Libya: Benghazi unrest, to Civil War, to a new government and Gaddafi's death.

[Silent Hunter]

I'm shocked with Mr. Sarkozy's hypocrysy.

I'm not shocked at any politican's hypocrisy.

[Antonio the Sixth]

It's good not to have to feel ashamed of my country's foreign policy, for once.

[opebo]

France recognizes Libya's rebel leadership in Benghazi as the official government of Libya, and will soon exchange ambassadors with them...

What the devil is wrong with them?  It looks like Gaddafi is going to pull it out.

I saw an impressive guy on BBC today, some ex-foreign minister of the UK, who said that he always thought Gaddafi would win, and doesn't think anyone will intervene in a major way.

[GMantis]

Not that I share Opebo's opinion of Gadhafi, but it's ironic that they are recognizing the opposition government when it seems that Gaddafi has gained the upper hand.

[opebo]

Not that I share Opebo's opinion of Gadhafi, but it's ironic that they are recognizing the opposition government when it seems that Gaddafi has gained the upper hand.

They'll be eating their beret when he marches into Bengazhi!

[Mr. Morden]

France recognizes Libya's rebel leadership in Benghazi as the official government of Libya, and will soon exchange ambassadors with them...

What the devil is wrong with them?  It looks like Gaddafi is going to pull it out.

I saw an impressive guy on BBC today, some ex-foreign minister of the UK, who said that he always thought Gaddafi would win, and doesn't think anyone will intervene in a major way.

Like I've said before, Gaddafi may "win", but I doubt he has enough loyal troops to invade and occupy the entirety of the east.  Gaddafi "winning" may mean a Somalia-like situation in much of the country, which would of course be great news for the "bearded ones" you're so fond of.

[The Mikado]

These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as freedom should not be highly rated. Qaddafi, with an army to enforce his tyranny, has declared that he has a right (not only to tax) but "to bind us in all cases whatsoever," and if being bound in that manner, is not slavery, then is there not such a thing as slavery upon earth. Even the expression is impious; for so unlimited a power can belong only to God.


Whether the freedom of the Libyan people was declared too soon, or delayed too long, I will not now enter into as an argument; my own simple opinion is, that had it been eight months earlier, it would have been much better. We did not make a proper use of last winter, neither could we, while we were in a dependent state. However, the fault, if it were one, was all our own; we have none to blame but ourselves. But no great deal is lost yet. All that Qaddafi has been doing for this month past, is rather a ravage than a conquest, which the spirit of Benghazi, a year ago, would have quickly repulsed, and which time and a little resolution will soon recover.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Thomas Paine FTW.

[Beet]

The International Community is faced with a choice - comprehensive military intervention short of boots on the ground (including air-to-air, air-to-ground, sea-to-sea, and sea-to-ground attacks, supplying the opposition with arms) vs. possibly accepting either a permanent state of division or a Gadhafi victory and retribution, and a Gadhafi regime control over Libya. I can't see how the latter is superior to the former. As I said last week, every single day that passes by with more bureaucracy and diplomacy and empty words just makes this job harder.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I've just heard that the rebels have retaken Ras Lanuf. True ?

[Lief 🗽]

The New Republic has called Obama's Libya policy a disgrace. Obviously they have a bad record with issues like this, but it's hard to disagree at this point.

[exopolitician]

The New Republic has called Obama's Libya policy a disgrace. Obviously they have a bad record with issues like this, but it's hard to disagree at this point.

I don't see what everyone expects Obama to do. Would military intervention in Libya really be worth it?

[Lief 🗽]

The New Republic has called Obama's Libya policy a disgrace. Obviously they have a bad record with issues like this, but it's hard to disagree at this point.

I don't see what everyone expects Obama to do. Would military intervention in Libya really be worth it?

As Beet said, it's hard to imagine that the consequences of limited military intervention in Libya would be anywhere near as bad as the consequences of Qaddafi defeating the rebellion.

[opebo]

I don't see what everyone expects Obama to do. Would military intervention in Libya really be worth it?

As Beet said, it's hard to imagine that the consequences of limited military intervention in Libya would be anywhere near as bad as the consequences of Qaddafi defeating the rebellion.

Are you serious? Once Gaddafi defeats the rebellion he'll knock things into shape and the oil will flow out.  If we intervene we'll have endless war, dead americans, destabiliation, bearded men, and blocked oil.  I just find it astounding that people are suddenly pro-intervention.

[exopolitician]

The New Republic has called Obama's Libya policy a disgrace. Obviously they have a bad record with issues like this, but it's hard to disagree at this point.

I don't see what everyone expects Obama to do. Would military intervention in Libya really be worth it?

As Beet said, it's hard to imagine that the consequences of limited military intervention in Libya would be anywhere near as bad as the consequences of Qaddafi defeating the rebellion.

I feel like either wouldn't produce any positive results. Billions of dollars (that we don't have, Republicans like to keep mentioning we are in a deficit) wasted on intervention where we'd probably be just as stuck there as we were in Iraq and Afghanistan which would lead to consequences Opebo already wrote about.

Sarkozy seems to be the first who might actually intervene militarily, so let France deal with it then.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Are you serious? Once Gaddafi defeats the rebellion he'll knock things into shape and the oil will flow out.  If we intervene we'll have endless war, dead americans, destabiliation, bearded men, and blocked oil.  I just find it astounding that people are suddenly pro-intervention.

A lot of this is true.

[Horus]

Military intervention would be the absolute worst option. Until we learn how to fight wars correctly in other countries why in the world would we start a third?!

We have a messed up country ourselves right now. What's happening in Libya is a tragedy, but intervention would just make things worse. Maybe not for them (at least in the short term), but definitely for us.

[Mr. Morden]

The Arab League asks the UN Security Council to impose a no-fly zone:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8378392/Libya-Arab-League-calls-for-United-Nations-no-fly-zone.html

[opebo]

The Arab League asks the UN Security Council to impose a no-fly zone:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8378392/Libya-Arab-League-calls-for-United-Nations-no-fly-zone.html

Silly asses league - I'm sure Gaddafi's forces would win even without the air-power factor (it isn't as if they're very good at utilizing it from what we've seen).

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I'm quite pessimistic here.

I sincerely doubt Europe or the US are going to take any, even most limited, action regarding Libya. You can't really for count France (regardless of Sarko's empty declarations) or Italy, since they believe Gaddafi is best choice for them, as they view him as the one, who can guarrante preventing Libyans from immigrating to Europe.

If Gaddafi can hold on, it's matter of year or two before he's again the best buddy.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     So they're saying the rebels have taken back Brega. Think it's true? It seems like the main source for this are the rebels (Al Jazeera is only claiming that "sources tell [them]"), who I wouldn't particularly trust, but at least they seem to have a better track record than the government, which is about as trustworthy as Hamilton.

[opebo]

     So they're saying the rebels have taken back Brega. Think it's true?

It really doesn't seem at all likely.

[GMantis]

     So they're saying the rebels have taken back Brega. Think it's true? It seems like the main source for this are the rebels (Al Jazeera is only claiming that "sources tell [them]"), who I wouldn't particularly trust, but at least they seem to have a better track record than the government, which is about as trustworthy as Hamilton.

It seems that their trustfulness of the rebels has been declining along with their fortunes. They lied about both Zawaya and Ras Lanuf and with independent confirmation about Brega available (see here: http://www.news24.com/Africa/News/Benghazi-braces-as-morale-sinks-20110313), I'm not inclined to believe them.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Russia's instated a travel ban on Qadaffi & his closest associates.

[exopolitician]

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What could be more risky?