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Author Topic: The Millennial Generation has produced nothing of note culturally.  (Read 1188 times)
Oldiesfreak1854
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« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2014, 08:24:31 pm »
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They will eventually.  Give us time.
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« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2014, 10:50:56 pm »
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Of course our current time seems boring, we're living in it.

Slightly off-topic, but I genuinely get a kick out of the fact that in 50 years' time my grandchildren will be coming up to me and asking how it was like to live through the height of the "same sex marriage movement" just like how I asked my grandparents how it was like to live during the Civil Rights Era of the 1960s.  Just like my grandparents did me, I won't have anything especially insightful to say and my grandchildren will think that I'm either a bigot who has yet to change his ways or that I spent the better-part of my young adulthood under a rock.       
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« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2014, 10:52:34 pm »
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Of course our current time seems boring, we're living in it.

Slightly off-topic, but I genuinely get a kick out of the fact that in 50 years' time my grandchildren will be coming up to me and asking how it was like to live through the height of the "same sex marriage movement" just like how I asked my grandparents how it was like to live during the Civil Rights Era of the 1960s.  Just like my grandparents did me, I won't have anything especially insightful to say and my grandchildren will think that I'm either a bigot who has yet to change his ways or that I spent the better-part of my young adulthood under a rock.       

just come up with good stories so it sounds like you're on the right side of history
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« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2014, 10:57:10 pm »
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Of course our current time seems boring, we're living in it.

Slightly off-topic, but I genuinely get a kick out of the fact that in 50 years' time my grandchildren will be coming up to me and asking how it was like to live through the height of the "same sex marriage movement" just like how I asked my grandparents how it was like to live during the Civil Rights Era of the 1960s.  Just like my grandparents did me, I won't have anything especially insightful to say and my grandchildren will think that I'm either a bigot who has yet to change his ways or that I spent the better-part of my young adulthood under a rock.       

just come up with good stories so it sounds like you're on the right side of history

I wouldn't be surprised if their schoolbooks had pictures of Southern Baptists spraying gays with firehoses LOL
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« Reply #29 on: June 30, 2014, 12:46:14 am »

Of course our current time seems boring, we're living in it.

Slightly off-topic, but I genuinely get a kick out of the fact that in 50 years' time my grandchildren will be coming up to me and asking how it was like to live through the height of the "same sex marriage movement" just like how I asked my grandparents how it was like to live during the Civil Rights Era of the 1960s.  Just like my grandparents did me, I won't have anything especially insightful to say and my grandchildren will think that I'm either a bigot who has yet to change his ways or that I spent the better-part of my young adulthood under a rock.       

just come up with good stories so it sounds like you're on the right side of history

"I supported it from the word go in Massachusetts in 2003.  I never had a problem with those gay people."

kids wince at the use of the outdated term "gay," chalk it down to grandpa Mikado's homophobia.
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ingemann
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« Reply #30 on: June 30, 2014, 11:11:54 am »
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Modern art, music, film etc are no more inane and empty than their counterparts in the past. People produce crap now, as they did in the past. This fake nostalgia for a time people have not experienced is ridiculous.
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Clarko95
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« Reply #31 on: June 30, 2014, 07:03:16 pm »
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Heh. For once you have a point on culture, though I am not the type who whines about "being born in the wrong generation."

Where is this generation's Bob Dylan? He/She is out there somewhere.


Probably just graduating high school and looking forward to drowning in student loans they can't pay off in the future with minimum wage jobs. Damn people, the youngest members are anywhere from 15 to still being born (depending on your end year).

Give it some time.
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« Reply #32 on: July 01, 2014, 06:57:57 am »
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If only people weren't so STUPID nowadays we might be able to revive the 1960s, where all my favorites bands ejaculated sonic tidal waves of soulful artistic mastery on an audience so enlightened, intelligent and receptive that the #1 single of 1969 was a cartoon
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« Reply #33 on: July 01, 2014, 08:56:24 am »
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This thread (ignoring who it was started by, lol) completely seems to ignore that we recently just ended (or are at the tail end of) what has been dubbed the "New Golden Age" of television - where the medium's ability of storytelling and artistic integrity grew leaps and bounds and evolved the medium to an extent that we've never seen before, causing the influence of television to surpass that of film.

Film is another important landmark to note, as the films of the mid-2000s saw a revival of artistry and auteurism that wasn't seen in the industry since the 1970s.

Modern art, music, film etc are no more inane and empty than their counterparts in the past. People produce crap now, as they did in the past. This fake nostalgia for a time people have not experienced is ridiculous.

Also, this.
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« Reply #34 on: July 01, 2014, 01:04:54 pm »
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The fact that so many books still name the Beatles "the greatest or most significant or most influential" rock band ever only tells you how far rock music still is from becoming a serious art. Jazz critics have long recognized that the greatest jazz musicians of all times are Duke Ellington and John Coltrane, who were not the most famous or richest or best sellers of their times, let alone of all times. Classical critics rank the highly controversial Beethoven over classical musicians who were highly popular in courts around Europe. Rock critics are still blinded by commercial success: the Beatles sold more than anyone else (not true, by the way), therefore they must have been the greatest. Jazz critics grow up listening to a lot of jazz music of the past, classical critics grow up listening to a lot of classical music of the past. Rock critics are often totally ignorant of the rock music of the past, they barely know the best sellers. No wonder they will think that the Beatles did anything worth of being saved.
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« Reply #35 on: July 01, 2014, 02:00:26 pm »
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The fact that so many books still name the Beatles "the greatest or most significant or most influential" rock band ever only tells you how far rock music still is from becoming a serious art. Jazz critics have long recognized that the greatest jazz musicians of all times are Duke Ellington and John Coltrane, who were not the most famous or richest or best sellers of their times, let alone of all times. Classical critics rank the highly controversial Beethoven over classical musicians who were highly popular in courts around Europe. Rock critics are still blinded by commercial success: the Beatles sold more than anyone else (not true, by the way), therefore they must have been the greatest. Jazz critics grow up listening to a lot of jazz music of the past, classical critics grow up listening to a lot of classical music of the past. Rock critics are often totally ignorant of the rock music of the past, they barely know the best sellers. No wonder they will think that the Beatles did anything worth of being saved.

I agree with your general point, the pioneering acts from the 40's/50's except Elvis are being forgotten everyday. Folks like Big Joe Turner, Bill Haley, Louis Jordan and Fats Domino built the genre and most people today wouldn't have any clue who they are or their importance. Yet through my own research and self exploration in the music of the last decade, The Beatles are still imo the most important act in rock music and their sales/popularity is only part of their equation. They synthesized all the music that came before them into something new and almost everyone to come after them were influenced by the Beatles or an act that was influenced by The Beatles. 
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traininthedistance
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« Reply #36 on: July 01, 2014, 04:16:55 pm »
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The fact that so many books still name the Beatles "the greatest or most significant or most influential" rock band ever only tells you how far rock music still is from becoming a serious art. Jazz critics have long recognized that the greatest jazz musicians of all times are Duke Ellington and John Coltrane, who were not the most famous or richest or best sellers of their times, let alone of all times. Classical critics rank the highly controversial Beethoven over classical musicians who were highly popular in courts around Europe. Rock critics are still blinded by commercial success: the Beatles sold more than anyone else (not true, by the way), therefore they must have been the greatest. Jazz critics grow up listening to a lot of jazz music of the past, classical critics grow up listening to a lot of classical music of the past. Rock critics are often totally ignorant of the rock music of the past, they barely know the best sellers. No wonder they will think that the Beatles did anything worth of being saved.

How le edgy of you.  Also, Beethoven was in fact rock-star popular by the standards of his day.  He wasn't as financially successful as a Salieri because he didn't have a patron or write much of what was the most lucrative genre (opera), and he was a bit of a spendthrift... but to call him some forgotten non-commercial gem who was picked up by later generations who rediscovered his genius is, well, 100 percent wrong.  Mozart's situation was very similar- he probably made more money but was even worse at keeping it.

Now, J.S. Bach, he was considered kind of stuffy and provincial in his day, and was forgotten, and had to be reintroduced to the public by Mendelssohn, so he might actually be a plausible example.  But part of the reason he was forgotten was that everything Baroque was more or less forgotten, and a lot of the great active composers of that time still knew he was a whiz at counterpoint, and worth studying for that.  Perhaps you could make an analogy to Robert Johnson or something (though of course Bach was far more prolific, among other traits).

And, if rock critics care so much about album sales, why do they love the Velvet Underground but not the Eagles?  There's a lot more to the Beatles hagiography than commercial success, and deservedly so.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 04:31:44 pm by traininthedistance »Logged



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« Reply #37 on: July 02, 2014, 01:08:59 am »
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Musicians have been incredibly productive in their 20's, and I think it's fair to argue that millenials haven't matched the output of previous generations, at least so far.

But I don't think you can extend the argument beyond music. The oldest millenial is in their mid-30's, and imo most creative people don't really get a chance to shine until they've spent their 20's and 30's gaining experience and working in lower-level positions.
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« Reply #38 on: July 02, 2014, 04:18:54 pm »
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Another note, if we assume that the Strauss-Howe cyclical generations/turnings theory holds any water then we really shouldn't be surprised that our current popular cultural hasn't produced anything of real substance.

The analogous point in the previous cycle to where we are today would probably be the later 1930s, and I don't remember anything of especial cultural merit being produced during that time (at least not in the United States).  Popular culture then, like today, seemed rather kitsch and juvenile.  Of course, this would make sense, as then (much like today) artists and musicians were approached with a certain level of skepticism by the general public for not channelling the fullness of their efforts into propelling the society-wide institutional reorganization.

Just some more food for thought. 
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« Reply #39 on: July 02, 2014, 04:26:40 pm »
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Another note, if we assume that the Strauss-Howe cyclical generations/turnings theory holds any water then we really shouldn't be surprised that our current popular cultural hasn't produced anything of real substance.

The analogous point in the previous cycle to where we are today would probably be the later 1930s, and I don't remember anything of especial cultural merit being produced during that time (at least not in the United States).  Popular culture then, like today, seemed rather kitsch and juvenile.  Of course, this would make sense, as then (much like today) artists and musicians were approached with a certain level of skepticism by the general public for not channelling the fullness of their efforts into propelling the society-wide institutional reorganization.

Just some more food for thought. 

Wizard of Oz
Snow White and the 7 Dwarves

The Hobbit
Brave New World
Grapes of Wrath
Of Mice and Men
As I Lay Dying

Batman and Superman comics
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« Reply #40 on: July 02, 2014, 04:30:36 pm »
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Can this thread f off already?
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« Reply #41 on: July 02, 2014, 05:14:17 pm »
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Wizard of Oz
Snow White and the 7 Dwarves

Yeah, 1939 is often considered the greatest year in Hollywood ever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1939_in_film
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Reaganfan
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« Reply #42 on: July 03, 2014, 02:36:17 am »
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Moreover, technology has also relieved budgetary and technical limitations on producing culture. Creators no longer need to appeal to mass audience to survive, and plenty of them choose not too.

This, more than anything else, is the important takeaway of this generation. We've basically seen, if not the death of, then at least the severe decline in influence of the mono-culture. When we think of past decades, there is often a few large distinguishing things that encompassed all of pop culture. Tye-dye, grunge rock, bell bottoms, flannel, pong, disco, whatever.

These broad cultural touchstones don't really exist in the same way today; everything's too decentralized now. People don't watch the same 6 o'clock news channel, they watch their network of choice. People don't read the paper, they follow their own collection of websites. YouTube videos instead of mainstream television, indie flicks over the summer blockbuster. I've spent the last several days watching Summer Games Done Quick. It appeals to such a subculture of a subculture of a subculture, and you're not going not going to see most people on the street have even the slightest clue what that is or why it exists, but people in that group live and breathe it.

Subcultures have always existed, obviously, but the ease with which the internet has allowed them to come into being and thrive on the support of a tiny group of instantly-connected individuals mostly just means that the "millennial generation's" cultural contribution will be that you can now easily create your own instead.

This is it. People used to watch the same TV shows, the same news, TV was a big thing and unless you had 80s style cable, your options were limited.

Also, movies in theaters took a long time to be released onto VHS or even Betamax and many people didn't even own a VCR. My family got a VCR in '90 or '91 I believe. My father told me he remembers watching "Romancing the Stone" on a Betamax tape around 1985 or so.

But I often fall for what I call the "2000 curse". Even to this day, when someone references "...twenty years ago..." my mind immediately thinks the year 1980 or so. However, twenty years ago would actually be the Summer of 1994. So in my mind perhaps our pop culture of the "good old days" is more recent than it even is.

Check out this NBC promo from 1985:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8NMtQabci0

The next day, a Friday, people could be at work and would be discussing President Reagan's address, or something funny that happened on Cheers or who Johnny Carson had on that night's show.

Now, you no longer have that. You have someone who doesn't watch TV, then someone who only watches reality TV. Even current hit shows average no more than 20 million viewers. Back in the day, even mediocre shows averaged more viewers than that. Our threads are being separated.

But I do get the impression that younger people today just don't care. I remember a newsstory from an Iowa TV station in 1980 of a younger woman in her early twenties being asked what she thought about Ambassador Bush, who was running for President. She said something like, "I hadn't heard him before, but I was impressed..." yada yada yada.

Now imagine today, asking a younger woman in her early twenties about Ambassador Huntsman and what she thought about him running for President. Chances are, she would look at you and have no idea what the hell you are talking about.

In other words, the newer age of technology and the new huge wealth of information age has given people so much data, that they will pick and choose their own interests. While this could be nice, it may also create a lack of knowledge in subjects that are important.

« Last Edit: July 03, 2014, 02:43:21 am by Reaganfan »Logged
Alfred F. Jones
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« Reply #43 on: July 03, 2014, 09:28:57 pm »
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I've heard John Fullbright's quite good.

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« Reply #44 on: July 03, 2014, 09:39:38 pm »
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This thread is a good example of why Einzgie/Mint types are not to be taken seriously. It is no coincidence they are our two self-proclaimed fascists.
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« Reply #45 on: July 03, 2014, 09:45:08 pm »
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brand a generation of millions as a single buzzword "millennial" so they can be analyzed like products and wonder why they're disillusioned
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« Reply #46 on: July 03, 2014, 09:55:04 pm »
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Another note, if we assume that the Strauss-Howe cyclical generations/turnings theory holds any water then we really shouldn't be surprised that our current popular cultural hasn't produced anything of real substance.

The analogous point in the previous cycle to where we are today would probably be the later 1930s, and I don't remember anything of especial cultural merit being produced during that time (at least not in the United States).  Popular culture then, like today, seemed rather kitsch and juvenile.  Of course, this would make sense, as then (much like today) artists and musicians were approached with a certain level of skepticism by the general public for not channelling the fullness of their efforts into propelling the society-wide institutional reorganization.

Just some more food for thought. 

Wizard of Oz
Snow White and the 7 Dwarves

The Hobbit
Brave New World
Grapes of Wrath
Of Mice and Men
As I Lay Dying

Batman and Superman comics

The Hobbit isn't American (which DT limits his statement to) and these movies and comics arguably qualify as "juvenile kitsch."  Not that I'm interested in defending the idea of "turnings."
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