this yet, so race is really the only logical possibility.

...or they are tired of people taking advantage of the system.

I just wish these debates didn't become "You want to change the law because you hate brown people."

Same, no other nation of the world with a similar degree of power as the United States allows children born on their soil to automatically become citizens. Too many people abuse the system now with the intent of staying on American soil because their children were born here.

A list of all nations of the world with a similar degree of power as the United States (excepting the US):
{}

Now, it's well established mathematically that {} is a subset of any set.  Thus,
{} is a subset of {nations which allow children born on their soil to automatically become citizens}

Therefore your first sentence is flat wrong.  In fact, all nations with a similar degree of power to the US have birthright citizenship.

As for your abuse of the system line: you're a parrot repeating a talking point unless you can find me an estimate as to how much it's costing us.

Welcome back! *hughughug*

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Well it's not the children who broke the law but their parents. Children are punished for their parents' crimes now?

You see it as "punished" and I see it as them not automatically getting certain privileges. Again, this isn't easy but there are thousands of other children "punished" by the actions of those other children's parents. No word about them.

So by denying them public education like many want to we're creating some giant uneducated underclass. Is that exactly what we want or what's beneficial?

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

Does the rest of the first world (Western Europe, Canada, Australia and Japan) have birthright citizenship?

[Landslide Lyndon]

It surely is about race, but it's also about elections. This is nothing more than an electoral security measure by Republicans scared that minorities will ruin their election chances and need an ace in the hole to neutralize votes, especially in Arizona. If these measures passed, they'd be challenging every Hispanic person that shows up at the polls and throw out tons of votes under the premise of the law.

That. If Hispanics were a heavily Republican group then you would see the likes of Tancredo, King and the Arizona guy marginalized inside the Republican party, not made into folk heroes.

[Keystone Phil]

Well it's not the children who broke the law but their parents. Children are punished for their parents' crimes now?

You see it as "punished" and I see it as them not automatically getting certain privileges. Again, this isn't easy but there are thousands of other children "punished" by the actions of those other children's parents. No word about them.

So by denying them public education like many want to we're creating some giant uneducated underclass. Is that exactly what we want or what's beneficial?

If they aren't granted citizenship and public education then would we be seeing as many people entering illegal. You'll probably say, "Well, they'll just come here anyway" and that ought to serve as a serious wake up call for people to get on board with real border security.

It surely is about race, but it's also about elections. This is nothing more than an electoral security measure by Republicans scared that minorities will ruin their election chances and need an ace in the hole to neutralize votes, especially in Arizona. If these measures passed, they'd be challenging every Hispanic person that shows up at the polls and throw out tons of votes under the premise of the law.

That. If Hispanics were a heavily Republican group then you would see the likes of Tancredo, King and the Arizona guy marginalized inside the Republican party, not made into folk heroes.

So you're saying I don't like Hispanics?

I love it when you guys can't win an argument. It always goes back to racism or sexism or bigotry. There can never be an honest disagreement.

[phk]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Many of the types of immigrants you are implying have little to no interest in living here. They are here to make some money and send it back home in remittance form.

The problem comes when they have children and can't speak English to speak with their teachers to even ask simple questions if their children are even doing their homework.

Nor are they even interested in preparing their children for school.

Btw. I'm an immigrant and I find the racism directed from leftists related to China's and India's economic development abhorrent.

[Keystone Phil]

I find the racism directed from leftists related to China's and India's economic development abhorrent.

Stop it! It's ok when they do it.

[phk]

I find the racism directed from leftists related to China's and India's economic development abhorrent.

Stop it! It's ok when they do it.

Yep. Jfern walks free to this day.

[Landslide Lyndon]

It surely is about race, but it's also about elections. This is nothing more than an electoral security measure by Republicans scared that minorities will ruin their election chances and need an ace in the hole to neutralize votes, especially in Arizona. If these measures passed, they'd be challenging every Hispanic person that shows up at the polls and throw out tons of votes under the premise of the law.

That. If Hispanics were a heavily Republican group then you would see the likes of Tancredo, King and the Arizona guy marginalized inside the Republican party, not made into folk heroes.

So you're saying I don't like Hispanics?

I love it when you guys can't win an argument. It always goes back to racism or sexism or bigotry. There can never be an honest disagreement.

If by racist you mean unwilling to increase the ranks of a Dem-friendly constituency with a lot of new voters thus complicating Republican's electoral math, then yes you are.