Libya: Benghazi unrest, to Civil War, to a new government and Gaddafi's death.
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  Libya: Benghazi unrest, to Civil War, to a new government and Gaddafi's death.
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Author Topic: Libya: Benghazi unrest, to Civil War, to a new government and Gaddafi's death.  (Read 184121 times)
Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
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« Reply #75 on: February 21, 2011, 06:10:10 PM »

And according to Austrian army, the plane that should have taken Austrian citizens can't land, Libyan airspace would be shut.
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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #76 on: February 21, 2011, 06:16:48 PM »

Ah, and, Libyan TV:

http://wwitv.com/tv_channels/b5550.htm
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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #77 on: February 21, 2011, 06:25:41 PM »

It's like Tunisia and Egypt set off a whole storeroom of dynamite.

I think Algeria was actually the first of the North Africa states to have protests (mid December?), though they haven't been as successful.

No, was Tunisia, which started after the immolation of Mohamed Bouazizi on the 17th of December. One week of riots took place in Algeria in the beginning of January, after the protest was seriously taking Tunisia, to be fair riots became quite common in Algeria (about 10,000 in 2010 for example) but that week was quite violent and widespread. It's kinda one of the problem of Algeria which spontaneously uses to go toward riots rather than protest gathering, but that's an other topic.
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afleitch
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« Reply #78 on: February 21, 2011, 06:27:19 PM »
« Edited: February 21, 2011, 06:29:16 PM by afleitch »

Labour's Douglas Alexander woeful on Newsnight infact borderline disgusting in refusing to call on Ghadaffi to stop killing civilians, or condemning the sale of £200 million of crowd control equipment to Libya last year.
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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
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« Reply #79 on: February 21, 2011, 06:29:53 PM »

Labour's Douglas Alexander woeful on Newsnight Infact borderline disgusting in refusing to  to call for Gadaffi to stop killing civilians, or condemning the sale £200 million of crowd control equipment to Libya last year.

Congrats, beating France in Tunisia.
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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #80 on: February 21, 2011, 06:37:27 PM »

So bloody situation indeed will help to excite all passions, apparently a big preacher is calling for the army to kill Gaddafi.

And besides bombing people, army seems to have taken the lesson from Benghazi where protesters took control of arms, and bombs arms stocks.
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afleitch
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« Reply #81 on: February 21, 2011, 06:40:54 PM »

So bloody situation indeed will help to excite all passions, apparently a big preacher is calling for the army to kill Gaddafi.

That may be that chap that Ken Livingstone is buddies with, I forget his name.
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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #82 on: February 21, 2011, 06:47:25 PM »

And according to Austrian army, the plane that should have taken Austrian citizens can't land, Libyan airspace would be shut.

.k, Austrian army now says that it is not shut, and it was only Tripoli.
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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #83 on: February 21, 2011, 06:53:10 PM »

So bloody situation indeed will help to excite all passions, apparently a big preacher is calling for the army to kill Gaddafi.

That may be that chap that Ken Livingstone is buddies with, I forget his name.

I don't know if that matches, but his name is Cheikh Youssef Al-Qardawi (85 years), and is presented as a very influential Arab preacher, and he made his call on Al Jazeera.
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afleitch
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« Reply #84 on: February 21, 2011, 06:59:51 PM »

So bloody situation indeed will help to excite all passions, apparently a big preacher is calling for the army to kill Gaddafi.

That may be that chap that Ken Livingstone is buddies with, I forget his name.

I don't know if that matches, but his name is Cheikh Youssef Al-Qardawi (85 years), and is presented as a very influential Arab preacher, and he made his call on Al Jazeera.

That's him! Ken was supposed to host him in London when he was mayor but unfortunately for Ken it's not really acceptable to officially host a man who calls for gays to be killed and who praises Hitler's anti-semitism.
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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #85 on: February 21, 2011, 07:04:34 PM »

So bloody situation indeed will help to excite all passions, apparently a big preacher is calling for the army to kill Gaddafi.

That may be that chap that Ken Livingstone is buddies with, I forget his name.

I don't know if that matches, but his name is Cheikh Youssef Al-Qardawi (85 years), and is presented as a very influential Arab preacher, and he made his call on Al Jazeera.

That's him! Ken was supposed to host him in London when he was mayor but unfortunately for Ken it's not really acceptable to officially host a man who calls for gays to be killed and who praises Hitler's anti-semitism.

Ah well, then I hope he is as 'very influential' as Western media pretend the old guards of MB is.

Anyhow, interesting, in Benghazi, the flags waving are those of the monarchy chased by Gaddafi.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #86 on: February 21, 2011, 07:28:44 PM »

http://twitter.com/SeifIslamGaddfi
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #87 on: February 21, 2011, 07:29:31 PM »

Oh, yeah. He speaks...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12533069
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Insula Dei
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« Reply #88 on: February 21, 2011, 07:32:04 PM »

Not for those with a feeble stomach:

http://arabrevolution.posterous.com/libyan-hit-with-high-caliber-in-the-head-very

(Picture of a protestor shot trough the head by a government sniper)
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2952-0-0
exnaderite
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« Reply #89 on: February 21, 2011, 08:36:42 PM »

I've noticed an uncanny trend between this uprising and the Romanian one in 1989:

1989: Romania is the most closed of the Eastern Bloc and no one expects Ceausescu to be toppled quickly.
2011: Libya is the most closed of the Arab World and no one expects Gaddafi to be toppled quickly.

1989: small dispute over a church minister escalates into anti-regime protests.
2011: small dispute over a human rights activist's arrest escalates into anti-regime protests.

1989: church minister is quickly released, but protests escalate further.
2011: human rights activist is quickly released, but protests escalate further.

1989: riots begin in a remote corner of Romania, and initially Ceausescu uses brute force to try to crush them.
2011: riots begin in a remote corner of Libya, and initially Gaddafi uses brute force to try to crush them.

1989: when riots spread, Ceausescu uses mercenaries and accuses the west of fomenting the unrest.
2011: when riots spread, Gaddafi uses mercenaries and accuses the west of fomenting the unrest.

1989: extremely shocking reports of violence against civilians surface in the global media, while the army starts defecting.
2011: extremely shocking reports of violence against civilians surface in the global media, while the army starts defecting.

1989: Ceausescu stages mass pro-government rally on TV, which ends in the revolt spreading into the square.
2011: Gaddafi stages mass pro-government rally on TV, which ends in a humiliating speech at the back of a car holding an umbrella.

1989: rumours of Ceausescu fleeing to Iran or China dog him during the confusion.
2011: rumours of Gaddafi fleeing to Venezuela god him during the confusion.

1989: Ceaucescu flees Bucharest hoping to drum up support in his hometown.
2011: (some reports at this stage) Gaddafi flees Triploi hoping to drum up support in his hometown.

Anything else I missed?
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John Dibble
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« Reply #90 on: February 21, 2011, 08:58:59 PM »


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...seriously? You'd think that someone who's been in power for four decades could think of something that's a less obvious lie than that.
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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
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« Reply #91 on: February 21, 2011, 09:02:18 PM »

Interesting similarity of events.

Just a few bits about Gaddafi though, he ironically accused some Arab organizations in the country to be the source of all of this, and then he also went with an hostage taking from 'Al Qaeda', I heard nothing about the West, wouldn't be surprised he would have used it too though. Ah and, about the hometown, Sirte, during the day an NGO said it was fallen in the hands of protesters, though AFP called people there and they have been told it was calm, dunno then.

Last news:

AFP reports the call of UN Libyan diplomats for the army to oust Gaddafi 'to organize themselves and to walk on Tripoli to cut the head of the snake'.

He's clearly done now, the point being how long will it take, and what will it take. For the flee, not sure he would have a lot of choices of destination with what just happened.

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Lief 🗽
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« Reply #92 on: February 21, 2011, 09:04:58 PM »

Hopefully the Ceauşescu analogy is carried to its natural conclusion and they shoot the bastard.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #93 on: February 21, 2011, 09:44:25 PM »

He's clearly done now, the point being how long will it take, and what will it take. For the flee, not sure he would have a lot of choices of destination with what just happened.

I think he's burned too many bridges for the Saudis to accept him.  At this point, he's likely limited to Zimbabwe, and even then it likely wouldn't be something publicly acknowledged.
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Sam Spade
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« Reply #94 on: February 21, 2011, 10:20:28 PM »

The only guarantee, as I posted last night, is that it will be bloody and oil will shoot the moon.

The "bloody" is indisputable, but oil shooting the moon is really more dependent on the length of time the disturbances last than the intensity of the disturbances.  I could very easily see the situation, if not "calm," at least orderly enough to do business within a month.

Intensity is more important than length.
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Stranger in a strange land
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« Reply #95 on: February 21, 2011, 10:43:39 PM »
« Edited: February 21, 2011, 10:46:38 PM by Stranger in a strange land »

He's clearly done now, the point being how long will it take, and what will it take. For the flee, not sure he would have a lot of choices of destination with what just happened.

I think he's burned too many bridges for the Saudis to accept him.  At this point, he's likely limited to Zimbabwe, and even then it likely wouldn't be something publicly acknowledged.

North Korea, Iran, and Uzbekistan are also possibilities. Saudi Arabia is definitely off the table as Ghaddafi's intelligence service attempted to assassinate King (then Crown Prince) Abdullah as recently as 2003.

EDIT: "Muammar al-Gaddafi to no longer be leader of Libya before midnight ET 31 Dec 2011 " is now trading at 84% on Intrade.
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #96 on: February 21, 2011, 10:50:08 PM »

He's clearly done now, the point being how long will it take, and what will it take. For the flee, not sure he would have a lot of choices of destination with what just happened.

I think he's burned too many bridges for the Saudis to accept him.  At this point, he's likely limited to Zimbabwe, and even then it likely wouldn't be something publicly acknowledged.

North Korea, Iran, and Uzbekistan are also possibilities. Saudi Arabia is definitely off the table as Ghaddafi's intelligence service attempted to assassinate King (then Crown Prince) Abdullah as recently as 2003.

Does Ghaddafi necessarily want to leave?  Might he be nuts enough to stay and fight well past the point at which it's clear staying means death?

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Yeah, I think he's toast.
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SvenssonRS
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« Reply #97 on: February 21, 2011, 10:56:46 PM »

He's clearly done now, the point being how long will it take, and what will it take. For the flee, not sure he would have a lot of choices of destination with what just happened.

I think he's burned too many bridges for the Saudis to accept him.  At this point, he's likely limited to Zimbabwe, and even then it likely wouldn't be something publicly acknowledged.

North Korea, Iran, and Uzbekistan are also possibilities. Saudi Arabia is definitely off the table as Ghaddafi's intelligence service attempted to assassinate King (then Crown Prince) Abdullah as recently as 2003.

Does Ghaddafi necessarily want to leave?  Might he be nuts enough to stay and fight well past the point at which it's clear staying means death?

I certainly hope so. I mean, he got in fighting, so it's only fitting he goes out the same way. Then again, it may just be me being all for full circle.
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they don't love you like i love you
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« Reply #98 on: February 22, 2011, 12:37:06 AM »

Considering that Gadaffi is a rather nutty, egotistical true believer type while Mubarak and Ben Ali were just standard bureaucratic authoritarians him opting to stay and fight to the end does kind of make sense.
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phk
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« Reply #99 on: February 22, 2011, 05:06:11 AM »

Remind me why Libya is on the UN's Human Rights Council.
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