SENATE BILL: No Contracts for Illegals Act (Law'd)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I was expecting you guys to give me feed back on the appropriate lengths and other answers to the fill in the blanks I posted last night. I figure that the more people opine the more likely it will be right in the end. SO PLEASE DO SO!!!!!

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I was expecting you guys to give me feed back on the appropriate lengths and other answers to the fill in the blanks I posted last night. I figure that the more people opine the more likely it will be right in the end. SO PLEASE DO SO!!!!!

I'm not sure how to estimate that without any idea of what the verification mechanism would involve. Are we talking here about a retroactive system or only applying to new hires?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I was expecting you guys to give me feed back on the appropriate lengths and other answers to the fill in the blanks I posted last night. I figure that the more people opine the more likely it will be right in the end. SO PLEASE DO SO!!!!!

I'm not sure how to estimate that without any idea of what the verification mechanism would involve. Are we talking here about a retroactive system or only applying to new hires?

Indeed, hence why I wanted to facilitate the discussion in general to maybe get some anwers on those more encompassing problems without directly saying so (as that would scare people away from discussion based on the complexity alone).

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Do I need to resort to the bayonet to get you people here?


Perhaps this will set up a process to move this bill in a responsible direction by answering questions.

1. What exactly are we requiring be done by whom and for what purpose? This is pretty clear.
2. How is that to be done?
3. Who is given special treatment and why?

We need to focus on 2. We have had discussion in this thread discussion on whether to have a one sized fits all system of punishments and penalities or a case by case basis. What hasn't been discussed is how are companies to know whether or not someone is illegal. If you are going to mandate they do something would it not be wise to provide a system by which to ensure there employees are legit? Something like E-verify, that would provide a secure internet based system to verify status? If so, then what would the verification include and does the system already exist in Atlasia or does it need to be created by us?

Is it a singular database or does the system check various sources from ICE, to INS, The Dept of Homeland Security, and to a federal list of "stolen identities" looking for red flags?

Told you this was complex.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I think you would need a database of citizens, one of permanent residents/'green card' holders, and one of work visa holders.

[HappyWarrior]

I'm horrible with complex amendments, always been my weakness here in the Senate :-p

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

A database of US citizens offends my miniscule Libertarian and constitutionalist sentiments. I think if you can strengthen both birth certificates and Social Security Cards/number while simultanouesly pursuing the fraudulent document industry, you don't need to create a database of citizens or have these ID card Euro-facist shannigans. (Maybe this will provoke something slightly above boredom nothingness. I am a professional tweaker and provoker of reactions.)

Now if you want to create such a database for legal non-citizens whether they be permenent residents or temporary guest workers, I think that is permissable as a reasonable secrurity measure and since of course temporary guest workers are just that and the expectation is that once "temporary" comes into real meaning the "guests" will depart from our humble castle like the Aunts and Uncles who come to visit as humble guests, they eventually depart. Tracking them in a databases is thus a reasonable way to ensure that they are not over staying their welcome. The permenent residents are an interesting question as far as to be databased or not to be databased.

You see we have been sold this lie that we need to take these ridiculous measures to solve this problem. Actually it is far easier and cheaper then we are wanted to beleive. So much so, that the only way to stop progress is to promote this fallacy. All you need is cut through the bureaucracy and red tape, get agencies and departments communicating with one another and then employ common sense measures that are relatively cheap. Why shouldn't the gov't take a tough hand on fraudsters whether it be in entitlements or documents? Why not let the no match lists be used by ICE and other people to crackdown on ID theft? Why is E-verify so damn scary? If you worry about racial profiling then attach stiff penalties and require it be used on all workers? There is no common sense in this debate, prescisely because it is too easy to do (It isn't easy to get officials to do it though).   

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I'm horrible with complex amendments, always been my weakness here in the Senate :-p

Now you know how the real Senators do it. They have staff and we don't.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I'm horrible with complex amendments, always been my weakness here in the Senate :-p

Now you know how the real Senators do it. They have staff and we don't.

We... don't?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

A database of US citizens offends my miniscule Libertarian and constitutionalist sentiments. I think if you can strengthen both birth certificates and Social Security Cards/number while simultanouesly pursuing the fraudulent document industry, you don't need to create a database of citizens or have these ID card Euro-facist shannigans. (Maybe this will provoke something slightly above boredom nothingness. I am a professional tweaker and provoker of reactions.)

Now if you want to create such a database for legal non-citizens whether they be permenent residents or temporary guest workers, I think that is permissable as a reasonable secrurity measure and since of course temporary guest workers are just that and the expectation is that once "temporary" comes into real meaning the "guests" will depart from our humble castle like the Aunts and Uncles who come to visit as humble guests, they eventually depart. Tracking them in a databases is thus a reasonable way to ensure that they are not over staying their welcome. The permenent residents are an interesting question as far as to be databased or not to be databased.

You see we have been sold this lie that we need to take these ridiculous measures to solve this problem. Actually it is far easier and cheaper then we are wanted to beleive. So much so, that the only way to stop progress is to promote this fallacy. All you need is cut through the bureaucracy and red tape, get agencies and departments communicating with one another and then employ common sense measures that are relatively cheap. Why shouldn't the gov't take a tough hand on fraudsters whether it be in entitlements or documents? Why not let the no match lists be used by ICE and other people to crackdown on ID theft? Why is E-verify so damn scary? If you worry about racial profiling then attach stiff penalties and require it be used on all workers? There is no common sense in this debate, prescisely because it is too easy to do (It isn't easy to get officials to do it though).   

are you saying e-verify doesn't require ridiculous databases?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

A database of US citizens offends my miniscule Libertarian and constitutionalist sentiments. I think if you can strengthen both birth certificates and Social Security Cards/number while simultanouesly pursuing the fraudulent document industry, you don't need to create a database of citizens or have these ID card Euro-facist shannigans. (Maybe this will provoke something slightly above boredom nothingness. I am a professional tweaker and provoker of reactions.)

Now if you want to create such a database for legal non-citizens whether they be permenent residents or temporary guest workers, I think that is permissable as a reasonable secrurity measure and since of course temporary guest workers are just that and the expectation is that once "temporary" comes into real meaning the "guests" will depart from our humble castle like the Aunts and Uncles who come to visit as humble guests, they eventually depart. Tracking them in a databases is thus a reasonable way to ensure that they are not over staying their welcome. The permenent residents are an interesting question as far as to be databased or not to be databased.

You see we have been sold this lie that we need to take these ridiculous measures to solve this problem. Actually it is far easier and cheaper then we are wanted to beleive. So much so, that the only way to stop progress is to promote this fallacy. All you need is cut through the bureaucracy and red tape, get agencies and departments communicating with one another and then employ common sense measures that are relatively cheap. Why shouldn't the gov't take a tough hand on fraudsters whether it be in entitlements or documents? Why not let the no match lists be used by ICE and other people to crackdown on ID theft? Why is E-verify so damn scary? If you worry about racial profiling then attach stiff penalties and require it be used on all workers? There is no common sense in this debate, prescisely because it is too easy to do (It isn't easy to get officials to do it though).   

are you saying e-verify doesn't require ridiculous databases?

No, I don't recall saying that, but it was a long post and I had to combine and condense some things.

E-verify relies on previously existing databases though, if I am not mistaken.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Not an amendment yet. How strong is this language? What are you guy's opinions about its placement? I was thinking at the end since its just a CYA measure for all intents and purposes, since it merely states the obvious result of such violations.

[HappyWarrior]

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Not an amendment yet. How strong is this language? What are you guy's opinions about its placement? I was thinking at the end since its just a CYA measure for all intents and purposes, since it merely states the obvious result of such violations.

Tha sounds good to me.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I might be able to solve our problem with verification by tomorrow. I had an idea yesterday but I lost it in a deluge of video games, chocolate, pizza and (other "stuff" that shan't be mentioned. ).

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

This is really pissing me off. I had such a brilliant idea regarding the verification last week and lost somewhere between high speed chase 1 and high speed chase number 2 through the streets of Chicago in the 1970's.

The simplest option would be to allow them to check all employees with the no match letters but you'd have to account for victims of id theft and bureaucratic ups and such thus making the simple, complicated.

I don't even know if Atlasia has E-verify. If it doesn't, this bill is too narrowly focused to create such a thing through this.

We should use currently existing measures for verification. If a new one is needed, it should be created through a broader bill that amends this one and others if necessary.


For god sake's someone respond and do so intelligently without getting off on a tangent that will piss me off or insult me.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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A "floating" clause. So if another is offered it would be inserted ahead of this one, probably not allowed but lets see. Its not like any of you are watching this damn thread anymore.

I wanted to combine the amendments together but oh well.


Senators have 24 hours to object.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Tha sounds good to me.

I am using this as friendly acceptance. Again, I doubt anyone will care since no one is watching.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Amendment adopted.

I'd love to propose an amendment, HappyWarrior



No Contracts for Illegals Act

1)  Any organization with federal Atlasian government contracts which is found to knowingly employee illegal immigrants will lose their contracts promptly following the discovery of these immigrants.

2)  These organizations shall be added to a list of companies which shall not be given any sort of government contracts for one year.

3)  Any government money paid for these contracts shall be returned in fines.

4) The bill is not affecting contracts for companies, that employed illegal immigrants without knowing their legal status. Said companies are required to remove any illegal employees within a period of two months instead.

Do you still want this Kal? It looks like it got missed from a month ago.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Yes.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Would you be willing to withdraw it in exchange for this bundled amendment?

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[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I post sh**t and it doesn't appear till the third try, and then its garbled on the spacing for no reason what so ever, since I typed it hear not in a word processor. .

Pages take forever to load, constant jamming occurs. It annoys me to the point of a heart attack.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Ups... sorry.

Yes, I agree to withdraw in exchange.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Sponsor?

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Happy, better show up in next two days or...

[HappyWarrior]

Sorry Real life has gotten busy.  I'll accept it as friendly.