The Wisconsin Cheese Showdown

[Badger]

We call it "freedom." Maybe you've heard of it. It's what our Founders fought for.

The Founders believed in the 'freedom' to abuse collective bargaining to abuse the taxpayer?

Yes, and the collective bargaining has been so "abused" that they're going to essentially abolish it for public employees.

"Freedom".

BTW, your assessment of public sector employees and pensioners as "upper income" is idelogical and ignorant rather than pragmatic or remotely accurate. Grossly so actually.

[Badger]

So why should these people be fired for making too much, SS?  You make more than them and are not fired.

Mostly because there's no money to pay them.

Yes, God forbid we consider raising income taxes on the very highest 1% earners and estate of multi-millionaires to balance the budget rather than cutting the income of middle class teachers, police and state employees.

Please spare us trying to mask an ideologically based assault on collective bargaining as "fiscal responsibility".

[Badger]

Yes, and the collective bargaining has been so "abused" that they're going to essentially abolish it for public employees.

"Freedom".

BTW, your assessment of public sector employees and pensioners as "upper income" is idelogical and ignorant rather than pragmatic or remotely accurate. Grossly so actually.

Nothing new. Public sector workers are expressly excluded from the Wagner act, and other states have done so.

Wisconsin is just late to the party.


Edit: I might add, there are provisions in the law to allow unions to continue to plunder the taxpayer. They can get as much salary as they choose when it passes a referendum.

For some reason, leftists have a lot less faith in the people now......

Wisconsin has had in for about 50 years. This is a power grab pure and simple.

[Badger]

What are you even talking about? They agreed to the cuts. That's all that matters.

It should be only about the budget, not your political wet dreams.

Hardly. Public service unions have spent 50 years establishing themselves as an extension of the Democratic Party. If they want to do that, fine, but don't be shocked when the Republicans don't like you.

Union existence has never been about the budget in the first place.

Ah, so now Krazy even comes clean and admits that this has nothing to do with the budget in the first place. Classic.

Remember kids: Unfettered corporate and millionaire money flowing unchecked into the GOP coffers = good . A fraction of that amount flowing from middle class union members to the Democratic Party to counteract corporation and millionaire money = undermining the political system.

Businesses and government having all the chips and power in determining salary and benefits (or lack thereof) = prosperity. Allowing employees to organize to try ensuring they can have something approximating a middle class life rather than the profits flowing wholly to a handful of owners = economic stagnation.

[Badger]

This is a great day.  We need to abolish all public sector labor cartels and replace them with voluntary worker associations.    

Unions ARE "voluntary worker associations", genius. This bill basically guts them in the public sector as you purportedly support.

Go back to reading Ayn Rand and skip posting libertard slogans.

[Badger]

That money is coming from somewhere. Why could it not go into my paycheck instead of some politician's pockets?

Hmm? That's what I've been wondering.

The unions in many states can collect dues from any worker they want, even workers who do not want to be in a union. The unions then funnel that money into politician's pockets. Why could it not go into his paycheck instead of some politician's pockets?

They also enjoy immunity from antitrust. Any corporation other than Major League Baseball would love that kind of power.

You're failing to so the exact same argument applies to corporations. Why not let any money spent on contribution to political candidates be prorated to employees or shareholders and be "voluntary" for the workers or investors decide whether that money will be spent.

For all your bloviating about the evils of "union big money", Krazen, you're amazingly silent on the significantly larger amount of money spent by corporations and extremely wealthy individuals like the Kochs on the GOP. Are you fine with there being no counterbalance to that money.

Gasp! Wait! Are you saying that you oppose only union campaign spending because it goes to Democratic candidates you disagree with? And that means castrating them furthers your own political ideology? My goodness I'm shocked to find this motivation behind supporting this measure. SHOCKED I tell you!.

[Badger]

You're failing to so the exact same argument applies to corporations. Why not let any money spent on contribution to political candidates be prorated to employees or shareholders and be "voluntary" for the workers or investors decide whether that money will be spent.

For all your bloviating about the evils of "union big money", Krazen, you're amazingly silent on the significantly larger amount of money spent by corporations and extremely wealthy individuals like the Kochs on the GOP. Are you fine with there being no counterbalance to that money.

No, it doesn't at all.

If I am a shareholder of Microsoft and I don't like it, I can sell my securities and be done with Microsoft for good. If I am a union member and I don't like the union, I can quit the union, but they still have the right to confiscate as much money from my paycheck as they choose to.


The rest of this is the fiction that public sector union pigs counterbalance anything. They don't. All they do is feed at the trough and demand more and more taxes on the working class, which is why Jon Corzine utterly gutted property tax relief throughout NJ even as unemployment was skyrocketing. The NJEA doesn't really care about what Walmart or any company does, one way or another.


The unions had no problem ramming through their own agenda in your own state. But I'm glad to see more crocodile tears from crying Ohio Democrats; it makes me laugh.

And funny how this being "rammed through" in 1983 hasn't caused any notable public outcry outside GOP party hacks and Chamber of Commerce lobbyists. This matter wasn't brought up in Ohio's recent election campaign either. Nor was there any great public hue and cry to get rid of this awful system, it was merely a wish list of large corporations.

Note the opposite occurring now that repeal is looming. The public back the unions---even among non-unionized households.

[Badger]

And funny how this being "rammed through" in 1983 hasn't caused any notable public outcry outside GOP party hacks and Chamber of Commerce lobbyists. This matter wasn't brought up in Ohio's recent election campaign either. Nor was there any great public hue and cry to get rid of this awful system, it was merely a wish list of large corporations.

Note the opposite occurring now that repeal is looming. The public back the unions---even among non-unionized households.

Blatantly ignoring and lying about the history of Ohio Democrats is funny? I guess I missed the joke.

Part of Kasich's campaign was the repeal/modification of the AFL-CIO power grab of 1983. And of course, he won, and the Democrats got shellacked.

The protests are a mere bunch of loudmouths. The Republicans there had the silent majority on their side in November 2010, and they will in the next election.

If you want to believe that party line ramming is and should only be a 1 sided affair, you might as well just say so. It's not an invalid position.

Polls show the majority--both silent and otherwise--oppose Walker and the Republicans in Wisconsin. I haven't seen any polls from Ohio yet, but its telling that unlike 1983 a quarter of Ohio Senate Republicans even opposed and voted against SB5 here the other week.

If you know how monolithic and united the Ohio GOP was even compared to other states, the fact a quarter of them bailed (one was even replaced on a committee by the caucus to get the bill out of committee) should tell you where "the silent majority" stands here.

[Badger]

Got my layoff notice today.

[Badger]

It's ACORN's doing for sure!