probably the dumbest anti-Christian cartoon I've ever seen
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  probably the dumbest anti-Christian cartoon I've ever seen
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Author Topic: probably the dumbest anti-Christian cartoon I've ever seen  (Read 4548 times)
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jmfcst
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« on: March 01, 2011, 04:03:55 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztDgyOKej1k

wow, what a target rich environment.  this one makes Derek look really smart.  Not only are they distorting the meaning of John 14:6, but they're attempting to make the Christian in the cartoon out to be the one who can't read or reason. 

And if the atheist argument is that John 14:6 doesn't mean that only Christians get into heaven, but rather means Jesus is the one deciding who gets into heaven, then why wouldn't the atheist want to believe in Jesus Christ?
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2011, 08:16:34 PM »

I agree, it is fairly dumb, largely because of the strawman it chooses to use.

And if the atheist argument is that John 14:6 doesn't mean that only Christians get into heaven, but rather means Jesus is the one deciding who gets into heaven, then why wouldn't the atheist want to believe in Jesus Christ?

Minor quibble before getting to answering your question, which is already covered in the cartoon.  The other character is only identified as a non-Christian, not an atheist.

That character also indicates he is not interested in the "angry and exclusionary god" that he believes most Christians believe in.  However, he would be interested in the heaven for which Jesus acts as the gatekeeper if Jesus is one who will judge based on the deeds of a person rather than the faith of a person.
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Joe Biden 2020
BushOklahoma
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« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2011, 09:41:37 PM »

I agree, it is fairly dumb, largely because of the strawman it chooses to use.

And if the atheist argument is that John 14:6 doesn't mean that only Christians get into heaven, but rather means Jesus is the one deciding who gets into heaven, then why wouldn't the atheist want to believe in Jesus Christ?

Minor quibble before getting to answering your question, which is already covered in the cartoon.  The other character is only identified as a non-Christian, not an atheist.

That character also indicates he is not interested in the "angry and exclusionary god" that he believes most Christians believe in.  However, he would be interested in the heaven for which Jesus acts as the gatekeeper if Jesus is one who will judge based on the deeds of a person rather than the faith of a person.

If Jesus were to judge based on the deeds of a person, absolutely no one would make it into heaven.  Our best is as filthy rags compared to the perfection of Jesus Christ.  Romans 3:23 says "For ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God".

I am so grateful He decides to look past my deeds and look at my faith instead.  Man looks on the outward appearance, but God looks on the heart.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2011, 10:21:07 PM »

You're coming at this from the viewpoint of someone who already believes, BushOK, rather than the viewpoint of someone who does not such as the person who made that cartoon.

Indeed, for such a person quoting Romans 3:23 at them is probably reason enough to not be a Christian.  It posits a god who sets a standard of perfection that is impossible for any human to meet, and then threatens everlasting punishment in the afterlife except to those who are willing to pay a bribe in the form of worship to escape his rigged game.  That's not what Christianity really is about, at least in my view, but if it were, I'd reject it too.
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John Dibble
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« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2011, 10:28:43 PM »

I am so grateful He decides to look past my deeds and look at my faith instead.

Why exactly do you think of faith as a virtue? After all, suicide bombers have faith in droves, but would you claim they are good people because of their faith that is so great that they are willing to lay down their very lives for it?
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BushOklahoma
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« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2011, 10:36:39 PM »

You're coming at this from the viewpoint of someone who already believes, BushOK, rather than the viewpoint of someone who does not such as the person who made that cartoon.

Indeed, for such a person quoting Romans 3:23 at them is probably reason enough to not be a Christian.  It posits a god who sets a standard of perfection that is impossible for any human to meet, and then threatens everlasting punishment in the afterlife except to those who are willing to pay a bribe in the form of worship to escape his rigged game.  That's not what Christianity really is about, at least in my view, but if it were, I'd reject it too.

That would be true if the story stopped there, but the truth is the story does NOT stop there.  Just 3 chapters later in Romans 6:23 it says "For the wages of sin is death, BUT the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."  God knows we can never make heaven on our own efforts, so he provided us a way to get there without having to rely on our deeds.  He provided His Son as a perfect sacrifice to pay for our sins.

Dibble, the faith of suicide bombers is not real faith or is faith in the wrong entity or person.  The only way to heaven is through belief in Jesus Christ.  No one can get there through any other means.  Works cannot save you and neither can faith in anything other than Jesus Christ.
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Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook
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« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2011, 10:55:27 PM »

For a second I thought this was about the Family Guy episode where Meg becomes a Christian.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2011, 11:04:38 PM »

Yet again, you are presenting Christianity in the form of people having to pay off with worship a vengeful god who is seemingly incapable of the charity he demands humans exhibit.  A person such as the one who made the stupid cartoon that jmfcst posted a link to is not going to be interested in a god who holds humans to a standard that he himself does not meet.
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« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2011, 12:25:58 AM »

The dumb part is the non-Christian sounds suspiciously like a Christian with his "love my neighbors in the way Christ commanded of all those who believe in him."  sure enough  the guy who wrote this is an nonorthodox Christian. 
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« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2011, 12:49:45 AM »

This one is far dumber: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdABgfflswo
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Boris
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« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2011, 01:14:35 AM »


haha, they should compare religious education in Saudi Arabia to religious education in Sweden. The Church of Sweden's website "welcome(s) all; believers, seekers, and doubters." I'm sure the Saudis teach their children to extend the same courtesy.
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BRTD
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« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2011, 02:17:41 AM »

What's dumb is the general premise is correct basically: "Muslims have killed more people than Christians so you should convert to Christianity" is a pretty bad logical fallacy, though it's also one I've never heard anyone really use meaning that it itself is a strawman. But it doesn't even attack this strawman really, it just has the Christian use No True Scotsman over and over and glosses over far more valid points such as that the Crusades were quite a few centuries ago and of basically no relevance to modern day society. The whole thing is basically little more than logical fallacies being spewed by both sides.
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John Dibble
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« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2011, 07:18:48 AM »

Dibble, the faith of suicide bombers is not real faith

Not real? They are so certain that they're willing to die for it. That's pretty much the ultimate sacrifice you can make, or at least damn close - there's no turning back from it. If that isn't a demonstration of real faith I don't know how you could show anyone has real faith.

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Oddly enough they'd say the same about your faith.

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And why should I or anyone else believe that this claim is true? There are other, contradictory claims that have just as little evidence as this one does, so why should I put more value on this claim than on those claims?
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Gustaf
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« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2011, 07:26:35 AM »


haha, they should compare religious education in Saudi Arabia to religious education in Sweden. The Church of Sweden's website "welcome(s) all; believers, seekers, and doubters." I'm sure the Saudis teach their children to extend the same courtesy.

The Swedish church is pretty lame that way. They're constantly apologizing for their religion.

As our former archbishop said, when asked whether God exists: "that depends on what you mean by "exist""

I'm all for tolerance, but really...
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2011, 09:00:07 AM »

Haha, yeah. The Swedish church is what conservative Anglicans imagine the CofE in its current form to be.
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The Mikado
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« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2011, 03:41:20 PM »


Indeed.  I don't think anyone has ever made that argument (or, rather, people constantly make arguments whether more people died under the cross or star & crescent, but don't take it to this level).
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Free Palestine
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« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2011, 01:48:41 AM »

Anything made with that ridiculous xtranormal site tends to be dumb.
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