political views tied towards hobbies
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Username MechaRFK
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« Reply #50 on: October 28, 2011, 02:29:47 PM »


b) How's sociology not a 'real' science? What's with you Americans and the disdain for sociology? Never ever noted anything simmilar to that here in Europe.


The conservative culture in the United States that is the majority population makes it tough for them to accept sociology as real science. And then some of those anti-sociology will turn around and accept creationism as something to be teach in school. Not all conservatives are alike though, so I can't say all  conservatives disdain sociology. I never see this behavior  coming from liberals.
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TJ in Oregon
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« Reply #51 on: October 28, 2011, 02:38:56 PM »

To me "real sciences" are things like thermodynamics, physical chemistry, electrostatics, E&M, statistical mechanics, etc.

Things that are more"real science" than not are areas like geology and biology because even though they discribe natural processes in scientific detail (ie. in terms of energy, mass, chemistry, etc.), they are often a little more qualitative than quantitative in nature.

Fields like sociology and phych I consider to be "social sciences". They are about as similar to hard science as economics and accounting are.

At the far opposite extreme are philosophy, law, arts, and English literature.
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Politico
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« Reply #52 on: October 28, 2011, 04:19:01 PM »
« Edited: October 28, 2011, 04:41:52 PM by Politico »

Actually, Pierre Bourdieu was a philosophy major who switched his area of study when he realized philosophy was grandiosely pointless. I don't think you can assume someone is in a social science field because they "can't handle" studying the hard sciences; that's just a silly thing to say.

If one is interested in analyzing human behavior, economics and psychology are real sciences that adhere to the scientific method. Even if we ignore the lack of appreciation for the scientific method in sociology, the problem with the subject is that it tries to be everything and ends up being nothing. As such, nobody who is serious takes it seriously. It is easily the joke of the social sciences, the redheaded stepchild if you will, and anybody who has become a sociologist in the last twenty years is almost surely incapable of developing a mastering of one of the two aforementioned subjects (hence their pursuit of sociology instead). If you ask me, it does not even belong in the same category as political science, a subject that actually has a place in the world by virtue of its specialization. The same cannot be said of sociology.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #53 on: October 29, 2011, 05:15:30 PM »


It depends on the definition of science, and that's why there's a problem (as far as this could ever been seen as a problem). Still, if economics and psychology can be considered as 'sciences' entirely and without question, then there's really no logical reason not to include sociology as well...

Of course, if this is a problem, then the real problem is the insistence that an academic subject must be a 'science' in order to have any value. Which, frankly, is just a bigotry, and a particularly petty one at that.

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I don't know entirely, but a lot of it will be to do with the unusual nature (both now and in the past) of American sociology. There was for a long period of time a massive emphasis on quantitative research aimed at supporting the status quo from a positivist perspective (now the tendency is just to produce reams and reams of quantitative research with no particular purpose whatsoever; only a slight exaggeration). The Chicago School (which argued that cities were essentially organisms) were especially influential, and American universities were strongholds of Functionalism decades after that approach had become a stock joke in European departments.

Though one of the American reactions to Functionalism (Ethnomethodology) was/is a pretty hilarious piece of IRL trolling.
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #54 on: October 30, 2011, 05:29:37 AM »
« Edited: October 30, 2011, 05:31:24 AM by The Goy's Teeth »

American conservatives and libertarians are the last people in the world fto attack people for holding supposedly pseudo-scientific views on socioeconomic issues. That chart is a bit silly though.
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #55 on: October 30, 2011, 05:32:32 AM »

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LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL...........
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Gustaf
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« Reply #56 on: October 30, 2011, 05:33:04 AM »

My impression of sociology is certainly that it is a bit of a joke.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #57 on: April 18, 2015, 04:19:50 AM »

None of you are demonstrating real links here. I'd be inclined to think that hobbies are correlated with demographics which in turn influence politics. Black people watch basketball and black people vote Democratic. Not sure if the sport itself has much to do with the politics. You'd need conditional comparisons for that.
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Simfan34
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« Reply #58 on: April 18, 2015, 12:03:19 PM »
« Edited: April 18, 2015, 12:04:59 PM by Governor Simfan34 »

I don't watch many sports, but of those I probably watch soccer the most- albeit very rarely. So soccer watching Republican?

And the opera, the philharmonic, museums, etc.
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DemPGH
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« Reply #59 on: April 18, 2015, 03:40:24 PM »

Motorsports in the USA mesh very well with conservative notions about masculinity. No doubting that. Engines, aggressive driving, I can go faster than you and not wreck, 'let 'er rip!' etc.

I would think baseball would admit the most people of a liberal bent than any sport here. People like Ken Burns and Doris Goodwin are baseball fans, for instance. There's the social progress, color barrier, it's very 19th-20th century American, and it's also not a physical sport.

I go against the grain being a huge NFL fan - I grew up with it and I love the strategic game-planning/play-calling part of it, but I also enjoy physical activity, so who knows. It probably admits a lot of conservatives for the same reason that motorsports do.
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Phony Moderate
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« Reply #60 on: April 19, 2015, 02:54:20 AM »

Motorsports in the USA mesh very well with conservative notions about masculinity. No doubting that. Engines, aggressive driving, I can go faster than you and not wreck, 'let 'er rip!' etc.

I would think baseball would admit the most people of a liberal bent than any sport here. People like Ken Burns and Doris Goodwin are baseball fans, for instance. There's the social progress, color barrier, it's very 19th-20th century American, and it's also not a physical sport.

I go against the grain being a huge NFL fan - I grew up with it and I love the strategic game-planning/play-calling part of it, but I also enjoy physical activity, so who knows. It probably admits a lot of conservatives for the same reason that motorsports do.

...and yet golf (also not a physical sport) is probably the most right-wing major sport.
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TheDeadFlagBlues
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« Reply #61 on: April 19, 2015, 06:18:28 PM »

I'd argue that niche subcultures can have a pretty profound impact on people's political views. I don't think liberals necessarily gravitate towards film or art or music but when people do gravitate towards these hobbies, they become surrounded by leftists and liberals, which influences how they think about politics.  I'd argue that the more specific, niche and tight-knit subcultures exert a stronger influence on political views. It's also worth noting that hobbies are often politicized: hunting, fishing, "shooting" and other outdoor activities are regulated by the state. Attending "punk" house shows places interested listeners in opposition to the police, even if they're white and otherwise privileged. Fans of EDM or psychedelic music tend to be comfortable with drug use or partake in drug use, which places them in opposition to the police and mainstream political rhetoric.

I'd wager that Baseball is less right-wing than people would imagine: it's highly popular in rural areas of "blue" states in the Midwest and New England. There are also many avid Latino baseball fans in cities like New York and LA. Chicanos had a brief love affair with the Dodgers; Puerto Ricans and Dominicans love Baseball. Arguably, Puerto Ricans, Cubans and Dominicans are demographics most interested in baseball.
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Indy Texas
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« Reply #62 on: April 19, 2015, 07:06:50 PM »

I'd wager that Baseball is less right-wing than people would imagine: it's highly popular in rural areas of "blue" states in the Midwest and New England. There are also many avid Latino baseball fans in cities like New York and LA. Chicanos had a brief love affair with the Dodgers; Puerto Ricans and Dominicans love Baseball. Arguably, Puerto Ricans, Cubans and Dominicans are demographics most interested in baseball.

I've read that MLB fans on the whole tend to be wealthier, better educated and whiter than sports fans in the aggregate in the US.
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Sprouts Farmers Market ✘
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« Reply #63 on: April 19, 2015, 07:20:39 PM »

Don't underestimate its popularity in the South either, especially among whites. Look at where the college game prevails. The SEC, southern ACC schools and Pac-11 (minus the Washington schools) plus Texas schools including some pretty obscure ones.
And it's not just fandom like it is with college football. A lot of them are ingrained in the culture of actually playing it too judging by the antics associated with college teams. I won't deny it's popularity in the north (Especially rural areas as you mentioned), but I think urban growth appears to be slowing and even in the rural areas, it can't be done year-round. Doesn't hurt the professional fandom as Yankees/Red Sox are huge and I'm sure the Midwest cares a lot too. But from what I've seen, even the urban white players are extremely culturally conservative. 
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