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Author Topic: "probably the most successful centre-left Government in the world"  (Read 3217 times)
Јas
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« on: January 21, 2011, 08:07:51 am »
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Quote from: Tony Blair
Here we were. We had just been re-elected with another landslide, we were probably the most successful centre-left government in the world and you are about to go into an alliance with a right-wing Republican president. That was the thing that worried them [Labour cabinet ministers] most.

So sayeth Mr Blair to the Chilcot Enquiry this morning.

Was Blair correct in his assertion that he was leading the most successful centre-left government in the world?
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Funny 'cause it's true:
Very few people seriously allow facts to affect their opinions.

Franzl
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« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2011, 08:26:44 am »
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One of the most, at any rate. It's mostly useless comparing situations in different countries though.
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Insula Dei
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« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2011, 08:47:38 am »
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Define 'succesfull'. If you mean electorally succesfull, than yes, at that point in history New Labour was probably the left's biggest succes, altough Canada's Liberals had been in office longer and with bigger majority's and had yet another minority government to come. Likewise if you mean influential. But in terms of realizations, I wouldn't know. Schröder did realize some pretty important things, and there are others out there who might have a claim to that throne.

Personally, I feel the purple governments in the Bene(lux) also were rather succesfull, even if the 2002-2004 period was the point when they started to wane. (The Netherlands: 2002 election and Fortuyn, Belgium: 2004 regional elections, just a year after the epic 2003 federal elections Sad )
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London Man
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« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2011, 08:50:56 am »
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One of the most, at any rate. It's mostly useless comparing situations in different countries though.

I agree. 13 years in office is some achievement.
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Sibboleth
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« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2011, 08:59:01 am »
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A slightly odd comment given that, if his autobiography is anything to go by, he's actually lukewarm (at best!) about the actual achievements of his government (devolution especially). I mean, he's not exactly wrong, but I wonder whether it's for the wrong reasons.
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"I have become entangled in my own data, and my conclusion stands in direct contradiction to the initial idea from which I started. Proceeding from unlimited freedom, I end with unlimited despotism. I will add, however, that there can be no solution of the social formula except mine."
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« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2011, 09:04:46 am »
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They were without any doubt very successful. The"left-wing" part is open to debates, though.
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22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.

It really is.



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Sibboleth
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« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2011, 09:10:26 am »
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They were without any doubt very successful. The"left-wing" part is open to debates, though.

Rhetoric aside, no different to any other social democrat-led government of that time then. Of course he said 'centre-left'; I don't think you'd ever catch him going any further Grin

But I wonder what he actually meant, for the reasons I mentioned earlier.
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"I have become entangled in my own data, and my conclusion stands in direct contradiction to the initial idea from which I started. Proceeding from unlimited freedom, I end with unlimited despotism. I will add, however, that there can be no solution of the social formula except mine."
Antonio V
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« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2011, 09:25:28 am »
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They were without any doubt very successful. The"left-wing" part is open to debates, though.

Rhetoric aside, no different to any other social democrat-led government of that time then. Of course he said 'centre-left'; I don't think you'd ever catch him going any further Grin

That's the rhetoric indeed : didn't he say himself "there is no right-wing or left-wing policies, there are policies that work and policies that don't work" ? Of course most of the left-wing governments of that time weren't really different indeed. And for the post-Thatcher British political spectrum, no doubt he should be considered left.
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Quote from: IRC
22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.

It really is.



"A reformist is someone who realizes that, when you bang your head on a wall, it's the head that breaks rather than the wall."

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Franzl
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« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2011, 10:35:19 am »
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As I've said before....I would have voted Labour at least in 1997 and 2001, maybe 2005.

That's probably not a good sign for left-wing supporters like Antonio about the party Smiley
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« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2011, 10:52:54 am »
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The Blair Government was centre-right.
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change08
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« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2011, 06:04:53 pm »
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Probably the most successful in recent times anyway.
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Phony Moderate
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« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2011, 05:53:02 am »
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....
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dead0man
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« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2011, 06:56:41 am »
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Do center-left govts regularly restrict the freedom to assemble, the internet, religion, movement and the press?  Are they controlled by (virtually) one political party?  The PRC is in no way center-left.
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Antonio V
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« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2011, 07:49:15 am »
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New piece of trolling from our beloved Libertas Kid.
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Quote from: IRC
22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.

It really is.



"A reformist is someone who realizes that, when you bang your head on a wall, it's the head that breaks rather than the wall."

Peppino, from the movie Baaria
Redalgo
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« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2011, 02:54:33 pm »
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Most political spectra in circulation only really apply well to developed Western democracies. In the PRC everything is flipped on its head. Just as in the Russian Federation, people who have "conservative" attitudes tend to be socialist or communist whereas the "liberal" people tend to fancy liberal democracy or at least a shift away from state dominance over the economy. The CPC has internal divides - there are correspondingly "right" and "left" factions within the party that seem backwards from what we are accustomed to.

It is comparing apples to oranges, but I would venture at least in terms of political-economy China does not have a far left government. It never really even had a workers' democracy in the first place, the means of production are not collectively owned, and policies are mixed to the extent that the PRC is not truly socialist. China is still left of centre in some respects, and the current government could be considered successful using certain metrics... still, this would be a pretty tenuous, debatable stretch. So ends my muddled over-analysis of the trollage. O.o

As for Blair, I consider him a centrist like other Third Way types. From what little I know about British government it also seems Labour is not nearly so left-leaning as it once was. I lack sufficient knowledge about the government to rate its alignment or degree of success.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2011, 03:07:03 pm by Redalgo »Logged

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« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2011, 03:06:44 pm »
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Tony continues to be one of my favorite closet right wingers.
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2011, 05:25:58 pm »
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Given my general distate for vacuous bags of smug, I can´t say I have a high opinion of Blair. Though he doesn´t look so bad compared what has followed...
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Keith R Laws ‏@Keith_Laws  Feb 4
As I have noted before 'paradigm shift' is an anagram of 'grasp dim faith'

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« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2011, 11:03:58 pm »
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Given my general distate for vacuous bags of smug, I can´t say I have a high opinion of Blair. Though he doesn´t look so bad compared what has followed...

Vacuous bags of smug, evidentally, sum up modern government in today's United Kingdom.
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« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2011, 11:13:09 pm »
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Gordon Brown was many things (and has been called plenty of others) but vacuous he certainly wasn't...
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"I have become entangled in my own data, and my conclusion stands in direct contradiction to the initial idea from which I started. Proceeding from unlimited freedom, I end with unlimited despotism. I will add, however, that there can be no solution of the social formula except mine."
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« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2011, 07:27:02 am »
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Gordon Brown was many things (and has been called plenty of others) but vacuous he certainly wasn't...

When I said "what followed" I wasn´t referring to Gordon Brown.
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Quote
Keith R Laws ‏@Keith_Laws  Feb 4
As I have noted before 'paradigm shift' is an anagram of 'grasp dim faith'

You kip if you want to...
change08
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« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2011, 09:23:16 am »
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Gordon Brown was many things (and has been called plenty of others) but vacuous he certainly wasn't...

Nooooo, we meant this:


The heir to Blair and well... that one once said that he believes "it's time for promises to be kept".
« Last Edit: January 23, 2011, 12:05:56 pm by Refudiate »Logged

Niemeyerite
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« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2011, 10:29:57 am »
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the most succesful centre-left government was Felipe Gonzalez's. he was president for 14 years, and even with that corruption case, spanish people still like him. and his"ministro" alfredo perez rubalcaba, become vicepresident under zapatero's government and will be the next president of Spain. Also, he was the man who discovered javier solana ^^
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Roma Caput Mundi
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« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2011, 07:30:04 am »
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I still believe Romano Prodi was almost a saint...had to manage a coalition going from demochristians to hardcore communists,did so succesfully for a few years and managed to get us in the Eurozone.
And,of course,beat Berlusconi twice out of two general elections.
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Swedish Cheese
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« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2011, 07:49:40 am »
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I believe the Swedish Social Democratic Goverment from 1994 to 2006 at least deserves an hounerable mention in this thread. Sure it didn't bring much left-wing reform, but then at that point Sweden was already so left-wing there was no place to go but right. Still they managed an impressive 12 years in office.

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« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2011, 08:33:38 am »
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So, everybody nominates their own local left-wing government of the 90s instead? How shocking. But I certainly won't nominate Jospin's government on my part.
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