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Author Topic: First Presidential Debate (Closing Statements)  (Read 2494 times)
Citizen (The) Doctor
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« on: January 07, 2011, 04:08:24 pm »
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Hello to Atlasia from the Voice and the Independent, where the first Presidential debate will be held this cycle!  From the UDL we Have Conor, Marokai Blue and Ben, from the JCP we have Oakvale.  From the RPP we have Tmthforu94!  We will begin with opening statements from all candidates to be posted today by 4 PM PST.  Afterwards we will move on with questions throughout the weekend.  

Best wishes to each of you and here's to a fruitful debate!
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« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2011, 04:27:14 pm »
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I'm sure it will be a great debate. Smiley
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« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2011, 06:25:17 pm »
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My apologies for taking so long to get to my opening statement. I've been moving, ill, and having to deal with shoddy internet. It's a miracle I'm here at all. See, Atlasia? The things I do for you. Tongue

I'm running for President because the challenges that face this game are immense, and I've tackled problems in countless ways from a variety of offices. While Senator, I was active and ran the Senate efficiently and effectively, and passed numerous amounts of legislation, trying in a variety of ways to pass game reform measures and domestic policy proposals.

While Vice President, I took an active approach to the role, and proposed several pieces of legislation and debate in the Senate as an honorary Senator. While a Justice, I wrote detailed opinions and established much precedent. While AG, I have updated the wiki efficiently, revived an Intro thread that, prior to my efforts, went woefully underappreciated.

Purple State and I had an agenda when we won in June, and we followed through on those promises. We stepped down after that single term because the work we wanted to accomplish in that time was done. We've returned again with more ideas and more proposals to get this game moving on the much better framework that we built during our time together the first time.

I believe that I can prove to Atlasia that I am the most qualified person for the job and the most prepared. That's what these debates serve. To show differences of style and creativity. To contrast the proposals and the intelligence of the candidates.

Thank you.
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« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2011, 06:35:29 pm »
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First off, thanks to "The Voice" and "The Independent" for hosting this debate. I'd also like to thank my opponents, Attorney General Marokai Blue, GTO Ambassador Ben, Governor Oakvale, and Conor. Hopefully many great idea's will be shared in this debate. Smiley

Their are many great challenges facing this game, mainly activity, which is specifically poor in the Senate. I believe I have the experience and leadership abilities to lead Atlasia into a stronger,active future. As Governor of the Mideast, I successfully led the switch over to the regional government board (special thanks to Fritz for pulling through for all of us on that) and our Assembly has had one of it's most active sessions over there. I believe I have ran the Mideast region very thoroughly, maintaining a very active record and engaging in debate, as well as working myself quite a bit on legislation. I will carry those same qualities with me to the White House, if I am privileged to serve as your President.

I look forward to this debate, as well as the campaign, and hopefully by the end of this, Atlasians will have a solid opinion of every candidate and will know exactly what each of us would do as President. Thank you all. Smiley
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« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2011, 06:41:15 pm »
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I hope nobody objects that my opening statement is tardy, I'm a little under the weather and want to get the opening statement out of the way so I can tackle the questions when I'm feeling somewhat better. Tongue

First and foremost, I'd like to thank Archangel and The Voice and Independent for hosting this debate. We've got a great field of candidates, and I'm confident the discussion will be thought-provoking, open and broad. Smiley

I'd also like to thank Attorney General Marokai, Governor Tmth, Ambassador Ben and, er, Comrade Rocky for attending this debate.

Most of the attention paid to my campaign thus far has focused on the personality conflicts, the drama, the myriad controversies. I think everyone involved, on all sides, would agree that the conflict, while doubtless entertaining for some, has obfuscated the real issues that this election is about.

It's widely agreed that Atlasia is "broken" - Badger's sterling work as Game Moderator is ignored, the Senate is all too often inactive, and the rare new member that isn't scared off by the wild cries of "sock", or, dare I say it, "Hamilton!"  often ends up languishing in the regional assemblies, with an entrenched incumbency in the Senate providing an insurmountable obstacle for those without a strong base of friends and allies to propel them to national office.

I think all my opponents will agree with the somewhat obvious conclusion that Atlasia's institutions need fundamental change - where we will have the most enlightening and interesting debate is where we disagree on what kind of change is needed. Who knows, maybe we'll even have a few candidates change their mind after a particularly persuasive argument... although I wouldn't bet on it. Tongue

As President, I'll continue with the same kind of reform-minded agenda I've implemented as Governor. Obviously, the dreaded Real Life (tm) has prevented me from posting my formal platform, but I look forward to going into detail on my plans (they do exist! Wink) in this debate.

With all that said, I'll shut up until the questions begin.




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Citizen (The) Doctor
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« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2011, 07:08:36 pm »
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Due to the remaining candidates not reaching the Opening statements deadline, we will move onto questioning.

We shall begin in the field of economics, where as you all know, Atlasia is having some hard times.  With the recent stock market crash and "Great Recession" along with perceived inactivity of the federal government, what is your plan for getting Atlasia back on it's feet?

You have 20 minutes to answer this question.
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« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2011, 07:20:39 pm »
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I'll not be giving a long opening statement.  I'll begin by thanking everyone for taking part in the Debate - this can show people who the candidates are.

Now, on to why I am running for President.  Atlasia has hit a lull.  I believe that something needs to be done to resurrect things.  I feel this can be done, first of all, by making foreign policy matter again.  To that end, should I be elected, I'll be making foreign policy a priority: I will create three deputy SoEA, each with the title of "Ambassador to _" - the UN, NATO, and the EU.  They will be required to submit bi-weekly reports to the new "GM for Foreign Affairs", who will create stories.  I will maintain the position of the GM, but shift some responsibilities to this new GM.

In addition, by increasing opportunities for activity - something my foreign policy ideas will - I see a way to bring Atlasia back.  If people are active, they will make the game more entertaining.

So, here I am.  Now let's go!

My internet crashed, so sorry Sad

Now, to the question.  The way I see us being able to get the economy going is through targeted spending.  The spending should be focused entirely on job creation - that means spending on infrastructure and public works, as well as putting money in the hands of the less fortunate, who spend money, as opposed to the rich, who tend to save money.
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« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2011, 07:26:14 pm »
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Due to the remaining candidates not reaching the Opening statements deadline, we will move onto questioning.

We shall begin in the field of economics, where as you all know, Atlasia is having some hard times.  With the recent stock market crash and "Great Recession" along with perceived inactivity of the federal government, what is your plan for getting Atlasia back on it's feet?

You have 20 minutes to answer this question.

First of all, an economic response is half-policy, half-response time. The government needs to respond swiftly to be as effective as possible. That's why one of my proposals is allowing the President and/or Vice President to have their own legislative que slot on the Senate floor, to make proposals as swiftly as possible. It would give the executive any other legislative powers, of course, but it would allow quick facilitation of executive proposals.

The right course of action of course is the Senate's proposed stimulus bill. That sort of thing is precisely what we need. More important than anything is getting money directly into the hands of those people who spend it. Food stamps and unemployment compensation are two of the most effective stimulus measures that can be taken, and those are two things that should be as largely boosted as is feasible.

But one of my biggest proposals when if elected will be to implement a large set of new credit card regulations. Of course, thanks to my time as Senator, we passed a cap on credit card interest rates that I will protect at all costs, but we can go further. I will propose policies similar to the "Credit CARD Act of 2009" passed in the real world, with a specific emphasis on the following provisions:

  • Requires card companies give cardholders 45 days notice of any interest rate increases.
  • Gives cardholders the right to cancel their card and pay off their existing balance at the existing interest rate and repayment schedule if an interest rate increase is imposed; gives cardholders three billing cycles after the rate increase to decline these new terms.
  • Gives cardholders time to pay their bills by requiring card companies to mail billing statements 21 calendar days before the due date (14 days was the previous minimum).
  • Requires that payments made before 5 p.m. EST on the due date are considered timely.
  • Requires the due date to fall on the same day each month. If the fixed due date normally falls on a Saturday, Sunday or legal banking holiday, then the due date shall be pushed to the next business day after the date. This measure prohibits due dates to fall on a weekend or holiday.
  • Directs card companies to provide on every statement, a phone and internet address that a cardholder can access for payoff balances.
  • Prohibits card companies from charging late fees when a cardholder presents proof of mailing payment not less than 7 days before the due date.
  • Requires card companies to offer consumers the option of having a fixed credit limit that cannot be exceeded.
  • Prevents card companies from charging over-the-limit fees on a cardholder with a fixed credit limit.
  • A credit card cannot be issued to someone under age 21, unless they have a co-signer (who is 21 or over), or can provide proof of a means to repay.
  • Prohibits retailers from setting expiration dates less than 5 years after the card is purchased.
  • Prohibits retailers from charging dormancy, inactivity, and service fees unless the card has not been used for at least 12 months. If fees are charged after this period, the details of such fees must be clearly established on the card, but retailers cannot assess more than one fee per month under any circumstances.

And a variety of other provisions. Protecting credit card holders is a key element in stabilizing the economy for years to come.
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« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2011, 07:28:23 pm »
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First and foremost, we must acknowledge that at any given second, this nation could plunge into a recession if China stops financing our national debt. As I've stated before, my first goal as President, if it isn't addressed before then, is to work with the SoEA and the Chinese government to find an acceptable solution here. We must convince them that this wouldn't benefit either side. If need be, I myself would travel to China to meet with their government. I plan to make this a key issue of my administration, as well as personally being involved in debates in the Senate and encouraging the Senators to act on GM reports.

One idea I have floated on is potentially creating 2 GM's. I know that being a GM can be a daunting task, and we're lucky to have someone as committed as Badger doing it. However, I know it can sometimes be overwhelming for him. My thoughts would be having one committed to national news as well as foreign affairs, while the other being more committed to regional affairs. This is just an idea, and I hope it can be intelligently discussed both in this debate and outside of it. By no means am I endorsing this...yet. Wink

To quickly add, before time expires, I agree with Ben that more spending should be focused on job creation. There are several areas spending will have to be cut in order to do this. With our weak economy, I believe we shouldn't be constantly adding onto our national debt, however, we shouldn't be putting a larger tax burden on the American people at the same time.

I'm sorry, this all I can fit into 20 minutes, as I myself didn't have an answer already planned out. Wink More economic views will be discussed in my campaign thread when my platform is released.

Thank you.
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« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2011, 07:29:09 pm »
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'm sorry, this all I can fit into 20 minutes, as I myself didn't have an answer already planned out. Wink

Nor did I. Wink
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« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2011, 07:37:58 pm »
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'm sorry, this all I can fit into 20 minutes, as I myself didn't have an answer already planned out. Wink

Nor did I. Wink

No.  You just gave a lengthy bullet pointed and annotated speech about credit card legislation that does very little to actually impact an economy in freefall.
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Citizen (The) Doctor
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« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2011, 07:38:46 pm »
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The time limit is up, and I will move onto the next question.

With the fact that the federal stimulus has been enacted, what is your opinion of the current federal deficit and what is your plan of action regarding this?

You have 30 minutes to respond.
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« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2011, 07:40:15 pm »
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I'll keep my answer quick, since I'm pretty sure my time's already expired.

First things first, I'd like to back Ben's idea of 2 GMs, one for domestic and one for foreign affairs. I've had a similar idea for a while, which evolved from my - admittedly unworkable - original idea of regional GMs. The less said about that the better. Tongue

The main problem with the economic crisis isn't merely spending, or taxation, or the price of tea in China. The problem is that, by and large, it's being ignored.

I can't and won't tar all the government with the same brush - Senator North Carolina Yankee has been doggedly alerting people to Badger's warnings for months, myself included, and President Fritz has been paying attention - but most in the Senate and the executive branch have an attitude of "Crisis? What Crisis?"

It's a GM issue - we need to get the GM posting in the Senate, we need regular contact between the administration and Secretaries and the GM, we need the game running according to some kind of actual plot. One of the biggest flaws in Atlasia is that laws go into a legislative black hole and are never heard from again - this is especially prevalent on a regional level.

As President, I'd also give the GM a small team of 1-2 assistants, focusing on regional issues, something that my fellow Governors would agree has been ignored for too long. Wink

On an "in character" level, I subscribe to, I'm afraid to say, the conventional wisdom. Cut spending, cut taxes, and the economy will bounce back. Long term gargantuan deficits are not acceptable.

So, in short, and apologies for running over time - this crisis is largely due to people ignoring the GM until it was too late. Also, twenty minutes is too short a time. Tongue

Thank you.

EDIT: Bleh!
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« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2011, 07:44:11 pm »
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'm sorry, this all I can fit into 20 minutes, as I myself didn't have an answer already planned out. Wink

Nor did I. Wink

No.  You just gave a lengthy bullet pointed and annotated speech about credit card legislation that does very little to actually impact an economy in freefall.

I explained efforts on shortening response time, supported the use of further stimulus, and more specifically, food stamp and unemployment compensation legislation, in addition to proposing credit card regulations which have a major impact on individual Atlasians and can stabilize and protect the economy for the future. It is critical not to undersell any impact these policies can have. Credit cards, for better or worse, are a major part of most modern economies, and they go woefully underregulated.

(Also, the question was about economic policy more broadly. Not about being in "freefall.") There's no need to bicker.
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« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2011, 07:50:43 pm »
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The time limit is up, and I will move onto the next question.

With the fact that the federal stimulus has been enacted, what is your opinion of the current federal deficit and what is your plan of action regarding this?

You have 30 minutes to respond.

I'm at heart something of a Keynesian, although not one of those who believes that the deficit is little more than a political football.

My basic position is that deficit spending may be needed to power the economy out of a crisis like the one we're facing, but that we should strive to eliminate long-term deficits as quickly as reasonably possible when we're in a more favourable economic climate.

In short, I back the stimulus passed by the Senate. It's a necessary evil. But as President I'll clamp down on wasteful spending - and even from the level-headed Senators of Atlasia, there's a lot of it - and I'm not afraid to say I'd even raise taxes to bring the deficit down to acceptable levels. I'm of the fairly uncontroversial belief that people tend to know what to do with their money better than the government nine times out of ten, but that one time out of ten applies here - the deficit needs to be reduced, and it's not going to be pain-free. But we can't go on spending like drunken sailors around the clock.

When we're living off borrowed Chinese money, we're living off borrowed time. It's not sustainable, it's not acceptable, and it's not going to last under an Oakvale Presidency.

That about wraps that one up. Smiley

EDIT: I'll go into more detail on this question in my campaign thread in the coming days, I'm just getting paranoid about the time limits. Tongue
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« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2011, 07:54:14 pm »
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The time limit is up, and I will move onto the next question.

With the fact that the federal stimulus has been enacted, what is your opinion of the current federal deficit and what is your plan of action regarding this?

You have 30 minutes to respond.

The deficit is of course a problem, but long term, rather simple to actually deal with. As Oakvale said, I myself am something of a Keynesian, and sometimes a deficit is something we must deal with for a short time when there are matters of much greater import. Having no deficit doesn't do us any good when our economy is in shambles, afterall.

While Senator, I proposed the "Fiscal Responsibility Act", something I'm very proud of, which goes a long way to reducing the deficit on it's own. While I believe we need to spend money in the short term to gain in the long term, that Act itself will allow us the occasional fall-back when the going gets tough, as some peace of mind in knowing the deficit is on the retreat:

National News

From the GM’s Desk: Legislation Analysis
Fiscal Responsibility Bill: This legislation, sponsored by Senator Marokai Blue (JCP), seeks to streamline and restructure Atlasian income tax brackets.

The current bill would create new brackets for individual's income above $367,700, $1 million and $2.5 million, respectively. This would equate with a tax rate increase for the higher brackets and a tax rate decrease for the lowest brackets, with most rates remaining the same.

Previous estimates by the Office of the GM calculated between $250 billion and $600 billion in gained revenue as a result of these changes. Given the overall nature of marginal income tax, as well as the relative revenue gained through individual, rather than corporate, income taxes, the office is now prepared to predict a total revenue in-flow of $500 billion as a result of the new taxation brackets.

This would greatly help in reducing the budget deficit over the coming years. In conjunction with eventual spending cuts and other tax reforms, the Atlasian budget could reach neutrality in two years and bring the debt to zero shortly after a ten year time horizon.
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« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2011, 07:56:08 pm »
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Our national deficit is obviously too large. To prevent our debt from getting much larger, I would veto a bill drastically raising the debt ceiling. Small cuts should be made across the board until we can get this under control, specifically in military spending, I believe. More of a focus should be on job creation. I realize that cutting into our national debt will take time, especially now, during an economic crisis. Because in these trying times, some extra spending will be needed, the Stimulus Bill, for example, to help revitalize our economy.

I cannot stress how vital it is for our federal government to act quickly in times of crisis, such as the current issue with China. As Oakvale stated, we're living on borrowed time. If such crisis ever occurred under my administration, I can assure you that a fast and appropriate response would be made to prevent our nation's economy from getting any worse.

*Pulls a George HW Bush and checks his watch*

Whew, looks like I'm good on time. Smiley
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« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2011, 08:00:12 pm »
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I'm sure this violates the rules, but I should just butt in to add that I disagree with Tmth that vetoing a bill to raise the debt ceiling is the right course of action. I'm all for tough love, but that wouldn't help anyone, IMO, and would just cause an unneeded financial crisis.

The solution is cut spending in a gradual, sustainable way, over a period of several years, as opposed to the traumatic (and dramatic) moves favoured by those who are even bigger "deficit hawks" than I. Tongue

The rest of the Governor's answer I broadly agree with.

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« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2011, 08:01:29 pm »
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I concur with Oakvale regarding the debt ceiling. Refusing to raise it (should a thing such as that come up) would cause all hell to break loose.
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« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2011, 08:12:18 pm »
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As the time limit is up, we will move on to the next question.

From the SoIA's report to the Senate, unemployment rates across the country have reached record highs.  What will your administrations do to help remedy this situation?  You have 20 minutes to answer this question.

I would also like to state that in response to Oakvale, I will allow responding to each other within the debate, providing that things remain civil and controlled.
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« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2011, 08:21:11 pm »
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As the time limit is up, we will move on to the next question.

From the SoIA's report to the Senate, unemployment rates across the country have reached record highs.  What will your administrations do to help remedy this situation?

With hope, the stimulus package will have some impact, but we shouldn't be content with that alone.

A major part of what needs to be done is encouraging the regions to act and make their own efforts to reduce unemployment. The federal government can make a significant effort on their own, but we alone cannot do the job. Several parts must act together for maximum impact.

When I was Vice President, Purple State and I proposed (and I penned) the "Social & Economic Development Zone Improvement Act" which improved on the idea first proposed by Afleitch. The Act has numerous bonuses to specific regions declared a Social & Economic Development Zone.

Quote
Section 3: Benefits of a SEDZ

   1. Money shall be distributed to the individual Zones for the purpose of infrastructure improvements and various local projects to better the community. Funds shall be payed out on a sliding scale to the population size of the zone, with a maximum of fifteen million dollars.
   2. All sales and business taxes shall be suspended in the area within the Zone for 12 months.

Section 4: Stimulating Employment Within SEDZs

   1. A new program titled "Atlasia Works" will be created that shall operate within the Zones to expand businesses and transition individuals from state assistance benefits to meaningful work.
   2. "Atlasia Works" will compile a list eligible businesses that seek to enroll in the program that wish to expand their business, but are immediately unable to do so. Businesses with more than 3 locations in the Zone will not be eligible.
   3. Each individual hired through the Atlasia Works program within the Social & Economic Development Zone shall have up to 80% of their wage subsidized by the government for up to 18 months. Each employer will be limited to a number of ten subsidized jobs simultaneously.
         1. The Department of Internal Affairs shall have the authority to place wage caps on workers hired through the Atlasia Works program.
   4. Only individuals who recieve federal or regional assistance benefits (welfare), or individuals who would otherwise be eligible for such benefits except for having already recieved them for their maximum duration of eligibility, shall be able to find jobs through the Atlasia Works program.

As President I would very strongly encourage regions to declare areas within their regions a SED Zone and give them increased attention. There are many areas of Atlasia that have been ignored with the passage of time, and with the GM's help we can estimate the number and placement of SEDZ to "fuel" employment (stealing a phrase from my June campaign!) and then the federal government and do our part by pledging the money necessary for the infrastructural development of those said Zones.

The SEDZI Act was a landmark piece of legislation. It's time to use it!
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« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2011, 08:27:10 pm »
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Unfortunately, I have to get going shortly - I'll answer any questions I miss in the meantime in my campaign thread. Smiley

To quicky address the unemployment question, I'd first of all agree with the Attorney General that, hopefully, the major stimulus passed will have some impact.

In keeping with his second point, which I agree with, on regions combatting unemployment on a more local level, I've made a couple of efforts to address the situation in my own region - the most notable being a regional hiring incentives initiative when President Purple State vetoed - IIRC - a national bill with similar aims.

The most fundamental truth of economic theory is that people - and businesses - respond to incentives. We need to give businesses an incentive to start hiring again. The obvious thing to do is to implement large tax credits for a businesses hiring an unemployed worker, but there are other things we can do. If it will create jobs, lowering the minimum wage slightly will actually help rather than hurt people - the minimum wage will still be higher than welfare after all. This might not be the obvious thing for a "left" candidate to do, but if it creates jobs I don't much care if it's Milton Friedman or Karl Marx. Wink

Another major way to fight unemployment is education, education, education. Also, education.

Seriously, though - the unemployment rate for college-educated workers is much, much lower than those with a high school diploma. There's a reason for that - if Atlasia is to have near-full employment, we need, to borrow the cliché of Ireland's current government, a "smart economy".

To this end, my administration will invest heavily in education (especially adult education), a field, incidentally, which Tmth and I have co-operated on in the past. Smiley

Thank you.
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2011, 08:33:34 pm »
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What's been presented in the past obviously hasn't worked too well, as our unemployment numbers are still extremely high, and currently going up, not down. I also am hopeful that the recently passed stimulus package will provide a boost to the economy, and I'm sure that in the Mideast, we will be able to use this money given to us effectively. An issue I feel is important is entitlement reform. We've continued to kick that can down on a long road, and now, that road has ended. As President, I will do my best to not create any more taxes.

Something else, which was highly touted by former Senator Barnes that I resoundingly approve of, is green energy. In the past, reform has been made on encouraging green jobs in the Mideast and Senate, and I hope to continue that work. On top of that, for creating jobs, I believe it is important that we provide incentives to businesses who hire new employee's, which I remember being partly covered back under the Purple State administration.

Agreeing with Oakvale (again), I believe investing in education is investing in our future, a stronger future for our nation, and specifically, our economy. I'm a big supporter of educational funding, ask anyone who knows my work in the Mideast. Wink I hope to continue that commitment to our youth as the next President. All of these issues will be better outlined when my platform is released.

(Stupid Rosie, forced me to write a rushed post Tongue)
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« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2011, 08:37:48 pm »
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I would simply like to agree with Tmth's statement regarding taxes. I too agree that we certainly need no more taxes at this point.
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Citizen (The) Doctor
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« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2011, 08:43:08 pm »
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Due to the fact that I must get going early, I will put up a series up questions:

What is your current opinion of the financial regulations the Federal Government currently has for corporations?  Is it fine as it is or should it be changed?  How and Why?

Which Federal programs are the most important to keep financially stable at this time?  Which ones, if any, should be cut?

Is the current healthcare system adequate for Atlasia?  Would you institute any majour changes to this system or not?  Why?

Currently, overseas trade policies are not in the spotlight, however, Atlasia is known on the world stage as a trade hub.  Do you believe that trade with other countries, especially with China and Russia, should be increased or decreased and why?

The military of Atlasia is a standing military, and fairly advanced.  However, with the lack of foreign conflicts or many foreign interests, what should be done with the military, especially financially?

Is the current tax policy adequate in Atlasia, and what is your position on taxation of businesses and individuals of different income brackets?  Would you also consider religious institutions viable for taxation?

Energy is a pressing matter in Atlasia today, specifically alternative and green energy sources.  How much do you believe the federal government should be involved in the growth of alternative energy and do you believe that it could be a lifesaver for the economy?

Do any of you believe that any of the pressing issues in terms of the economy and government spending can be solved within your term?

Please answer these questions by 9 AM PST tomorrow.  Debate will continue at 9 AM PST tomorrow.  Please feel free to use the time until then for free candidate discussion - specifically on the issue of the economy.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2011, 08:45:06 pm by The Right Honourable Director of Halifax, Lt. Gov The Doctor »Logged

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