Free Tunisia

[Јas]

And the Pirate Party gets its first cabinet minister...

[Antonio the Sixth]

And the Pirate Party gets its first cabinet minister...

W............... T................. F................. ?

[Silent Hunter]

Seriously, what on Earth?

[Middle-aged Europe]

All members of the current cabinet have now left the RCD.

In an example of epic fail, the Socialist International has decided to revoke the RCD's SI membership earlier this week (yeah, they're kicking them out after they lost power, not when they're in power).

http://www.socialistinternational.org/viewArticle.cfm?ArticleID=2085

[Antonio the Sixth]

All members of the current cabinet have now left the RCD.

If the two parts were switched, it would be good news.

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LOL, so pitifully opportunist...

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Well I'm glad they've been thrown out, but, yeah. Should have happened a long time ago.

[The Mikado]

I suppose a member of the Pirate Party in Tunisia would be a Barbary Pirate?

[Middle-aged Europe]

I suppose Tunisia has always been the odd one out. I just learned that it is the only Arab country in which abortion is legal. Strange.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Meanwhile, Uncle Muammar shut down all cell phones in Libya...

[Beet]

Way too many people are celebrating too early. We have no idea whether this 'revolution' is a good or bad thing until we see what comes out of it, and of that we still have no idea. And for those who can't see why the overthrow of an oppressive dictatorship can be bad, I would just point out that Tsar Nicholas II and the Shah of Iran were both oppressive dictatorships.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Way too many people are celebrating too early. We have no idea whether this 'revolution' is a good or bad thing until we see what comes out of it, and of that we still have no idea. And for those who can't see why the overthrow of an oppressive dictatorship can be bad, I would just point out that Tsar Nicholas II and the Shah of Iran were both oppressive dictatorships.

Well, unless there are actual signs that Tunisia turns into something worse I'd say its completely unfounded to say otherwise.  So far, post-Ben Ali Tunisia is at least gonna be the lesser evil compared to Ben Ali Tunisia. Maybe even more, but that remains to be seen as well.

[Middle-aged Europe]

In all likelihood, two things won't happen btw.

1) Tunisia won't turn into a Islamic theocracy now.

2) Similar revolutions won't happen in other Arab states for the forseeable future.

So, it's entirely possible that Tunisia becomes a stable democracy, but remains the only one in the region at the same time.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Yeah, joining in any sort of unity government with the previous incumbents was a boneheaded move doomed to fail.

Sorry but it just shows as one more baseless and rather irrelevant comment.

Nothing 'doomed to fail' so far. Yesterday took place the 1st Council of Ministers, while a presence of former RCD ministers can be regretted, the majority of the govt is composed of official opponent or people from the civilian society (that you can consider unofficial opponents) and never stopped to give clear signs so far that they won't try to steal this revolution and would rather participate to accomplish it, the pressure of the street and the thirst is so strong anyhow that you wonder how they could do otherwise.

Yesterday, after the Council of Ministers, the big decisions have been:

Law of general amnesty for political prisoners, Islamists included.
Legalization of all political parties, Islamist ones included.
Seizing of all possessions of Ben Ali and RCD by the Tunisian state.

In the same time, the day before the President by Interim said he wanted to satisfy the aspirations of this revolution and wanted to fully cut with the past, the day after all RCD ministers did quit RCD and 'political office' of RCD has been dissolved, and RCD building shut, and has a symbol some protesters did detached the big metallic letters in front of it. Yesterday 33 people from Ben Ali family were arrested and today a national mandate of arrest against Ben Ali has been issued. I don't if the protest can be satisfied of all of this but seems there is some good will from this govt and anyhow the most important remains that people seem determined not to be stolen. A decision of 3 days of national mourning have also been decreed, which might give some time to wonder for everybody. Schools will reopen on Monday.

Moreover, why not looking at all those successful democratic transitions in which the incumbents played a role and haven't been totally wiped out (Spain, South Africa, for those I can think of...).

Way too many people are celebrating too early. We have no idea whether this 'revolution' is a good or bad thing until we see what comes out of it, and of that we still have no idea. And for those who can't see why the overthrow of an oppressive dictatorship can be bad, I would just point out that Tsar Nicholas II and the Shah of Iran were both oppressive dictatorships.

You speak without clue of what Tunisia is and what happened there, right? Tunisia isn't an abstraction, its population has concrete characteristics, and some concrete things happened which makes your statement rather irrelevant, as always it is backed by nothing coming form the Tunisian context. And go ask Tunisians whether Ben Ali who, beyond the lack of freedom, practiced over-surveillance, torture, and racket could be a good thing, what it was is precisely responsible of this determination of Tunisians to create something that will give them freedom and democracy. Beyond freedom that they are determined to keep now which is a guarantee for democracy, there is a thirst about the exercise, about the principles of democracy there, it's something they are gaining and that they wanna build beyond the opposition of some of their opinions, that's what you can see when you see Tunisians.

Will this govt last a long time, I don't know, there has still been protests today nevertheless the announcements of yesterday, less than during previous days though. But in any case I trust what Tunisians can do, and they know better than anybody here what they want and have to do anyhow.

And the Pirate Party gets its first cabinet minister...

Yeah, the web censor under Ben Ali was very developed and quite sophisticated, most people who wanted to access to free speech on the Tunisian internet apparently had to control a bit of hacking, and biggest hackers developed techniques as sophisticated as the censors.

And well, as an anecdotal sign of freedom, that member of the cabinet twitted during the Ministers Council some of the decisions that were being taken.

In all likelihood, two things won't happen btw.

1) Tunisia won't turn into a Islamic theocracy now.

2) Similar revolutions won't happen in other Arab states for the forseeable future.

So, it's entirely possible that Tunisia becomes a stable democracy, but remains the only one in the region at the same time.

I agree with both statements. In this sense I'm very glad they legalized Islamist parties and freed Islamists political prisoners, because it's totally legitimate for those to have this, and it's the best way to treat with them and to avoid they make troubles. The big Islamist leader of Ennahdah also said he won't run for presidency.

I think it could become quite hot in the foreseeable future for Arab dictatorships, but the fact they would be contested and would fall wouldn't necessarily mean what could follow would be as interesting as Tunisia, Tunisia is great because it has all the potential to become a very good example of a very positive revolution, but the political and social situations in other Arab states don't guarantee at all that it could have the same good promises than Tunisia can have. And, imo, the biggest threat for Tunisia is not what could happen inside the country in the future, but outside the country.

[Beet]

Yeah, joining in any sort of unity government with the previous incumbents was a boneheaded move doomed to fail.

Sorry but it just shows as one more baseless and rather irrelevant comment.

Nothing 'doomed to fail' so far. Yesterday took place the 1st Council of Ministers, while a presence of former RCD ministers can be regretted, the majority of the govt is composed of official opponent or people from the civilian society (that you can consider unofficial opponents) and never stopped to give clear signs so far that they won't try to steal this revolution and would rather participate to accomplish it, the pressure of the street and the thirst is so strong anyhow that you wonder how they could do otherwise.

Yesterday, after the Council of Ministers, the big decisions have been:

Law of general amnesty for political prisoners, Islamists included.
Legalization of all political parties, Islamist ones included.
Seizing of all possessions of Ben Ali and RCD by the Tunisian state.

In the same time, the day before the President by Interim said he wanted to satisfy the aspirations of this revolution and wanted to fully cut with the past, the day after all RCD ministers did quit RCD and 'political office' of RCD has been dissolved, and RCD building shut, and has a symbol some protesters did detached the big metallic letters in front of it. Yesterday 33 people from Ben Ali family were arrested and today a national mandate of arrest against Ben Ali has been issued. I don't if the protest can be satisfied of all of this but seems there is some good will from this govt and anyhow the most important remains that people seem determined not to be stolen. A decision of 3 days of national mourning have also been decreed, which might give some time to wonder for everybody. Schools will reopen on Monday.

Moreover, why not looking at all those successful democratic transitions in which the incumbents played a role and haven't been totally wiped out (Spain, South Africa, for those I can think of...).

Way too many people are celebrating too early. We have no idea whether this 'revolution' is a good or bad thing until we see what comes out of it, and of that we still have no idea. And for those who can't see why the overthrow of an oppressive dictatorship can be bad, I would just point out that Tsar Nicholas II and the Shah of Iran were both oppressive dictatorships.

You speak without clue of what Tunisia is and what happened there, right? Tunisia isn't an abstraction, its population has concrete characteristics, and some concrete things happened which makes your statement rather irrelevant, as always it is backed by nothing coming form the Tunisian context. And go ask Tunisians whether Ben Ali who, beyond the lack of freedom, practiced over-surveillance, torture, and racket could be a good thing, what it was is precisely responsible of this determination of Tunisians to create something that will give them freedom and democracy. Beyond freedom that they are determined to keep now which is a guarantee for democracy, there is a thirst about the exercise, about the principles of democracy there, it's something they are gaining and that they wanna build beyond the opposition of some of their opinions, that's what you can see when you see Tunisians.

Will this govt last a long time, I don't know, there has still been protests today nevertheless the announcements of yesterday, less than during previous days though. But in any case I trust what Tunisians can do, and they know better than anybody here what they want and have to do anyhow.

And the Pirate Party gets its first cabinet minister...

Yeah, the web censor under Ben Ali was very developed and quite sophisticated, most people who wanted to access to free speech on the Tunisian internet apparently had to control a bit of hacking, and biggest hackers developed techniques as sophisticated as the censors.

And well, as an anecdotal sign of freedom, that member of the cabinet twitted during the Ministers Council some of the decisions that were being taken.

Ok, so you're on record saying the unity government will succeed. Noted.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Nah, better not to try to twist the things. Was just saying that unity govt gave signs of actual good will, and that a part of the Tunisian population was inclined to follow it, and, overall, that a fall of it wouldn't mean 'doom', that in any case I'm rather optimistic for the situation in Tunisia.

Though, pressure have stayed big during all week, and they obtained something yesterday, all major former RCD big ministers left, only 2 minor ones stayed in. Only problem that can remain now being that Ghanouchi stayed in, too early to say how the protest will take it, while i would trust him when he says he would retire himself from political life after elections have been held I would have preferred that he'd be out too, so that would help to appease things. The UGTT, big Tunisian union tha thas been a big element of the protest and was in the 1st govt before retiring themselves refused to participate to this new govt but said that they didn't oppose Ghanouchi staying PM. This new announcement would make the protest more quiet, but let's see what they want.

And, if, in the case an actual mess really happened even after those moves, in any case you have the army which one more time said that they didn't want to break the Right of the Constitution, and wanted to stay a guardian of the Revolution, and its chief, Rachid Ammar, showed very well his very responsible attitude, and seems admired and respected by the population for this, so in case of big mess it can always be a safe exit.

You should all hope Tunisians make a successful transition as it has the potential to do it, because what they did already opened a psychological door and inspired the Arab world as a whole, so what they will do could be used as an inspiration too.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Ben Ali is still of use to the elites who control the world, so nothing will change here.

In all likelihood, two things won't happen btw.

1) Tunisia won't turn into a Islamic theocracy now.

2) Similar revolutions won't happen in other Arab states for the foreseeable future.

I see that the art of prediction is alive and well here.

To be fair, I don't think many people thought differently at the times of those posts.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Protest have ended there, apparently Mohamed Ghannouchi has been accepted as PM finally, even if a small protest has been repressed today. Now all the political job is to do, wish the best to their potential and their good will.

[Middle-aged Europe]

And PM Mohamed Ghannouchi has announced his resignation today...

[The Mikado]

About time.  Hopefully, the people of Tunis keep it up until the entire Old Regime is gone.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Beet will be quite unhappy.

[Middle-aged Europe]

New PM: Beji Caid el Sebsi, a former foreign minister under Ben Ali's predecessor (yeah, the guy is 84 years old now).

[Beet]

Beet will be quite unhappy.

Actually, I predicted this a long time ago, which tsionebreicruoc promptly chewed me out for.

[opebo]

About time.  Hopefully, the people of Tunis keep it up until the entire Old Regime is gone.

And only men with beards remain.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Beet will be quite unhappy.

Actually, I predicted this a long time ago, which tsionebreicruoc promptly chewed me out for.

Nah, I 'chewed you out' for one more post which after a lot of pointed toward doom coming while there really wasn't elements of it, I always said it could continue to move and that the political fights indeed wouldn't be finished since we were in a Revolutionary process, and, that, while there was some objective reasons that this might have been a not so bad solution in the end, that no one could pretend to know what the Tunisian should do and that only them know what they want, I never cared about 'predictions' here. And that, overall, while I was very hopeful and then tried to see the good in each new situation, I always remained very optimistic for the outcome in this country and tried to point out all the reasons why. Well, in case what I could have said would have been interesting I think all posts are still here to be reread.

I also said that I would have been very pleased that the big symbol of the old regime that Ghanouchi was leave, so that Tunisians can't suspect the political process at work, and also because overall, in term of symbol, which is something quite important, it's far better that this big symbol of the old repressive regime wasn't the one continuing the Tunisian Revolution.

And, it hasn't been posted here, in case some people hadn't noticed it, they didn't only obtained the resignation of the PM from the old regime, they obtained something far more important, which was one of their big demands, and why they continue the big protests even after the PM resigned. They obtained that, in 6 months, on July 24 to be precise, they won't vote for legislative or presidential elections within the present Constitution, they will vote to elect a Constituent Assembly. They will then push the Revolution to the deepest with building their own institutions by themselves. They would then quite exemplary fulfill the whole revolutionary process, and that's quite good.

Congrats to those who pushed the Revolution further, really wish them the best.

And now if you're so interested in predictions, I can tell that I would be very surprised that new significant changes happen in between. The new PM would be rather respected and is more associated to Bourguiba than to Ben Ali, he pleaded himself for a Constituent Assembly a matter of time after he took the PM job, he certainly felt he hadn't other choice. And the President by Interim was not a big figurehead under Ben Ali and would have a rather empty job so far.

About time.  Hopefully, the people of Tunis keep it up until the entire Old Regime is gone.

And only men with beards remain.

Haha!

[Insula Dei]

And only men with beards remain.

Beji Caid el Sebsi, the Prime Minister of Tunisia. No beard.