MA: The Teaching Salary Act (Debating)

[California8429]

I for one don't like Section 4.  That'll be one thing I think definitely needs amending.

I was just considering how to judge teachers fairly on preformance for say a language or music teacher. Our new Colorado bill ties all teachers in with our overall state testing scores which makes no sense, especially for teachers that have nothing to do with the core subjects, or even judged in english when they teach geometry and statistics.

[California8429]

We shouldn't be disincentivising teachers taking on jobs with more academically challenged students.

I completely agree. Until the section on basing salary on test scores is removed, I strongly urge the Assembly to vote down this legislation.

As previously posted, this legislation is not moving to some quick vote

[California8429]

The average overall is 40-43k with the higher end being high school.

http://teacherportal.com/teacher-salaries-by-state

As you can see my starting salary is much higher than the average, certainly over 30k! (unless you're in North Dakota where that's decent) in order to encourage people to go into teaching.

Also if you guys have a better idea to get rid of just plan bad teachers, it's fine by me, but I don't want anyone holding our students back because they are just plain bad, whether they can't teach well, or don't know the curriculum. Just like any real world company or organization, there had people who are bad at their job as teachers, and we need to replace them if they strain the system.

[California8429]

I'm a little worried that teachers would have no incentive to teach underperforming students. On this scale, a teacher would make less if their students' test scores are lower, but there is only so much he/she can control. It's really difficult to objectively grade teacher performance, and it opens up the system to unnecessary controversy or bureaucracy, depending on the path we choose to take.

That's the dilemma with this. How do we find ways to get rid of bad teachers (and make sure they're actually bad) while making sure we still have good teachers in bad districts.

Even if we don't tie regional testing to teacher pay, I still think we should use it in order to compare districts, see which ones struggle in what areas so we can work on solutions to getting their scores up in certain (maybe even all) areas.

[California8429]

Replacing bad teachers with good teachers is something that we need to enable schools to do. That is not quite the same as basing teacher pay on some measure of performance. 

It's still a step by awarding the best teachers that really produce amazing results and are committed to the kids. Shouldn't they get the highest pay?

[California8429]

Replacing bad teachers with good teachers is something that we need to enable schools to do. That is not quite the same as basing teacher pay on some measure of performance. 

It's still a step by awarding the best teachers that really produce amazing results and are committed to the kids. Shouldn't they get the highest pay?

We can aim for that, we just need to recognize there is no surefire way to make sure we know who those teachers are, and any decent system for estimating this is going to require a lot of time and resources with administration at the local level by people who are familiar with each school.

I agree, but we have to try. I was thinking an alternative could be some evaluation of the teacher where the administration, students, and teachers are interviewed on a specific teacher, they can also look at regional test results, look at the group of kids they had, and bring that all in to perspective. The only downside is a huge chance for corruption  and/or the ability for just a few people to control a teacher's salary or maybe even their job (if of course what the evaluation says doesn't seem right)

[California8429]

I agree with shua and Inks in that it is in the local government's jurisdiction to determine the quality of the teachers.

On another note, I am in favor of instituting a region-wide system implementing "combat pay," where teachers in high-risk, historically low-result neighborhoods are paid more in an attempt to correct the system.

Great idea

[California8429]

I agree with shua and Inks in that it is in the local government's jurisdiction to determine the quality of the teachers.

On another note, I am in favor of instituting a region-wide system implementing "combat pay," where teachers in high-risk, historically low-result neighborhoods are paid more in an attempt to correct the system.

Great idea

Mega-great! Maybe it ould involve paying off regional student loans the teachers accumulated while getting their own education (assuming the Mideast issues such loans).

Even better, encouraing the younger energetic teachers to push themselves in the urban schools

[California8429]

Also, it might encourage teachers to lower standards on certain assignments. I'm not saying it will happen, but it may be a possibility.

I don't think it is the regional government's place to legislate specific assignments or the expectations of specific teachers.

^

I don't see how lowering standards on an assignment would help the kids score higher on a regional test either.

[California8429]

I agree with shua and Inks in that it is in the local government's jurisdiction to determine the quality of the teachers.

On another note, I am in favor of instituting a region-wide system implementing "combat pay," where teachers in high-risk, historically low-result neighborhoods are paid more in an attempt to correct the system.

Great idea

Mega-great! Maybe it ould involve paying off regional student loans the teachers accumulated while getting their own education (assuming the Mideast issues such loans).

Even better, encouraing the younger energetic teachers to push themselves in the urban schools

You are assumiong they don't push themselves already?

Yes, for instance, NYC. They have one of the crappiest system ever. No, not all are bad. But there's a whole lot of them that are terrible and the city is unable to fire, including teachers who are deemed "unfit" to teach and are just sent to a room and sit there for years due to tenure laws. Do you think are urban teachers really are the cream of the crop as a whole?

[California8429]

I agree with shua and Inks in that it is in the local government's jurisdiction to determine the quality of the teachers.

On another note, I am in favor of instituting a region-wide system implementing "combat pay," where teachers in high-risk, historically low-result neighborhoods are paid more in an attempt to correct the system.

Great idea

Mega-great! Maybe it ould involve paying off regional student loans the teachers accumulated while getting their own education (assuming the Mideast issues such loans).

Even better, encouraing the younger energetic teachers to push themselves in the urban schools

You are assumiong they don't push themselves already?

Yes, for instance, NYC. They have one of the crappiest system ever. No, not all are bad. But there's a whole lot of them that are terrible and the city is unable to fire, including teachers who are deemed "unfit" to teach and are just sent to a room and sit there for years due to tenure laws. Do you think are urban teachers really are the cream of the crop as a whole?

Someone's been reading their latedt issue of National Review it seems.

Where, I ask with trepadation, do you get such "information"?

Newt Gingrich's book
http://www.uft.org/news/bloomberg-calls-5000-teacher-layoffs-city-budget
Newwest 5,000 laid off (which goes against the idea laid out here to promote new teachers to join urban cities)
And the graduation rate for NYC is 60% ish, higher than it has been at least, but it's still impossible to say that's sucessfull, considering less are truly ready for college and many are just shoved through the system when they should be held back.