Should we have border security?

[CARLHAYDEN]

Recently I posted a government analysis in which it was acknowledged that the southern land border was not secured.  One of the posters on that thread suggested something to the effect that 'everyone knows that.'

So, the next question is, should we have border security.  In this context, two specific proposals, with survey results on public attitude.

So, do you agree with the public? 

Would you favor or oppose each of the following proposals: (RANDOM ORDER)

                                   Favor Oppose No opinion

Building a 700 mile long fence on the border with Mexico

May 21-23, 2010         54%     45%        1%
May 4-6, 2007             45%     53%        2%

Putting more Border Patrol and federal law
enforcement agents on the U.S. border with Mexico

May 21-23, 2010         88%     12%        1%
October 20-22, 2006   74%     25%        1%

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/05/26/cnn-poll-support-for-border-crackdown-grows/

[Lief 🗽]

Obviously we need some degree of border security, but if the only options are nothing and building another Iron Curtain, I'll go with nothing.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Obviously we need some degree of border security, but if the only options are nothing and building another Iron Curtain, I'll go with nothing.

Especially on the Canadian side where I totally favor an open border.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Nope. There should be no customs, nothing. 100% open borders.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

We'd certainly have more success in dealing with illegal immigration if we tackled the internal issues that cause people to want to come here illegally.  We certainly could increase and should increase the amount of legal immigration we have.

[Franzl]

An open border with Canada would be alright.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Nope. There should be no customs, nothing. 100% open borders.

Tell that to the families whose loved ones were murdered by illegals, who would of never been allowed to enter the US if they came through a airport/green card/legal immigration process. A Open Border with Canada is a great idea, but it might not work out well.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

You could also say "Tell that to all the people in Mexico who's families were murdered with American-sold and smuggled arms." but we all know Libertarians wouldn't care about that. Actually I don't really care either because Mexico's gun control laws are dumb anyway. And I really see no reason to not have an open border with Canada.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

You could also say "Tell that to all the people in Mexico who's families were murdered with American-sold and smuggled arms." but we all know Libertarians wouldn't care about that. Actually I don't really care either because Mexico's gun control laws are dumb anyway. And I really see no reason to not have an open border with Canada.

On Mexico-Your right, I dont care. My country first, and then when we can help them, we will.

On Canada-There wont be alot of illegals (obivously), but drugs, and even terrorist could come in. We certainly can lax the border with Canada though.

[Franzl]

On Mexico-Your right, I dont care.

Well. Aren't you a sick excuse for a human being.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

You could also say "Tell that to all the people in Mexico who's families were murdered with American-sold and smuggled arms." but we all know Libertarians wouldn't care about that. Actually I don't really care either because Mexico's gun control laws are dumb anyway. And I really see no reason to not have an open border with Canada.

On Mexico-Your right, I dont care. My country first, and then when we can help them, we will.

Uh, that has nothing to do with what I'm saying. FYI the reverse is true as well, imagine all the kids who'd bring in cheap weed from Mexico. That is not a bad thing of course.

On Canada-There wont be alot of illegals (obivously), but drugs, and even terrorist could come in. We certainly can lax the border with Canada though.

1-Uh, you're a Libertarian and you care about drug smuggling?
2-Why would people smuggle drugs from Canada anyway? Sounds like it'd more likely to be the other way around.
3-Oh yes, we have a huge threat from Canadian terrorists. Canada is country full of and known for terrorists after all.

[RI]

Where's the poll?

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

1-Uh, you're a Libertarian and you care about drug smuggling?
2-Why would people smuggle drugs from Canada anyway? Sounds like it'd more likely to be the other way around.
3-Oh yes, we have a huge threat from Canadian terrorists. Canada is country full of and known for terrorists after all.

1. Not all Libertarians are the sam-Drugs are a state right.
2. Pills, mainly, not Cocaine, etc.
3. Terrorist simply go to Canada, from wherever, and come through. It will be a staging point.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

1-Uh, you're a Libertarian and you care about drug smuggling?
2-Why would people smuggle drugs from Canada anyway? Sounds like it'd more likely to be the other way around.
3-Oh yes, we have a huge threat from Canadian terrorists. Canada is country full of and known for terrorists after all.

1. Not all Libertarians are the sam-Drugs are a state right.
2. Pills, mainly, not Cocaine, etc.
3. Terrorist simply go to Canada, from wherever, and come through. It will be a staging point.

1-Fake Libertarian then.
2-Those are just as easy to get in the US.
3-Why not just come to the US directly? Canada is actually tougher at not letting people in, they barred George Galloway from entering the country for example. If I were a terrorist trying to get to the US from Saudi Arabia or Egypt or wherever I'd just go straight to the US.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

2-Why would people smuggle drugs from Canada anyway? Sounds like it'd more likely to be the other way around.

Enforcement of marijuana laws are somewhat looser than in this country.  Still, Canadian weed is believed to make up only around 2 to 5% of the US supply.  However, if ever did get a non-porous border with Mexico, I'd expect that to rapidly change.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

2-Why would people smuggle drugs from Canada anyway? Sounds like it'd more likely to be the other way around.

Enforcement of marijuana laws are somewhat looser than in this country.

Uh, non-enforcement is effectively official policy in several cities like Seattle, Boulder, Denver, Ann Arbor and probably the majority of California. And even in places where it's not it's frequently quite lax as well, I can pull up city attorney records that show the amount of people arrested for marijuana in Minneapolis annually is usually in the single digits. And the few that are are guilty of some other crime too.

Still, Canadian weed is believed to make up only around 2 to 5% of the US supply.  However, if ever did get a non-porous border with Mexico, I'd expect that to rapidly change.

We need more Canadian weed as the people producing it are far less likely to be murderers.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Still, Canadian weed is believed to make up only around 2 to 5% of the US supply.  However, if ever did get a non-porous border with Mexico, I'd expect that to rapidly change.

We need more Canadian weed as the people producing it are far less likely to be murderers.

Why not simply allow domestic production?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Well that'd be best. But that'd also make it a non-issue on the border. And getting it allowed somewhere is the tricky thing, though I guess it's only a few years before California will, 4% is a small enough gap for enough olds to die off in a few years.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Ha, this reminds me of CARLHAYDEN so much: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-GGSRmJ0NY

[Hash]

Canadian customs are unbelievably incompetent, so an open border wouldn't be a good thing.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

The absolutely tragic story of the old bass player of Lemuria is the main reason I support an open border with Canada.

[Boris]

Canadian customs are unbelievably incompetent, so an open border wouldn't be a good thing.

They don't even currently search you while entering (as long as you act cool, present a passport, and maybe a verifiable itinerary such as a hotel reservation), so I don't really see what difference it would make. The main benefit would be for Americans returning from Canada, not having to deal with idiotic and dickish customs agents. Say what you will about opebo, but he is 100% correct on his characterization of US customs officials.

And as Ernest mentioned, Canadian weed only accounts for like 5% of the US supply, and most "BC Bud" is probably located around the Seattle metro area. This leads to highly inflated marijuana prices throughout the Midwest USA (sometimes 2x expensive than EU levels and 1.5x more expensive than Southern Ontario). Ideally open borders would facilitate a drop in prices to like $45 per 3.5 grams in cities like Chicago, Minneapolis, Milwaukee, and various Big Ten college towns.

[Franzl]

Both U.S. and Canadian passport control and customs are pretty unpleasent, in my experience.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Well, it seems pretty clear from the comments to date that most of the lefties here oppose border security.

Interestingly while there has been some comment on aliens illegally entering the country, and substabntial comment on illegal drugs entering the country, there has been absolutely no comment on terrorists illegally entering the country.

Note: I posted the data from ORC/CNN poll to illustrate just how far out of touch with the general public this forum has become.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Well, it seems pretty clear from the comments to date that most of the lefties here oppose border security.

Ernest, Franzl and I aren't lefties though.