WV-PPP: All Republicans ahead of Obama

[InsaneTrollLogic]

It is interesting that Texas seems to be a better place to look for a mandate than West Virginia or even Montana, but I bet things can be turned around in Montana and even Arizona.

[Guderian]

So, West Virginians prefer a phony Mormon multimillionaire to Obama.
And they wonder why their state is considered a joke .

how did Dukakis win west Virginia?

Back then they voted based on their economic interests, not on who got the endorsement of NRA and Right to Life.

If upper-middle class voted according to their economic interests, Republicans would storm through suburbs like Papa Bush did, so the tradeoff has obviously benefited the Democrats.

[Landslide Lyndon]

So, West Virginians prefer a phony Mormon multimillionaire to Obama.
And they wonder why their state is considered a joke .

how did Dukakis win west Virginia?

Back then they voted based on their economic interests, not on who got the endorsement of NRA and Right to Life.

If upper-middle class voted according to their economic interests, Republicans would storm through suburbs like Papa Bush did, so the tradeoff has obviously benefited the Democrats.

Besides the fact that most suburbs are swingy (Philly, Chicago, Detroit) or Republican (Houston, Atlanta, Phoenix), money aren't of much use if somebody wants to put your dick in a jar.

[opebo]

... the coal industry ... now - as in most other places - is dominated by small drift mines (yeah, that's not the American term, but you know what I mean) and various forms of opencast mining.

Does 'various forms of opencast mining' include the very large mines that are, by my very inattentive understanding, the source of much of the coal produced in developed countries, from places like Wyoming and Australia?

[Sibboleth]

... the coal industry ... now - as in most other places - is dominated by small drift mines (yeah, that's not the American term, but you know what I mean) and various forms of opencast mining.

Does 'various forms of opencast mining' include the very large mines that are, by my very inattentive understanding, the source of much of the coal produced in developed countries, from places like Wyoming and Australia?

Yeah; basically coal quarries. Of course the geography of the central Appalachian coalfield means that you have some very unusual forms of opencast mines.

[pbrower2a]

So, West Virginians prefer a phony Mormon multimillionaire to Obama.
And they wonder why their state is considered a joke .

how did Dukakis win west Virginia?

Back then they voted based on their economic interests, not on who got the endorsement of NRA and Right to Life.

If upper-middle class voted according to their economic interests, Republicans would storm through suburbs like Papa Bush did, so the tradeoff has obviously benefited the Democrats.

But it gets more complicated. Suburbia has become legitimately urban as it loses whatever rural character it once had. When Suburbia was new, Republicans could reliably win the votes of midde-class suburbanites with the appeal that they were (1) good for the firms that middle-class people worked for, (2) likely to reduce taxes, (3) were willing to risk recessions to stop inflation and thus friends of savers, (4) friendly to small business, (5) largely white, and (6) well-suited to the image of self-reliance that used to be a middle-class trait.  

The idyllic image of Suburbia is no more. It is now legitimately urban, with urban problems: pollution, crime, drugs, traffic jams, and deteriorating infrastructure. Suburbia remains largely middle-class, but the middle class no longer trusts the bosses as it used to. It used to have much of its wealth in savings accounts vulnerable to inflation; pressure on wages (due to collaboration between the GOP and Big Business) has squeezed incomes enough that saving is now a heroic activity than a sign of restraint. The middle class is often heavily in debt for mortgage and auto loans among the more prudent and older ones -- but also for student loans that have allowed them to grasp onto or hold onto the middle class status and jobs that used to be easier to get. It is now concerned with public services from police protection to public schools. It depends heavily upon state universities for schooling and wants them funded. Small business? Giant corporations in manufacturing, finance, fast food and chain restaurants, and box stores have crowded out many of the arch-conservative entrepreneurs.

The GOP has heavily relied upon promises of tax cuts, but as commutes get longer and routes get more congested, the tax cuts become a poor substitute for good roads. Suburbia has also become less lily-white than it once was. White suburbanites are becoming less scared of non-whites than they used to be.

One day I was going through satellite radio and I noticed, along with the ideological content, a stark difference between "America Left" (identity obvious) and "Patriot Radio"  (right). On America Left I heard several ads for credit-relief entities. Ads on Patriot Radio, in contrast, were pushing gold. Credit relief is, of course, for people heavily in debt. Gold is for people afraid of a devalued currency. The pattern is hardly new. Creditors have tended toward the Right (this pattern goes back at least to the 18th century in America if not elsewhere); debtors who have no vested interest in the 'sanctity' of the value of money tend toward the Left.

[Badger]

Racism is everywhere, but it's important to note that Obama's percentage wasn't much different than Kerry's, so I don't know how much race actually factored in.

Except while the Democratic vote jumped 5 points nationally from 2004, it dropped a point in WV. Its tough to argue the whole "that region just doesn't like liberals and leftie social views" when John Freaking Kerry did better there before voters were fed up with Iraq and the economy was crashing. I hate to say it but I'm having trouble finding an explanation beyond race. WV's economy, and thus its politics, have been shifting away from union power as Al explained, but was there that much of a watershed just between 04 and 08?

The only other theory I can come up with is there were infinitely more bad rumors about Obama (Muslim, foreign born, terrorist sympathizer, etc) than Kerry (he got slimed by the swift boaters, but otherwise not a victim of rumors), and that played better to WV voters than elsewhere. Sadly, I'm not sure how much a compliment it is to say they're not racist, but rather incredibly gullible towards whatever they read on the internet.

[A-Bob]

At first I read the title as WI I was so excited

Still, that is very weak for Palin, I was thinking this would be a stronghold of her...

[Badger]

At first I read the title as WI I was so excited

Still, that is very weak for Palin, I was thinking this would be a stronghold of her...

It is. Have you seen how she's doing in other states' polls?

[Fmr. Emperor PiT]

Racism is everywhere, but it's important to note that Obama's percentage wasn't much different than Kerry's, so I don't know how much race actually factored in.

Except while the Democratic vote jumped 5 points nationally from 2004, it dropped a point in WV. Its tough to argue the whole "that region just doesn't like liberals and leftie social views" when John Freaking Kerry did better there before voters were fed up with Iraq and the economy was crashing. I hate to say it but I'm having trouble finding an explanation beyond race. WV's economy, and thus its politics, have been shifting away from union power as Al explained, but was there that much of a watershed just between 04 and 08?

The only other theory I can come up with is there were infinitely more bad rumors about Obama (Muslim, foreign born, terrorist sympathizer, etc) than Kerry (he got slimed by the swift boaters, but otherwise not a victim of rumors), and that played better to WV voters than elsewhere. Sadly, I'm not sure how much a compliment it is to say they're not racist, but rather incredibly gullible towards whatever they read on the internet.

     Racism is most likely part of the answer, but it's also worth noting that WV seems to be pulling a slow-motion, reverse VT. 1988 was the last time it did not trend Republican from the previous election. Even if Dukakis were indeed boosted by a Republican scandal, it seems a little odd for him to fare better relative to the national average there than Bill Clinton.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

Racism is most likely part of the answer, but it's also worth noting that WV seems to be pulling a slow-motion, reverse VT.

Something tells me West Virginia might have become a "Vermont south" if it wasn't for the DLC gumming things up.

[A-Bob]

At first I read the title as WI I was so excited

Still, that is very weak for Palin, I was thinking this would be a stronghold of her...

It is. Have you seen how she's doing in other states' polls?

I actually thought she'd have a decent lead here, I mean being tied up in Texas is scary to...

[Fuzzybigfoot]

Racism is everywhere, but it's important to note that Obama's percentage wasn't much different than Kerry's, so I don't know how much race actually factored in.

I think it factored a lot, but I also think it was because he never really contested it.  Obama lost a lot of the vote in the industrial south, during a recession, an unpopular Republican president, all while facing one of the dumbest campaigns recorded to date.  I can't see race being the prime factor for this shift. 

[Landslide Lyndon]

Have we forgotten that video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODaxZSz3Awg

It's really hilarious seeing these rednecks tied into knots, trying to justify their racism.

[Vasall des Midas]

It could be that President Obama is simply the wrong sort of Democrat to win West Virginia.  

Could be.

Makes the 2010 midterms in WVa even more of a wtf... I mean, Nick Rahall's one of two pro-healthcare votes in McCain districts to survive, and it wasn't even close. And the other's a special case as Obama won the districts matching its profile that are not located in McCain's homestate.