MA: Child Support Act (Statute)

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

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Sponsor: Afleitch

[afleitch]

Just to repost my reasoning behind this bill.#

I note that the 'Abortion Reduction' Act is not yet law as a regional budget has not been passed. As I explained (and I am willing to regurgitate) the bill is not only unworkable but makes assumptions about the reasons why child support is not made. While it presumes that such people like to gamble it all away in casinos (I'd have thought it more likely they waste it down the pub myself if we're resorting to sterotypes...), it also seems to infer that people won't be able to pay a $25,000 fine so will be probably end up in prison either instead of the fine or due to non-payment. Where of course they will not have access to their child and will not have the opportunity to work to support the child. Indeed the child gets nothing of any material or financial value out of this part of the Act.

The $1000 health care reduction and associated funds have been removed. This is uneccesary; the Atlasian Health Care Act provides universal healthcare. Instead I have included a provision that the court may, through it's discretion allow the payment of any fine go directly to the child or the main parent/guardian for their benefit.

[California8429]

Can we get the section in there that bans the deadbeat parents from gambling or hunting until they pay their child support payments?

[tmthforu94]

Can we get the section in there that bans the deadbeat parents from gambling or hunting until they pay their child support payments?

*Jumps in*

I like the idea of forbidding the parents from gambling, but I still think it unwise to keep them from hunting. That's a valuable food source to many Mideasterners.

*Jumps out*

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I'm against legislating a different status for the employed vs. unemployed in the criminal law.  
The amount of a fine should be related to ability to pay, but this needs to be done on a case by case basis anyway because that is not the same as employment status.
What is the point of the drivers license suspension ? That seems in most cases counterproductive to future child support payments if a person cannot drive to a job.

[afleitch]

Can we get the section in there that bans the deadbeat parents from gambling or hunting until they pay their child support payments?

Part of the reason Governor, why I removed that whole section was because of how arbitary it was; it makes assumptions about the people who don't make child maintenance payments. Many people who hold down a good well paid job and lead a 'clean' life also fail to pay maintenance. Why single out 'gambling and hunting'; why not betting on greyhounds, drinking at bars, buying liquor or buying cigarettes? It seems a bizzare thing to single out.

That's why I replaced it with the power to suspend a persons driving license; that's a bigger and far more effective hit.

[afleitch]

I'm against legislating a different status for the employed vs. unemployed in the criminal law.

It is a preface to allow the courts to suspend social security payments. I don't mind amending this part.

The amount of a fine should be related to ability to pay, but this needs to be done on a case by case basis anyway because that is not the same as employment status.

I quite agree. The courts will be allowed to set the fine as they see fit. It just reduces the proposed fine maximum from $25,000 as it now stands.

What is the point of the drivers license suspension ? That seems in most cases counterproductive to future child support payments if a person cannot drive to a job.

It does. But the effects of a 60 day max suspension are far less than the effect of 3 years imprisonment which is in the original legislation.

[California8429]

Can we get the section in there that bans the deadbeat parents from gambling or hunting until they pay their child support payments?

Part of the reason Governor, why I removed that whole section was because of how arbitary it was; it makes assumptions about the people who don't make child maintenance payments. Many people who hold down a good well paid job and lead a 'clean' life also fail to pay maintenance. Why single out 'gambling and hunting'; why not betting on greyhounds, drinking at bars, buying liquor or buying cigarettes? It seems a bizzare thing to single out.

That's why I replaced it with the power to suspend a persons driving license; that's a bigger and far more effective hit.

How is gambling bizarre? These are people who are supposed to pay child support payments and are gambling the money they should be giving for the kid. I can live without hunting license being revoked, but not without the gambling measure. My goal here is to get the child support payments paid, this does just that. Sure it doesn't apply to every single person that isn't paying, but it has effects.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

We discussed suspending drivers' licenses the first time we did this, and agreed that that would probably dod more harm than good, as it greatly reduces people's ability to get to their place of employment (if they have one), especially in areas that lack public transportation.

[afleitch]

We discussed suspending drivers' licenses the first time we did this, and agreed that that would probably dod more harm than good, as it greatly reduces people's ability to get to their place of employment (if they have one), especially in areas that lack public transportation.

But you were happy to give them up to 3 years in the slammer? So instead of restricted access to getting to work they were in a position to loose their job? I'm happy to re-instate limitations to the 'gambling' part though I really have no idea why any bill should resort to stereotype. Again I ask the Governor; why make this assumption restrict gambling but not restrict access to liquor which can also drain the wallet?

[California8429]

We discussed suspending drivers' licenses the first time we did this, and agreed that that would probably dod more harm than good, as it greatly reduces people's ability to get to their place of employment (if they have one), especially in areas that lack public transportation.

But you were happy to give them up to 3 years in the slammer? So instead of restricted access to getting to work they were in a position to loose their job? I'm happy to re-instate limitations to the 'gambling' part though I really have no idea why any bill should resort to stereotype. Again I ask the Governor; why make this assumption restrict gambling but not restrict access to liquor which can also drain the wallet?

If the Assembly passes that I'll be fine with, but really the bill as it is is much weaker than the originial, I understand changes, but a lot more can be done.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I'm against legislating a different status for the employed vs. unemployed in the criminal law.

It is a preface to allow the courts to suspend social security payments. I don't mind amending this part.

suspending social security payments themselves would have to be a federal responsibility, i think.
but i suppose they could be intercepted, along with tax returns? which brings up the question - is all this in addition to wage garnishment? if not, that needs to be in here.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

We discussed suspending drivers' licenses the first time we did this, and agreed that that would probably dod more harm than good, as it greatly reduces people's ability to get to their place of employment (if they have one), especially in areas that lack public transportation.

But you were happy to give them up to 3 years in the slammer? So instead of restricted access to getting to work they were in a position to loose their job? I'm happy to re-instate limitations to the 'gambling' part though I really have no idea why any bill should resort to stereotype. Again I ask the Governor; why make this assumption restrict gambling but not restrict access to liquor which can also drain the wallet?

I don't remember why we put that in there... but I'd be fine with removing that section of it.

[afleitch]

So who wants what amended?

I'll put the casino thing in despite it not making the slightest bit of sense. I can get rid the differentiation between employed and unemployed. I'm very reluctant to remove the drivers license suspension. To deem it 'too harsh' when it replaces a maximum 3 year prison sentence and a maximum fine higher than the average annual wage is head scratching to say the least.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I suppose the drivers license suspension may be useful in some cases even if not in most, so I'm okay leaving it in there as an option.

would you accept this amendment as friendly?

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[afleitch]

Accepted as friendly. It's a good amendment.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

As of now, the bill stands as follows:

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[The Artist Formerly Known As and Now Again Known As Ogis]

Should we really be giving the power to judge the validity of the payments back to the courts? As it stands, the final section gives the government the authority to make the payment to the children in full, but doesn't necessarily obligate the government to do so.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Does anybody else have amendments to offer to this?

[California8429]

Section 2c. shall read

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[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Voting is now open on the following amendment (added text in bold).  This will be a 24 hour vote:

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[/quote]

[The Artist Formerly Known As and Now Again Known As Ogis]

aye

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

AYE

[afleitch]

Aye

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

Aye