Wanna get America going again? Pay the poor!

[Ban my account ffs!]

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/03/to-beat-back-poverty-pay-the-poor/?ref=opinion

A very interesting article about the raging success of a cash payment welfare program in Brazil as well as many other nations the world over. 

It would ahve to be a bit different in the U.S., but I think such a program would move us forward.  None of this "here's a penny.. now go spend 40 hours/week looking for a job that isn't there!" crap as inequality rises and poverty rises in the U.S. 

Welfare reform was a raging success on paper... but poverty and inequality are rising faster than ever in the U.S. and most people can't even get assistance.  Many are lucky to get food stamps.. and the number of households in the U.S. that report food stamps as the only form of income has skyrocketed.  That is not sustainable.

I'm sorry to say it... but the rich are going to have to give up some of their incredible success of the past 30 years and start investing back into the U.S. before we all end up in the poor house.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

In 2003, Bush pushed massive estate tax cuts for the rich in 2010 as an economic stimulus. The so called media found no problem with them.  Needless to say, we are not a country of common sense when it comes to stimulus.

[memphis]

Obviously. How many GM cars is Paris Hilton going to buy? Extreme wealth inequality is innately bad for America on so many different levels.

[tpfkaw]

How many GM cars is Paris Hilton going to buy?

The even better question is how many issues of People she's going to sell.  In response to the original question, I'd imagine several large, black SUVs per year for bodyguards.

[cinyc]

Obviously. How many GM cars is Paris Hilton going to buy? Extreme wealth inequality is innately bad for America on so many different levels.

We've been over this many times before.  The US already has the most progressive tax system in the developed world, with the rich paying far more than their fair share compared to other OECD countries.   Attempts to punish the so-called rich in the name of "extreme" wealth inequality that doesn't exist will do no good.

[Ban my account ffs!]

Obviously. How many GM cars is Paris Hilton going to buy? Extreme wealth inequality is innately bad for America on so many different levels.

We've been over this many times before.  The US already has the most progressive tax system in the developed world, with the rich paying far more than their fair share compared to other OECD countries.   Attempts to punish the so-called rich in the name of "extreme" wealth inequality that doesn't exist will do no good.

I can say anything I want to if I just plug my ears and pretend the problem at hand doesn't exist!

[cinyc]

Obviously. How many GM cars is Paris Hilton going to buy? Extreme wealth inequality is innately bad for America on so many different levels.

We've been over this many times before.  The US already has the most progressive tax system in the developed world, with the rich paying far more than their fair share compared to other OECD countries.   Attempts to punish the so-called rich in the name of "extreme" wealth inequality that doesn't exist will do no good.

I can say anything I want to if I just plug my ears and pretend the problem at hand doesn't exist!

You are certainly entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.  The fact is that income inequality in the US is about average for developed countries, and the so-called rich in the US (top 10% of earners) pay the highest share of taxes of any developed country.   Even the poor are pretty rich in the US, especially when compared to countries like Brazil and Mexico.

[dead0man]

I have issues with just handing out free money to people.  I have issues with "make work" BS too.  In the mean time, our infrastructure is falling apart and hundreds of thousands of people sneak over our border to pick our apples and clean our hotel rooms.  It seems to me that if we used a little common sense, we could go a long way to fix all of these issues at the same time.  Sadly most Americans are too good/too entitled to do physical labor for a living and the politicos don't have the will or even desire to do what needs to be done.

[Ban my account ffs!]

Obviously. How many GM cars is Paris Hilton going to buy? Extreme wealth inequality is innately bad for America on so many different levels.

We've been over this many times before.  The US already has the most progressive tax system in the developed world, with the rich paying far more than their fair share compared to other OECD countries.   Attempts to punish the so-called rich in the name of "extreme" wealth inequality that doesn't exist will do no good.

I can say anything I want to if I just plug my ears and pretend the problem at hand doesn't exist!

You are certainly entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.  The fact is that income inequality in the US is about average for developed countries, and the so-called rich in the US (top 10% of earners) pay the highest share of taxes of any developed country.   Even the poor are pretty rich in the US, especially when compared to countries like Brazil and Mexico.

I won't go into the problems with the data used to make those assertions or the source you've used to provide them.

I'm sure I could go somewhere in the world and find a bowl of soup for $50 and proclaim SOUP IS MORE EXPENSIVE THAN AN ALL YOU CAN EAT BUFFET FOR A FAMILY OF FOUR!!!

But when we get back to reality, we realize that things were not in proportion there.  Does the chart you provided me with take into account all federal, state, and local taxes paid?  Does it take into account the trend in poverty within the U.S. or income equality as a whole?

You can say "oh, things aren't so bad"... but they're getting worse.  And that's what us libruls are trying to stop and reverse.  You can joyfully shout all day long about how far the edge of the cliff is from you, Cinyc... but ignoring the fact that you're racing towards it will lead you only to folly.

[opebo]

I'm sorry to say it... but the rich are going to have to give up some of their incredible success of the past 30 years and start investing back into the U.S. before we all end up in the poor house.

Sorry, Snowguy, but what the rich have is not 'success', it is privilege.  Success implies they did something for the wealth, or 'deserve' it, when in fact it was just taken from the poor for them by the State.

...Even the poor are pretty rich in the US, especially when compared to countries like Brazil and Mexico.

Not relative to the cost of living, cinyc.  If your income is zero in the US, you are about $10 short of a proper meal, compared to maybe $1 in the third world.  Similarly you are about $700 short of having a home to sleep in, while the thirdworlder is only about $70 short.  (but of course the point is moot, you die wherever you are with an income of zero).

[krazen1211]

Obviously. How many GM cars is Paris Hilton going to buy? Extreme wealth inequality is innately bad for America on so many different levels.

At least 2.


http://www.autoevolution.com/news/paris-hilton-goes-green-gets-a-hybrid-escalade-11544.html


http://green.autoblog.com/2008/02/12/paris-hilton-i-just-odered-the-new-yukon-hybrid-for-my-birthday/

[memphis]

Obviously. How many GM cars is Paris Hilton going to buy? Extreme wealth inequality is innately bad for America on so many different levels.

At least 2.


http://www.autoevolution.com/news/paris-hilton-goes-green-gets-a-hybrid-escalade-11544.html


http://green.autoblog.com/2008/02/12/paris-hilton-i-just-odered-the-new-yukon-hybrid-for-my-birthday/

Whereas you spread her money amongst a reasonable population and you get 2000. The math's not that hard.

[krazen1211]

Whereas you spread her money amongst a reasonable population and you get 2000. The math's not that hard.

Thankfully I have no desire to do such a thing.

[Ban my account ffs!]

I'm sorry to say it... but the rich are going to have to give up some of their incredible success of the past 30 years and start investing back into the U.S. before we all end up in the poor house.

Sorry, Snowguy, but what the rich have is not 'success', it is privilege.  Success implies they did something for the wealth, or 'deserve' it, when in fact it was just taken from the poor for them by the State.

...Even the poor are pretty rich in the US, especially when compared to countries like Brazil and Mexico.

Not relative to the cost of living, cinyc.  If your income is zero in the US, you are about $10 short of a proper meal, compared to maybe $1 in the third world.  Similarly you are about $700 short of having a home to sleep in, while the thirdworlder is only about $70 short.  (but of course the point is moot, you die wherever you are with an income of zero).

Even a depraved murderer is successful if he gets away with killing somebody, Opebo. 

[memphis]

Whereas you spread her money amongst a reasonable population and you get 2000. The math's not that hard.

Thankfully I have no desire to do such a thing.

So glad you support aristocracy and economic stagnation.

[krazen1211]

Whereas you spread her money amongst a reasonable population and you get 2000. The math's not that hard.

Thankfully I have no desire to do such a thing.

So glad you support aristocracy and economic stagnation.

Talk about hyperbole. We didn't have economic stagnation for 60 years under the old policies.

[memphis]

Whereas you spread her money amongst a reasonable population and you get 2000. The math's not that hard.

Thankfully I have no desire to do such a thing.

So glad you support aristocracy and economic stagnation.

Talk about hyperbole. We didn't have economic stagnation for 60 years under the old policies.

I'm presuming you're talking about the post WWII boom which saw extremely high tax rates on high earners.

[krazen1211]

Whereas you spread her money amongst a reasonable population and you get 2000. The math's not that hard.

Thankfully I have no desire to do such a thing.

So glad you support aristocracy and economic stagnation.

Talk about hyperbole. We didn't have economic stagnation for 60 years under the old policies.

I'm presuming you're talking about the post WWII boom which saw extremely high tax rates on high earners.

Along with much higher levels of defense spending and much lower levels of spending on things like health care and education.

[memphis]

Whereas you spread her money amongst a reasonable population and you get 2000. The math's not that hard.

Thankfully I have no desire to do such a thing.

So glad you support aristocracy and economic stagnation.

Talk about hyperbole. We didn't have economic stagnation for 60 years under the old policies.

I'm presuming you're talking about the post WWII boom which saw extremely high tax rates on high earners.

Along with much higher levels of defense spending and much lower levels of spending on things like health care and education.

Which is not at all what we're talking about. We're talking about taxation, not spending.

[krazen1211]

Which is not at all what we're talking about. We're talking about taxation, not spending.

The original post is about 'paying the poor'. What would you call that if not spending?

[Lief 🗽]

Obviously a modest dole of some sort (enough for healthcare, housing, education, and nutritious food) is necessary, but no so much to get America going again (for that we need pretty massive income redistribution beyond merely giving the poor money by actively taking it away from the rich). It's really just how things should be in a wealthy, industrialized country like this one.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

is there really any point in comparing what is considered poverty in Brazil and what is considered poverty in the US?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The gulf between what is considered undeniable fact in this thread and what is considered as such by mainstreem economists is stunning to say the least.


Wealth redistribution alone, will not get this economy moving again. To say so is both misleading and incorrect. Could it be part of a larger pie, sure. But it certainly isn't the magic bullet some on this forum like to think it is.

[Хahar 🤔]

We really are getting close to the time when we will need to dissolve the political bands that tie some of us together.

Nah, Putin won't be having any of that.

[Lief 🗽]

Here's a thought... perhaps "the poor" should put down the crack, beer, cigarettes and bling and get a job... work hard and better themselves?

Oh, I see. You're a fake poster.