Barnsley Central by-election, 3rd of March 2011
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  Barnsley Central by-election, 3rd of March 2011
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Author Topic: Barnsley Central by-election, 3rd of March 2011  (Read 9875 times)
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Junior Chimp
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« Reply #75 on: March 04, 2011, 03:08:16 PM »

By-elections in this parliament to date:
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #76 on: March 04, 2011, 03:14:05 PM »

Considering that one of those was, you know, Barnsley, that table not mean so much Smiley

Well, mostly. Swings are always of interest, so long as we keep them in context.
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #77 on: March 04, 2011, 03:29:57 PM »

SO... just for the lols... what would happen if, at the next general election, Labour lost 7% of its vote, the LDs 41%, the Tories 64%, the BNP 48%, while UKIP gained 45% in support (percent of their raw vote, all of those, not percentage points.)
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Junior Chimp
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« Reply #78 on: March 04, 2011, 04:31:58 PM »

SO... just for the lols... what would happen if, at the next general election, Labour lost 7% of its vote, the LDs 41%, the Tories 64%, the BNP 48%, while UKIP gained 45% in support (percent of their raw vote, all of those, not percentage points.)

If I actually understand what you mean:

Labour - 8,006,860 (45.69%)
Liberal Democrats - 4,033,726 (23.02%)
Conservatives - 3,853,351 (22.00%)
UKIP - 1,334,484 (7.61%)
BNP - 293,146 (1.67%)

Total - 17,521,567
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #79 on: March 04, 2011, 04:36:35 PM »

Thanks - I was thinking in terms of seats, but that's funny enough. Grin
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Junior Chimp
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« Reply #80 on: March 04, 2011, 07:18:31 PM »

Odds on Clegg still being leader at the end of the year have collapsed today apparently. Down to 2/1...
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redcommander
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« Reply #81 on: March 05, 2011, 12:52:42 AM »

Do the Lib Dems even have a political philosophy anymore?
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Leftbehind
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« Reply #82 on: March 05, 2011, 02:41:44 AM »
« Edited: March 05, 2011, 02:44:09 AM by Leftbehind »

Yes - it's just near-indistinguishable from the Tories'. It's set out in their Orange Book: Reclaiming Liberalism, whose contributors largely make up the current Lib Dem leadership. Think Germany's FDP - conservative liberalism, but with a concern for gay equality and human rights et al. Needless to say, this 4% is about right for such a platform.

Apparently this is the largest drop of a Lib Dem vote in a by-election since Pontypridd, 1989!
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Junior Chimp
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« Reply #83 on: March 05, 2011, 06:49:36 PM »

Yes - it's just near-indistinguishable from the Tories'. It's set out in their Orange Book: Reclaiming Liberalism, whose contributors largely make up the current Lib Dem leadership. Think Germany's FDP - conservative liberalism, but with a concern for gay equality and human rights et al. Needless to say, this 4% is about right for such a platform.

Feel free to shoot me down, but the Orange Bookers in the Liberal Party seem to be more right-wing than a good portion (not all, obviously) of Tory MPs.
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redcommander
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« Reply #84 on: March 05, 2011, 07:20:43 PM »

Yes - it's just near-indistinguishable from the Tories'. It's set out in their Orange Book: Reclaiming Liberalism, whose contributors largely make up the current Lib Dem leadership. Think Germany's FDP - conservative liberalism, but with a concern for gay equality and human rights et al. Needless to say, this 4% is about right for such a platform.

Feel free to shoot me down, but the Orange Bookers in the Liberal Party seem to be more right-wing than a good portion (not all, obviously) of Tory MPs.

Isn't it a very unconservative policy to support adopting the Euro and expanding immigration to the UK though?
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Junior Chimp
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« Reply #85 on: March 05, 2011, 07:26:36 PM »

Yes - it's just near-indistinguishable from the Tories'. It's set out in their Orange Book: Reclaiming Liberalism, whose contributors largely make up the current Lib Dem leadership. Think Germany's FDP - conservative liberalism, but with a concern for gay equality and human rights et al. Needless to say, this 4% is about right for such a platform.

Feel free to shoot me down, but the Orange Bookers in the Liberal Party seem to be more right-wing than a good portion (not all, obviously) of Tory MPs.

Isn't it a very unconservative policy to support adopting the Euro and expanding immigration to the UK though?

Yes, I forgot to mention that I didn't mean on everything. Tongue I mean, you wouldn't find many Tories going round their constituencies talking about marriage equality.
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tpfkaw
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« Reply #86 on: March 05, 2011, 07:43:58 PM »

I must say, the British lefties are making the Lib Dems sound so good I might just have to vote for them if I were British.
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Junior Chimp
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« Reply #87 on: March 05, 2011, 08:43:31 PM »

I must say, the British lefties are making the Lib Dems sound so good I might just have to vote for them if I were British.

You wouldn't have said that last May. They have always campaigned on the ardent center-left, they're governing on the right wing.
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Leftbehind
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« Reply #88 on: March 06, 2011, 06:45:36 AM »

Isn't it a very unconservative policy to support adopting the Euro and expanding immigration to the UK though?

Yes and no. Remember, it was the Tories who brought us into the EEC, and are constantly pining back to a beloved time when the EU was simply a monetary union - a monetary union which has a very conservative-liberal philosophy at its heart. The policies of restrictionless immigration, removal of borders, the competition laws enforced onto former state monopolies and strict requirements on fiscal prudishness are surely all very much free-marketer's policies. Unrestricted immigration is essential in the idea of free movement of labour to go along with free capital. Which is why the biggest opponents of the Tories - the bulk of Labour's left (RIP), Greens, minor socialist parties etc are all invariably hostile to the EU and the only major manifesto promising to remove the UK from the EU was Michael Foot's.

One of the ways Refudiate is right in that many times Orange Book philosophy bypasses the Tories on the right is that the Liberals can actually be freer to promote such radical policies because they're not worrying about their voters' concerns about national conservatism/xenophobia. But, as I say, their voters - Orange bookers - are such an insignificant proportion of the UK electorate that the Lib Dems are on a path for electoral suicide. So:

I must say, the British lefties are making the Lib Dems sound so good I might just have to vote for them if I were British.

...your vote would be wasted as they'll either (almost certainly) distance themselves from such an agenda (remove Clegg and reaffirm their social liberal-ness) or they'll struggle to win a seat.
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Junior Chimp
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« Reply #89 on: March 06, 2011, 10:02:17 AM »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1363388/What-like-despised-man-town-political-correctness-forgot-come-SIXTH-election.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Blame the Orange Bookers.
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