Obama government will stop defending the DOMA

[tpfkaw]

...and you seem to lack basic manners.

Well, when I make a reference to what's possibly the most famous quote in the classical liberal tradition (to the point that it is referenced in glib 5th-grade textbook paragraphs and could well be used as the clue to "What is Classical Liberalism?" on Jeopardy), and you make a ridiculous, obviously and laughably untrue statement, I think I can call you out on it.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

...and you seem to lack basic manners.

Well, when I make a reference to what's possibly the most famous quote in the classical liberal tradition (to the point that it is referenced in glib 5th-grade textbook paragraphs and could well be used as the clue to "What is Classical Liberalism?" on Jeopardy), and you make a ridiculous, obviously and laughably untrue statement, I think I can call you out on it.

I made an error... I accept that, I got heated and frustrated... it happens.

You're more than welcome to call me out on a mistake, as I am toward your questionable interpretation of liberalism.

But as you usually do, you couldn't do it reasonably.

[RI]

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Paine isn’t the best guy to be quoting for your case either, what with his support for guaranteed minimum income, estate taxes, and welfare for seniors, among other things. (see Agrarian Justice)

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

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Paine isn’t the best guy to be quoting for your case either, what with his support for guaranteed minimum income, estate taxes, and welfare for seniors, among other things. (see Agrarian Justice)

Thank you!

I was having a brain melt as why I had a problem with Paine being used... that's why... God classical political theory was so long ago...

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Holy crap, he forgot to be a moderate hero on an issue.

[tpfkaw]

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Paine isn’t the best guy to be quoting for your case either, what with his support for guaranteed minimum income, estate taxes, and welfare for seniors, among other things. (see Agrarian Justice)

A-HA!  The person you just cited disagrees with you on like 3 issues!  Therefore you are all wrong!  (You may note that nowhere does my argument require that Paine or anyone else be a perfect anarcho-capitalist...)

[Bacon King]

You're an idiot:

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I'll call your out-of-context vague Paine quote, and raise you an extremely specific one:

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(ftr: adjusted for inflation, 15 pounds would be just under $2000; 10 pounds is right at $1300.)

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Paine isn’t the best guy to be quoting for your case either, what with his support for guaranteed minimum income, estate taxes, and welfare for seniors, among other things. (see Agrarian Justice)

A-HA!  The person you just cited disagrees with you on like 3 issues!  Therefore you are all wrong!  (You may note that nowhere does my argument require that Paine or anyone else be a perfect anarcho-capitalist...)

The point is, you're trying to argue that classic liberalism means something it doesn't at all.

[tpfkaw]

I'll call your out-of-context vague Paine quote, and raise you an extremely specific one:

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(ftr: adjusted for inflation, 15 pounds would be just under $2000; 10 pounds is right at $1300.)

One wonders how many of today's "liberals" (or today's "conservatives" for that matter) would consent to having the present welfare state replaced with Paine's.

[Napoleon]

Holy crap, he forgot to be a moderate hero on an issue.

How do you get more moderate hero than this? He's not legalizing gay marriage or repealing DOMA, he's simply not enforcing it through his administration.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

You and I seem to be using different definitions of the term "classical liberal" -

Indeed; he's using the term in the only way that's historically acceptable (to refer to liberalism in the earliest, most confident and most political stages of its existence), while you are not.

[Iosif]

What a car crash of a thread.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Holy crap, he forgot to be a moderate hero on an issue.

How do you get more moderate hero than this? He's not legalizing gay marriage or repealing DOMA, he's simply not enforcing it through his administration.

The bar is kind of low.

[courts]

Holy crap, he forgot to be a moderate hero on an issue.

How do you get more moderate hero than this? He's not legalizing gay marriage or repealing DOMA, he's simply not enforcing it through his administration.

The bar is kind of low.

I've heard the 'I'm just asking questions!' weasel words defense but I'm not sure I've ever heard someone say they're 'just thinking' about something. Is this a recent innovation?

[Landslide Lyndon]

I'm still waiting to hear why conservatives think that Bob Dole's health care plan=OMG!! Socialism!!!

[Franzl]

I'm still waiting to hear why conservatives think that Bob Dole's health care plan=OMG!! Socialism!!!

Maybe they're watching too much FOX news.

[Brittain33]

Holy crap, he forgot to be a moderate hero on an issue.

How do you get more moderate hero than this? He's not legalizing gay marriage or repealing DOMA, he's simply not enforcing it through his administration.

He doesn't have the power to repeal DOMA or legalize gay marriage--that falls to Congress, which was never going to do it under Pelosi, let alone Boehner. Congress is scared to death to be more progressive than the mainstream 60-year-old on gay rights.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Holy crap, he forgot to be a moderate hero on an issue.

How do you get more moderate hero than this? He's not legalizing gay marriage or repealing DOMA, he's simply not enforcing it through his administration.

He doesn't have the power to repeal DOMA or legalize gay marriage--that falls to Congress, which was never going to do it under Pelosi, let alone Boehner. Congress is scared to death to be more progressive than the mainstream 60-year-old on gay rights.

Exactly, he's essentially doing the only thing he can do, which is to stop the Justice Dept from acting on DOMA.

[Torie]

I'm still waiting to hear why conservatives think that Bob Dole's health care plan=OMG!! Socialism!!!

Tossing labels around tends to get a bit boring when you hit about age 35 or so. Be patient.

The problem with these little labels is that the English language is just too imprecise to make them very useful. Who knew?

[Sam Spade]

I don't really care about this, unless someone else cannot be appointed to defend the law an appeal lower court decisions in the government's position.  I know it is done in the Supreme Court, but am unsure about lower courts.

That's really the only issue that matters - as that would be a huge executive power grab if this could not be done.

As for the growing politicization of the Justice dept., that continues to be a concern, but I doubt anything will stop it in the future, nor is it really avoidable.  We just need to be wary of the consequences.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

I wonder if certain liberals here still think Obama is not liberal enough?

Lol. Obama is barely liberal. I don't understand how you could realistically define him as anything other than a charismatic centrist.

If National Journal's most liberal Senator in 2007 is not a liberal, then who is a liberal, exactly?

Obviously using the GOP definition of the liberal, which is anything to left of them...

Nice try.  National Journal is not a partisan publication.

C'mon now, cinyc,  you know all Presidents gravitate to the middle.......he could have been the left of Genghis Khan in 2007 but when you sit at the big desk you can't survive unless you move to the center.

He's not nearly as liberal as President as people feared......which is bad news for the "professional left" and good news for the pubs and moderates.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

As for the growing politicization of the Justice dept., that continues to be a concern, but I doubt anything will stop it in the future, nor is it really avoidable.  We just need to be wary of the consequences.

Sam, has there been an administration's justice department in your memory that wasn't politicized?  I can't think of one

[Brittain33]

That's really the only issue that matters - as that would be a huge executive power grab if this could not be done.

Congress can choose to appoint someone. I wonder if the House GOP may actually decide not to do so, because this is the one part of DOMA which is clearly and unequivocally indefensible, and Boehner isn't looking to stir up the youngs before 2012 with a culture war where they have already banked all the votes they can get out of the issue.

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Hard to see this as "growing politicization" of the Justice Dept. relative to the Bush years with this as an example.

[Bacon King]

I'm still waiting to hear why conservatives think that Bob Dole's health care plan=OMG!! Socialism!!!

Because it was very similar in a lot of ways to the PPACA, and the latter was a Democratic bill opposed by the GOP, and thus the '93 Dole-Chafee bill has been retroactively deemed socialism by association (even though half of the GOP Senate caucus at the time cosponsored it, lol).

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

That's really the only issue that matters - as that would be a huge executive power grab if this could not be done.

Congress can choose to appoint someone. I wonder if the House GOP may actually decide not to do so, because this is the one part of DOMA which is clearly and unequivocally indefensible, and Boehner isn't looking to stir up the youngs before 2012 with a culture war where they have already banked all the votes they can get out of the issue.

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Hard to see this as "growing politicization" of the Justice Dept. relative to the Bush years with this as an example.

Clinton's was no better, b33......they're all politicized.

[Brittain33]

That's really the only issue that matters - as that would be a huge executive power grab if this could not be done.

Congress can choose to appoint someone. I wonder if the House GOP may actually decide not to do so, because this is the one part of DOMA which is clearly and unequivocally indefensible, and Boehner isn't looking to stir up the youngs before 2012 with a culture war where they have already banked all the votes they can get out of the issue.

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Hard to see this as "growing politicization" of the Justice Dept. relative to the Bush years with this as an example.

Clinton's was no better, b33......they're all politicized.

I didn't pay much attention to this issue before Bush's second term and not at all when Clinton was President... this is something you know more about than I do.