The Department of Justice -- Results of March Election Investigation

[Lunar]

As someone who has some familiarity with photoshop and no horse in these political squabbles, I took some time and inspected the screenshots in question, and they do not look heavily edited.  The spacing, alignment, etc. all look more or less right.

That does NOT mean, however, that it wasn't photoshopped, only that it doesn't appear heavily edited.  So, if Wormyguy received that exact same PM from another poster and put Franzl's avatar there to the left, it would look exactly the same, and it wouldn't take a skilled editor to create such a contraption.

I'm not sure how to "prove" this one way or the other short of having a neutral party log into the account to verify the PM's existence, but that would take a lot of trust.

Franzl, did you send a PM to Wormyguy at the exact same time as the timestamp in question?  If not, when was the last PM you sent him?

I do believe that falsifying PMs in order to defame another poster, ignoring the context of Atlasia completely, is a VERY serious transgression imo.  It should be a bannable offense if proven (but probably isn't).

[Franzl]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I sent this PM to him on March 14. To the best of my knowledge, this is the only one I've sent him recently (maybe ever).

Feel free to go to court, but I won't participate in election fraud.

[Хahar 🤔]

As someone who has some familiarity with photoshop and no horse in these political squabbles, I took some time and inspected the screenshots in question, and they do not look heavily edited.  The spacing, alignment, etc. all look more or less right.

That does NOT mean, however, that it wasn't photoshopped, only that it doesn't appear heavily edited.  So, if Wormyguy received that exact same PM from another poster and put Franzl's avatar there to the left, it would look exactly the same, and it wouldn't take a skilled editor to create such a contraption.

I'm not sure how to "prove" this one way or the other short of having a neutral party log into the account to verify the PM's existence, but that would take a lot of trust.

Franzl, did you send a PM to Wormyguy at the exact same time as the timestamp in question?  If not, when was the last PM you sent him?

I do believe that falsifying PMs in order to defame another poster, ignoring the context of Atlasia completely, is a VERY serious transgression imo.  It should be a bannable offense if proven (but probably isn't).

For what it's worth, it's incredibly easy to edit a screenshot of a PM to make it say whatever you want. Somewhere on this forum there's a screenshot I made a long time ago in which Meeker tells me to go die in a car crash.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I sent this PM to him on March 14. To the best of my knowledge, this is the only one I've sent him recently (maybe ever).

Feel free to go to court, but I won't participate in election fraud.

So all he did was little "edit".

[Lunar]

As someone who has some familiarity with photoshop and no horse in these political squabbles, I took some time and inspected the screenshots in question, and they do not look heavily edited.  The spacing, alignment, etc. all look more or less right.

That does NOT mean, however, that it wasn't photoshopped, only that it doesn't appear heavily edited.  So, if Wormyguy received that exact same PM from another poster and put Franzl's avatar there to the left, it would look exactly the same, and it wouldn't take a skilled editor to create such a contraption.

I'm not sure how to "prove" this one way or the other short of having a neutral party log into the account to verify the PM's existence, but that would take a lot of trust.

Franzl, did you send a PM to Wormyguy at the exact same time as the timestamp in question?  If not, when was the last PM you sent him?

I do believe that falsifying PMs in order to defame another poster, ignoring the context of Atlasia completely, is a VERY serious transgression imo.  It should be a bannable offense if proven (but probably isn't).

For what it's worth, it's incredibly easy to edit a screenshot of a PM to make it say whatever you want. Somewhere on this forum there's a screenshot I made a long time ago in which Meeker tells me to go die in a car crash.

I understand, but you are more likely to make an error (even 1-2 pixels off) if you are using your image editor's text tool to write your own message.  It's my suspicion that if this was photoshopped, that it was not written out with a text tool, but that's not out of the question either, as you note.

In particular, I looked for alignment and spacing issues with the text in Wormyguy's screenshot and was not able to find any.  I even created my own PM with the exact same text and sent it to Gustaf to compare it to (he was confused) and took a screenshot and zoomed all the way into it to look at individual pixels.  Everything looked the same in my message to Gustaf.

I'm looking at new evidence now (hence I deleted my last post stating affirmatively that things were inconclusive).

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

More photoshop editions?

[Rowan]

Wormy is cheating on his Spanish homework?

[Grumpier Than Thou]

Wormy is cheating on his Spanish homework?

Thank God I wasn't the only one to notice that XD

[Lunar]

Additional stuff for people to scrutinize:

Why are these different times?



In my own PM box, all of the times in the list and the PMs below match to the second.

[Lunar]

note the timestamp on Franzl's own quote aligns with the list to the second, but not in the quoted PM:

Feel free to go to court, but I won't participate in election fraud.

[Sam Spade]

bingo, Lunar.

[Bacon King]

So, odds Hamilton was the mastermind behind this somehow?

[tpfkaw]

Wormy is cheating on his Spanish homework?

No, I was writing a note in Spanish, and checking to make sure it was correct.

So, odds Hamilton was the mastermind behind this somehow?

Very high, actually.

In b4 TL;DR:

I'm not Hamilton myself, I don't like piling lies on top of lies, and I'm not nearly as skilled at lying, so I'll admit that that PM was fake.  I half-wrote a post claiming that I had deleted it, panicked, and then the second set of screenshots is fake, but the first was not - but that's ridiculous.  It's unfair to Franzl, who's probably a fine person (albeit not my cup of tea).  I had a funny idea that I would "get back" at Franzl for spreading lies about me earlier; but then again I hadn't really acted in a manner that would be likely to make him or very many other people outside a certain clique like me.  I've acted rude and churlish to quite a few people, and I haven't been the nicest guy in the world (which is not entirely typical of me, I've been well-liked at several other internet forums).  If I might be indulged with an excuse, it was based on reports I had received of what Franzl was saying in private, so I'd say it at least counts as "based on a true story" by horror movie standards.  That's a stupid excuse, no excuse, in fact.  I accept full responsibility for what I've done; I've been a certifiable asshole and a half, to use my gift of understatement.

It's a real shame that this will likely be peoples' last impression of me; my friends and family know me as the person who feels guilty for hours after swatting a fly.  You'll know me as that asshole who'd do anything to make himself look good and other people look bad.  And you know what?  You would be right.  I've been a complete creep, and I sincerely apologize to all involved.  I don't expect any of you to believe me or forgive me; I've probably crossed that line.  With that, I'll apologize to everyone I've been an asshole to during my time here.  I apologize to anyone whose trust I've betrayed.  I apologize to Franzl, for being such a creep that I can't find the words to express it.  I apologize to Jbrase for taking advantage of him (a while ago).  I apologize to Junkie for making my ridiculous accusations towards you, merely because you did what I would do in the same situation.  I apologize to Dallasfan for ruining his party in this game, which I blame on myself.  I apologize to Snowguy for being insensitive towards his situation.  I apologize to Yelnoc for overreacting and being downright mean.  I apologize to GPORTER for taking advantage of him.  I apologize to Marokai, BRTD, Al, and others whom I've had an obsession with mocking, and I apologize to anyone I'm forgetting whom I've been rude or abrasive towards.

On the very off chance that I survive this, I fully intend to take a break from Atlas for a little while.  I will update my TL, comment occasionally on the 2012 or congressional race forums (because that's what I signed up for, and that's the beauty of this site - it's a way better and smarter aggregator than Politico or any given blog), and keep in contact with friends.  I won't do much else, and certainly nothing in Atlasia (which feeds my worst instinct, a near-pathological obsession with "winning" any game I play).  I've met some good friends here, and it would be a real shame to lose contact with them.  I don't expect much sympathy, but that's the reason for why I've been acting this way all day.  I regretted it immediately after creating the post with the fake PM, but felt I had to pile lie on top of lie afterwards in order to keep from getting banned.  The reason why I'm worried about that is not because I'm worried that I might no longer be able to call Zachary Nelson of Minneapolis, Minnesota a retard, but because I'm in a panic that I'll never be able to talk to some of the very nice people I've met here again.  Like I said, I don't expect sympathy, but I thought I'd just throw that out there.

Ramble over.

[Yelnoc]

Wormy is cheating on his Spanish homework?

No, I was writing a note in Spanish, and checking to make sure it was correct.

So, odds Hamilton was the mastermind behind this somehow?

Very high, actually.

In b4 TL;DR:

I'm not Hamilton myself, I don't like piling lies on top of lies, and I'm not nearly as skilled at lying, so I'll admit that that PM was fake.  I half-wrote a post claiming that I had deleted it, panicked, and then the second set of screenshots is fake, but the first was not - but that's ridiculous.  It's unfair to Franzl, who's probably a fine person (albeit not my cup of tea).  I had a funny idea that I would "get back" at Franzl for spreading lies about me earlier; but then again I hadn't really acted in a manner that would be likely to make him or very many other people outside a certain clique like me.  I've acted rude and churlish to quite a few people, and I haven't been the nicest guy in the world (which is not entirely typical of me, I've been well-liked at several other internet forums).  If I might be indulged with an excuse, it was based on reports I had received of what Franzl was saying in private, so I'd say it at least counts as "based on a true story" by horror movie standards.  That's a stupid excuse, no excuse, in fact.  I accept full responsibility for what I've done; I've been a certifiable asshole and a half, to use my gift of understatement.

It's a real shame that this will likely be peoples' last impression of me; my friends and family know me as the person who feels guilty for hours after swatting a fly.  You'll know me as that asshole who'd do anything to make himself look good and other people look bad.  And you know what?  You would be right.  I've been a complete creep, and I sincerely apologize to all involved.  I don't expect any of you to believe me or forgive me; I've probably crossed that line.  With that, I'll apologize to everyone I've been an asshole to during my time here.  I apologize to anyone whose trust I've betrayed.  I apologize to Franzl, for being such a creep that I can't find the words to express it.  I apologize to Jbrase for taking advantage of him (a while ago).  I apologize to Junkie for making my ridiculous accusations towards you, merely because you did what I would do in the same situation.  I apologize to Dallasfan for ruining his party in this game, which I blame on myself.  I apologize to Snowguy for being insensitive towards his situation.  I apologize to Yelnoc for overreacting and being downright mean.  I apologize to GPORTER for taking advantage of him.  I apologize to Marokai, BRTD, Al, and others whom I've had an obsession with mocking, and I apologize to anyone I'm forgetting whom I've been rude or abrasive towards.

On the very off chance that I survive this, I fully intend to take a break from Atlas for a little while.  I will update my TL, comment occasionally on the 2012 or congressional race forums (because that's what I signed up for, and that's the beauty of this site - it's a way better and smarter aggregator than Politico or any given blog), and keep in contact with friends.  I won't do much else, and certainly nothing in Atlasia (which feeds my worst instinct, a near-pathological obsession with "winning" any game I play).  I've met some good friends here, and it would be a real shame to lose contact with them.  I don't expect much sympathy, but that's the reason for why I've been acting this way all day.  I regretted it immediately after creating the post with the fake PM, but felt I had to pile lie on top of lie afterwards in order to keep from getting banned.  The reason why I'm worried about that is not because I'm worried that I might no longer be able to call Zachary Nelson of Minneapolis, Minnesota a retard, but because I'm in a panic that I'll never be able to talk to some of the very nice people I've met here again.  Like I said, I don't expect sympathy, but I thought I'd just throw that out there.

Ramble over.

The internet does tend to bring out the worst in us.  I didn't interact with you much on ah.com and cf.net but you seemed like a decent guy at both those forums.  Your apology is accepted; I hope after a month or so cool down you'll be back to yourself.

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

We all mostly young. A month or two to "cool down" is not as important as a month or two to "grow and learn".

[Lunar]

On the very off chance that I survive this, I fully intend to take a break from Atlas for a little while.

1.  It's not my understanding that falsifying PMs to defame another poster is considered ban-worthy behavior.  It should be though.  Merely posting PMs is considered an offense.  It does seem like it is a violation of the Terms of Service that you signed in order to be a member on this forum:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

2.  Yeah, time to take that break.

[Lunar]

As a side note: unless you are comfortable looking at individual pixels, do NOT try and falsify PMs on Atlas.

I don't even know what this dispute is even about (I never even bothered to look up what Franzl was even accused of).

[Marokai Backbeat]

I'm sad I missed a controversy.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Don't expect me to buy in a loser's last attempt not to appear like a total asshole. You have kept lying until you had no choice but admitting your fraud, and now you want us to think you are being sincere ? Also, blaming your behaviour on Atlasia by explaining how nice a person you are IRL is not only a lame excuse, it's also an insult to all Atlasians. The only thing you can do now is to go away and never come back.

[Franzl]

I for one actually do appreciate his apology. Don't know how sincere it is, only time will tell...but it's certainly a nice gesture.

[minionofmidas]

Oh, Atlasia.

So, odds Hamilton was the mastermind behind this somehow?

Very high, actually.

Wait, how so?

I know you're not Hamilton - you were just as interested in hardcore spin but much worse at it. Which I guess makes you the better person.

[Mechaman]

Don't expect me to buy in a loser's last attempt not to appear like a total asshole. You have kept lying until you had no choice but admitting your fraud, and now you want us to think you are being sincere ? Also, blaming your behaviour on Atlasia by explaining how nice a person you are IRL is not only a lame excuse, it's also an insult to all Atlasians. The only thing you can do now is to go away and never come back.

Granted, Hamilton did try something similar to this once (under his sock "Swing Voter").  However, there seems to be something sincere about Wormy's post.
And as for blaming his behavior on Atlasia, I don't see that anywhere in his post.  He was a jerk outside of Atlasia as well.  Not that I'm claiming to be of higher moral ground or anything, I've made my own mistakes in the past.  The point is we all have our bad moments and give a horrible impression on the rest of the world.
So yeah, I really think we should give Wormy a second chance.  I can't really think of anybody else who has been this honest about a screwup in Atlasia in recent memory.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Don't expect me to buy in a loser's last attempt not to appear like a total asshole. You have kept lying until you had no choice but admitting your fraud, and now you want us to think you are being sincere ? Also, blaming your behaviour on Atlasia by explaining how nice a person you are IRL is not only a lame excuse, it's also an insult to all Atlasians. The only thing you can do now is to go away and never come back.

Granted, Hamilton did try something similar to this once (under his sock "Swing Voter").  However, there seems to be something sincere about Wormy's post.
And as for blaming his behavior on Atlasia, I don't see that anywhere in his post.  He was a jerk outside of Atlasia as well.  Not that I'm claiming to he of higher moral ground or anything, I've made my own mistakes in the past.  The point is we all have our bad moments and give a horrible impression on the rest of the world.
So yeah, I really think we should give Wormy a second chance.  I can't really think of anybody else who has been this honest about a screwup in Atlasia in recent memory.

I fail to see why in the world someone who manipulated, slandered or lied to so many people should be given a "second chance". And I fail to see why anyone could consider his apologies "honest". I won't say I've never done something I was later ashamed of, but this by far goes beyond anything I could have imagined. If Yates was banned, so should wormy.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

If Yates was banned, so should wormy.

Exactly. Even more, wormy's record was filled with slandering ("Junkie is Hamilton!"), manipulation (recent election stuff and forget PM) and trolling.

Either play fair in Atlasia, or GTFO.

[Mechaman]

If Yates was banned, so should wormy.

Exactly. Even more, wormy's record was filled with slandering ("Junkie is Hamilton!"), manipulation (recent election stuff and forget PM) and trolling.

Either play fair in Atlasia, or GTFO.

Okay the whole "Junkie is Hamilton" episode was outrageous.  At the time I couldn't believe my ears that anybody would accuse Junkie of being Hamilton.  Granted, every politician that has ever screwed up who wasn't a total idiot (see Blagojevich) has taken the apology route.  So yeah maybe you guys got a point.
And I can hardly say that after Wormy tried a personal character assassination on me in December that he endeared himself to me.  It was easily one of the most disrespectful things anybody said to me, and despite me not sinking down to his level he still pressed on.
It wouldn't surprise me if he reported a few posts in the past.
And this latest event, coercing GPORTER to invalidate his vote, makes him a man after Hamilton's own heart.
So yeah maybe we shouldn't, but I'm willing to give him at least one second chance.  After that, he's on his own.