The results of Obamanomics

[CitizenX]

CitizenX,

Is yours an act?

Do you really believe that if we continue to devalue the currency we will be on the road to prosperity?

Apparently the world of reality is too complicated for you. 

Too bad you seem to have trouble reading, as I posted the information (including link) on the EPA regulations which are causing the shut-down of coal fired electric generating plants on this thread!  But perhaps, you believe that the less electric power we have, the better.

Carl,

If you want the freedom to pursue unfettered capitalism without regard to the effects on the environment move to China.  You Republicans are NOT smart.  All these ingenious ideas have been tried.  Since you like links check this out... http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/08/07/us-china-pollution-police-idUST7191620070807

China's economy is doing better than ours.  Oh, and a traffic cop in their capitol city has a life expectancy of 43 yrs because the pollution is terrible.  No offense Carl I like America THE BEAUTIFUL.  I have no desire to live in a toxic capitalistic wasteland like China.  If you love it so much move there and inhale all the fossil fuel based wonderfulness.

You and your Republican friends are going to learn that you can't get something for nothing.

[True Federalist]

Its nice to see you admit that you want the dollar devalued. 

In your strange world, we will be so much better off when it reaches the level of the currency of Zimbabwe.

CARL, comparing a devaluation of the dollar to a healthy level for the economy to the hyperinflation of Zimbabwe is like comparing an obese person who needs to go on a diet to someone who suffers from anorexia nervosa.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Its nice to see you admit that you want the dollar devalued.  

In your strange world, we will be so much better off when it reaches the level of the currency of Zimbabwe.

CARL, comparing a devaluation of the dollar to a healthy level for the economy to the hyperinflation of Zimbabwe is like comparing an obese person who needs to go on a diet to someone who suffers from anorexia nervosa.

First, there is NO SUCH THING as a "healthy level of inflation"!!!   There is merely bad inflation and worse inflation.  That you are in favor of inflation is no suprise.  You are really strange.

Next, some more data for you to try to spin for your master...

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Retail sales fell in May

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110614/bs_nm/us_usa_economy_retail_3

By MARTIN CRUTSINGER, AP Economics Writer Martin Crutsinger, Ap Economics Writer – 1 hr 23 mins ago

WASHINGTON – Businesses added to their stockpiles for a 16th consecutive month in April. But their sales grew at the slowest pace in 10 months, supporting other data that show the economy weakened this spring.

Also,

WASHINGTON, June 14, 2011 – For the third consecutive month, NFIB’s Small Business Optimism Index fell

http://www.nfib.com/research-foundation/surveys/small-business-economic-trends?utm_campaign=SBET&utm_source=Releases&utm_medium=Releases

[CARLHAYDEN]

CitizenX,

Is yours an act?

Do you really believe that if we continue to devalue the currency we will be on the road to prosperity?

Apparently the world of reality is too complicated for you. 

Too bad you seem to have trouble reading, as I posted the information (including link) on the EPA regulations which are causing the shut-down of coal fired electric generating plants on this thread!  But perhaps, you believe that the less electric power we have, the better.

Carl,

If you want the freedom to pursue unfettered capitalism without regard to the effects on the environment move to China.  You Republicans are NOT smart.  All these ingenious ideas have been tried.  Since you like links check this out... http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/08/07/us-china-pollution-police-idUST7191620070807

China's economy is doing better than ours.  Oh, and a traffic cop in their capitol city has a life expectancy of 43 yrs because the pollution is terrible.  No offense Carl I like America THE BEAUTIFUL.  I have no desire to live in a toxic capitalistic wasteland like China.  If you love it so much move there and inhale all the fossil fuel based wonderfulness.

You and your Republican friends are going to learn that you can't get something for nothing.

Apparently it is an act.

We already have Opebo.

No need for a cheep knockoff

[WillK]

First, there is NO SUCH THING as a "healthy level of inflation"!!!   There is merely bad inflation and worse inflation.  That you are in favor of inflation is no suprise.  You are really strange.

So you think 0% Inflation is the only good way to be?   
Talk about strange!

[CitizenX]

Its nice to see you admit that you want the dollar devalued.  

In your strange world, we will be so much better off when it reaches the level of the currency of Zimbabwe.

CARL, comparing a devaluation of the dollar to a healthy level for the economy to the hyperinflation of Zimbabwe is like comparing an obese person who needs to go on a diet to someone who suffers from anorexia nervosa.

First, there is NO SUCH THING as a "healthy level of inflation"!!!   There is merely bad inflation and worse inflation.  That you are in favor of inflation is no suprise.  You are really strange.

Carl!

Are you being serious or is this just one big joke?  Not a single central bank sets its inflation target to zero.  Where are you getting this stuff?  If a countries inflation rate is 1.5% I don't know a single central banker who would even be discussing inflation let alone intervening to push it to zero.  Every single central bank is in favor of some positive level of inflation.  No central bank sets its target at or below 0.  Again Carl, what do you read?!

[CARLHAYDEN]

Its nice to see you admit that you want the dollar devalued.  

In your strange world, we will be so much better off when it reaches the level of the currency of Zimbabwe.

CARL, comparing a devaluation of the dollar to a healthy level for the economy to the hyperinflation of Zimbabwe is like comparing an obese person who needs to go on a diet to someone who suffers from anorexia nervosa.

First, there is NO SUCH THING as a "healthy level of inflation"!!!   There is merely bad inflation and worse inflation.  That you are in favor of inflation is no suprise.  You are really strange.

Carl!

Are you being serious or is this just one big joke?  Not a single central bank sets its inflation target to zero.  Where are you getting this stuff?  If a countries inflation rate is 1.5% I don't know a single central banker who would even be discussing inflation let alone intervening to push it to zero.  Every single central bank is in favor of some positive level of inflation.  No central bank sets its target at or below 0.  Again Carl, what do you read?!

You are really crazy.

Inflation is good?!?

Yeah, and the more the merrier?

Get real.

[True Federalist]

Its nice to see you admit that you want the dollar devalued.  

In your strange world, we will be so much better off when it reaches the level of the currency of Zimbabwe.

CARL, comparing a devaluation of the dollar to a healthy level for the economy to the hyperinflation of Zimbabwe is like comparing an obese person who needs to go on a diet to someone who suffers from anorexia nervosa.

First, there is NO SUCH THING as a "healthy level of inflation"!!!   There is merely bad inflation and worse inflation.  That you are in favor of inflation is no surprise.

CARL, are you one of those weirdos who thinks that bimetallism actually has a snowball's chance in hell of working?  Only someone who subscribes to the theory that objects have an inherent fixed value (which is what would be needed to have bimetalism work) would be likely to confuse currency revaluation with inflation.  The value of the Chinese yuan and the American dollar can only remain at a fixed ratio by means of an artificial peg, such as what the Chinese have been trying to maintain.  Their effort to distort the value of the dollar relative to the yuan so that the dollar is artificially overvalued is one factor that has contributed to our weak economy.

Of the various means to try and stimulate the US economy, dollar devaluation is one of least inflationary, so long as the economy is not near full employment, which ours most decidedly is not.  While its effect of increasing import prices does have a modest inflationary impact, mainly in foreign goods for which no good domestic substitute exists, the increased demand for domestic goods has a negligible effect on inflation unless we are near full employment.

The main problem with currency devaluation is that like tariffs, it is a tool that only works if not everybody tries to do it.  We've allowed the Chinese and other countries to make use of it, and so long as we were near full employment, it was beneficial to our economy to have the dollar overvalued.  That is not the case now.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Its nice to see you admit that you want the dollar devalued.  

In your strange world, we will be so much better off when it reaches the level of the currency of Zimbabwe.

CARL, comparing a devaluation of the dollar to a healthy level for the economy to the hyperinflation of Zimbabwe is like comparing an obese person who needs to go on a diet to someone who suffers from anorexia nervosa.

First, there is NO SUCH THING as a "healthy level of inflation"!!!   There is merely bad inflation and worse inflation.  That you are in favor of inflation is no surprise.

CARL, are you one of those weirdos who thinks that bimetallism actually has a snowball's chance in hell of working?  Only someone who subscribes to the theory that objects have an inherent fixed value (which is what would be needed to have bimetalism work) would be likely to confuse currency revaluation with inflation.  The value of the Chinese yuan and the American dollar can only remain at a fixed ratio by means of an artificial peg, such as what the Chinese have been trying to maintain.  Their effort to distort the value of the dollar relative to the yuan so that the dollar is artificially overvalued is one factor that has contributed to our weak economy.

Of the various means to try and stimulate the US economy, dollar devaluation is one of least inflationary, so long as the economy is not near full employment, which ours most decidedly is not.  While its effect of increasing import prices does have a modest inflationary impact, mainly in foreign goods for which no good domestic substitute exists, the increased demand for domestic goods has a negligible effect on inflation unless we are near full employment.

The main problem with currency devaluation is that like tariffs, it is a tool that only works if not everybody tries to do it.  We've allowed the Chinese and other countries to make use of it, and so long as we were near full employment, it was beneficial to our economy to have the dollar overvalued.  That is not the case now.

You keep getting stranger and stranger.

There is absolutely NO mention of bimetalism in any of my posts, but YOU choose to bring that up.  Are you just trying to create another red herring?

You misunderstanding of currency exchange rates is unsurprising. So, let me try to explain it to you.  If currency A is undergoing inflation (lets call it the American dollar) and currency B is NOT undergoing such inflation (say the Australian or Canadian currency), then the exchange rate will charge, with the American dollar being valued less (over time) relative to the Australian or Canadian currency.  This is one (but not the entire) explanation or exchange rate changes.

It is nice (and humorous) or you to blame thd "weak economy" (presumably in the United States) on China.  But, YOU were telling us everything was great under the Obamamessiah's policies.  ROTFLMAO!

Here is an explanation for you:

http://mises.org/daily/4256

[CitizenX]

Its nice to see you admit that you want the dollar devalued.  

In your strange world, we will be so much better off when it reaches the level of the currency of Zimbabwe.

CARL, comparing a devaluation of the dollar to a healthy level for the economy to the hyperinflation of Zimbabwe is like comparing an obese person who needs to go on a diet to someone who suffers from anorexia nervosa.

First, there is NO SUCH THING as a "healthy level of inflation"!!!   There is merely bad inflation and worse inflation.  That you are in favor of inflation is no suprise.  You are really strange.

Carl!

Are you being serious or is this just one big joke?  Not a single central bank sets its inflation target to zero.  Where are you getting this stuff?  If a countries inflation rate is 1.5% I don't know a single central banker who would even be discussing inflation let alone intervening to push it to zero.  Every single central bank is in favor of some positive level of inflation.  No central bank sets its target at or below 0.  Again Carl, what do you read?!

You are really crazy.

Inflation is good?!?

Yeah, and the more the merrier?

Get real.

I don't run the worlds central banks.  If you think I'm crazy then you must think the people that set the inflation targets for the world's central banks are crazy.

So you think the Republican appointees Greenspan and Bernacke are crazy?

Do you think the president of the ECB is crazy?

Here's what happens when you go to school and actually read about central bank policy...

Since 1999, euro area headline inflation has averaged 2.1% a little above the ECB’s comfort zone of below but close to 2%.

-Jacques Cailloux

http://www.handelsblatt.com/politik/konjunktur/shadow-council/is-the-ecbs-inflation-target-too-strict-is-the-ecb-too-ambitious-in-trying-to-achieve-it-soon/2951984.html

So who knows more about economics the president of the ECB or some nameless hack that posts uninformed nonsense on internet forums?

[CARLHAYDEN]

Its nice to see you admit that you want the dollar devalued.  

In your strange world, we will be so much better off when it reaches the level of the currency of Zimbabwe.

CARL, comparing a devaluation of the dollar to a healthy level for the economy to the hyperinflation of Zimbabwe is like comparing an obese person who needs to go on a diet to someone who suffers from anorexia nervosa.

First, there is NO SUCH THING as a "healthy level of inflation"!!!   There is merely bad inflation and worse inflation.  That you are in favor of inflation is no suprise.  You are really strange.

Carl!

Are you being serious or is this just one big joke?  Not a single central bank sets its inflation target to zero.  Where are you getting this stuff?  If a countries inflation rate is 1.5% I don't know a single central banker who would even be discussing inflation let alone intervening to push it to zero.  Every single central bank is in favor of some positive level of inflation.  No central bank sets its target at or below 0.  Again Carl, what do you read?!

You are really crazy.

Inflation is good?!?

Yeah, and the more the merrier?

Get real.

I don't run the worlds central banks.  If you think I'm crazy then you must think the people that set the inflation targets for the world's central banks are crazy.

So you think the Republican appointees Greenspan and Bernacke are crazy?

Do you think the president of the ECB is crazy?

Here's what happens when you go to school and actually read about central bank policy...

Since 1999, euro area headline inflation has averaged 2.1% a little above the ECB’s comfort zone of below but close to 2%.

-Jacques Cailloux

http://www.handelsblatt.com/politik/konjunktur/shadow-council/is-the-ecbs-inflation-target-too-strict-is-the-ecb-too-ambitious-in-trying-to-achieve-it-soon/2951984.html

So who knows more about economics the president of the ECB or some nameless hack that posts uninformed nonsense on internet forums?

A two year old knows more than the Preisdent of ECB, since a two year old knows nothing of economics, and the President of the ECB is deluded!

Bernacke is one of the most evil men alive.

Look at how wonderful everything is progressing under the guidance of the two lunatics.

A 'random walk' policy would be better than those they have pursued!

[CitizenX]

A two year old knows more than the Preisdent of ECB, since a two year old knows nothing of economics, and the President of the ECB is deluded!

Bernacke is one of the most evil men alive.

Look at how wonderful everything is progressing under the guidance of the two lunatics.

A 'random walk' policy would be better than those they have pursued!

Ok.  I have no rebuttal.

[CARLHAYDEN]

A two year old knows more than the Preisdent of ECB, since a two year old knows nothing of economics, and the President of the ECB is deluded!

Bernacke is one of the most evil men alive.

Look at how wonderful everything is progressing under the guidance of the two lunatics.

A 'random walk' policy would be better than those they have pursued!

Ok.  I have no rebuttal.

No, you are simply incapable to comprehending a rebuittal!

Homebuilder Confidence in U.S. Slides to Nine-Month Low on Sales Outlook

By Timothy R. Homan - Jun 15, 2011 7:00 AM MT Wed Jun 15 14:00:00 GMT 2011

Confidence among U.S. homebuilders slumped in June to the lowest level in nine months as executives turned more pessimistic on the outlook for sales, a sign that any pickup will take time to develop.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-15/homebuilder-confidence-in-u-s-slides-to-nine-month-low-on-sales-outlook.html

[True Federalist]

You misunderstanding of currency exchange rates is unsurprising. So, let me try to explain it to you.  If currency A is undergoing inflation (lets call it the American dollar) and currency B is NOT undergoing such inflation (say the Australian or Canadian currency), then the exchange rate will charge, with the American dollar being valued less (over time) relative to the Australian or Canadian currency.  This is one (but not the entire) explanation or exchange rate changes.

Amazing! For once you don't assert that that something economic doesn't have just one factor affecting it!  What your analysis misses is that value is never absolute. (If it were, there would be no such thing as trade,)  Nor is inflation uniform.  I'd go into more detail, but I don't have the time tonight.

It is nice (and humorous) or you to blame thd "weak economy" (presumably in the United States) on China.  But, YOU were telling us everything was great under the Obamamessiah's policies.  ROTFLMAO!

Stating that everything isn't utter doom and gloom is not the same as saying they are great.

As for this Obamamessian junk you keep asserting I believe in, I challenge you to present one single post in which I have ever said that Obama or any other politician is so wise that all we need do to reach paradise is follow his or policies.

Here is an explanation for you:

http://mises.org/daily/4256

I read it, and it misses one crucial point.  Managing the economy for the short term maximization of producer profit is not the sole desirable goal in economics.  If it were, the analysis given there is spot on save for some subtle hyperbole.

Let us assume that at this point the natural, market dollar–yuan exchange rate is one to four, which means that Widget X effectively costs two dollars (one dollar buys four yuan, and the widget costs eight yuan).

However, China's central bank steps in and inflates the yuan, causing the exchange rate to change to one to eight (one dollar to eight yuan). Now Widget X will cost the American consumer only one dollar.

If anyone tried to shift the valuation that much, there are quite a few ways to get around it.  A dollar than is overvalued to twice what it would be without manipulation may make the math easy for examples, but it could never get that out of balance without producing a black market in currency exchange.  There is no such market for dollar-yuan exchange.

The reason the Chinese have acted to keep their currency undervalued is that for quite some time their primary economic concern has been to increase the number of jobs their economy can provide its people.

For the past couple of years, our primary economic concern has been how to increase the jobs our economy can provide our people.  Currency revaluation is one tool that can be used to achieve that.  As with any economic tool it does have its limits.

[CitizenX]

A two year old knows more than the Preisdent of ECB, since a two year old knows nothing of economics, and the President of the ECB is deluded!

Bernacke is one of the most evil men alive.

Look at how wonderful everything is progressing under the guidance of the two lunatics.

A 'random walk' policy would be better than those they have pursued!

Ok.  I have no rebuttal.

No, you are simply incapable to comprehending a rebuittal!

Homebuilder Confidence in U.S. Slides to Nine-Month Low on Sales Outlook

By Timothy R. Homan - Jun 15, 2011 7:00 AM MT Wed Jun 15 14:00:00 GMT 2011

Confidence among U.S. homebuilders slumped in June to the lowest level in nine months as executives turned more pessimistic on the outlook for sales, a sign that any pickup will take time to develop.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-15/homebuilder-confidence-in-u-s-slides-to-nine-month-low-on-sales-outlook.html

Foreclosure filings in the U.S. tumbled last month to the lowest in almost four years, according to RealtyTrac Inc.

Thank god "Obamanomics" (whatever that is) is beginning to stop all these W Bush foreclosures.

[True Federalist]

Foreclosure filings in the U.S. tumbled last month to the lowest in almost four years, according to RealtyTrac Inc.

Thank god "Obamanomics" (whatever that is) is beginning to stop all these W Bush foreclosures.

Unfortunately, this isn't very good news because what matters isn't the drop in foreclosures, but why it is happening. A major reason for the drop is that banks are now having to get their paperwork done right before foreclosing rather than just making assertions vaguely backed up by forms churned out by a lawyer mill.  The real estate bubble has yet to fully deflate.

CARL will of course just claim I'm making an excuse for the "Obamamessiah", but the after effect of this bubble, which popped before Obama was elected, much less in office is one reason why our economy is in trouble.  Our economy is undergoing a major adjustment, and I expect it'll be at least a decade before home construction gets to be anything close to normal again, let alone the abnormal absurdity it reached in the 201st decade.

[CitizenX]

Foreclosure filings in the U.S. tumbled last month to the lowest in almost four years, according to RealtyTrac Inc.

Thank god "Obamanomics" (whatever that is) is beginning to stop all these W Bush foreclosures.

Unfortunately, this isn't very good news because what matters isn't the drop in foreclosures, but why it is happening. A major reason for the drop is that banks are now having to get their paperwork done right before foreclosing rather than just making assertions vaguely backed up by forms churned out by a lawyer mill.  The real estate bubble has yet to fully deflate.

CARL will of course just claim I'm making an excuse for the "Obamamessiah", but the after effect of this bubble, which popped before Obama was elected, much less in office is one reason why our economy is in trouble.  Our economy is undergoing a major adjustment, and I expect it'll be at least a decade before home construction gets to be anything close to normal again, let alone the abnormal absurdity it reached in the 201st decade.

Yes of course, I knew that.  I was just trying to join into Carl's theme for the thread.  You know, quoting monthly economic statistics totally out of context and drawing wild conclusions about macroeconomics.

The housing market collapse has nothing to do with W Bush or Obama.  And it is a bigger disaster than most people realize.  I would vote for anyone regardless of party if I honestly thought they would do a better job of fixing the economy.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Foreclosure filings in the U.S. tumbled last month to the lowest in almost four years, according to RealtyTrac Inc.

Thank god "Obamanomics" (whatever that is) is beginning to stop all these W Bush foreclosures.

Unfortunately, this isn't very good news because what matters isn't the drop in foreclosures, but why it is happening. A major reason for the drop is that banks are now having to get their paperwork done right before foreclosing rather than just making assertions vaguely backed up by forms churned out by a lawyer mill.  The real estate bubble has yet to fully deflate.

CARL will of course just claim I'm making an excuse for the "Obamamessiah", but the after effect of this bubble, which popped before Obama was elected, much less in office is one reason why our economy is in trouble.  Our economy is undergoing a major adjustment, and I expect it'll be at least a decade before home construction gets to be anything close to normal again, let alone the abnormal absurdity it reached in the 201st decade.

Well, at least you have the 'virtue' of consistency!  You are consistently a defender of your Obamamessiah and therefor consistently wrong.

I'll try to explain it to you in simple terms.

The problem with foreclosures has radically changed under Obama.

While the initial problem which began before the Obama was the result of bad loans, securitzation of said loans, etc., the problem since Obama has assumed office has changed due to increases in unemployment.

Loans which would have been 'good,' with the rates of unemployment we experienced under Bush went bad under Obama due to increased unemployment rates.

Now, the so-called 'stimulus' bill was in fact basically just a spending bill for liberal interests which did not 'stimulate' the economy.

Experts urged that the money go for infrastructure (particularly transportation) improvements, but were largely ignored.

So, yes, Obama policies made things worse!

[CARLHAYDEN]

A two year old knows more than the Preisdent of ECB, since a two year old knows nothing of economics, and the President of the ECB is deluded!

Bernacke is one of the most evil men alive.

Look at how wonderful everything is progressing under the guidance of the two lunatics.

A 'random walk' policy would be better than those they have pursued!

Ok.  I have no rebuttal.

Oh, and since you reject data and logic, prefering "authority," here's an authority for you:

IMF cuts U.S. growth forecast, warns of crisis

By Luciana Lopez

SAO PAULO (Reuters) - The International Monetary Fund cut its forecast for U.S. economic growth on Friday and warned Washington and debt-ridden European countries that they are "playing with fire" unless they take immediate steps to reduce their budget deficits.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/imf-cuts-u-growth-forecast-warns-crisis-130529571.html

[CitizenX]

The problem with foreclosures has radically changed under Obama.

While the initial problem which began before the Obama was the result of bad loans, securitzation of said loans, etc., the problem since Obama has assumed office has changed due to increases in unemployment.

Loans which would have been 'good,' with the rates of unemployment we experienced under Bush went bad under Obama due to increased unemployment rates.

So, yes, Obama policies made things worse!

[Fmr. Emperor PiT]

The problem with foreclosures has radically changed under Obama.

While the initial problem which began before the Obama was the result of bad loans, securitzation of said loans, etc., the problem since Obama has assumed office has changed due to increases in unemployment.

Loans which would have been 'good,' with the rates of unemployment we experienced under Bush went bad under Obama due to increased unemployment rates.

So, yes, Obama policies made things worse!

     Based on the lengths of those bars, it's pretty clear that there are fewer jobs as of this March than there were in January 2009. That graph might be a rebuttal to something, but definitely not the bolded section.

[CitizenX]

The problem with foreclosures has radically changed under Obama.

While the initial problem which began before the Obama was the result of bad loans, securitzation of said loans, etc., the problem since Obama has assumed office has changed due to increases in unemployment.

Loans which would have been 'good,' with the rates of unemployment we experienced under Bush went bad under Obama due to increased unemployment rates.

So, yes, Obama policies made things worse!

     Based on the lengths of those bars, it's pretty clear that there are fewer jobs as of this March than there were in January 2009. That graph might be a rebuttal to something, but definitely not the bolded section.

If you look at this graph and the conclusion you come to is Bush was good for job growth and Obama was terrible for job growth... So therefor the housing crisis was made worse because we elected Obama... Then I think that says more about your own political agenda than the objective data presented in the graph.

[Fmr. Emperor PiT]

The problem with foreclosures has radically changed under Obama.

While the initial problem which began before the Obama was the result of bad loans, securitzation of said loans, etc., the problem since Obama has assumed office has changed due to increases in unemployment.

Loans which would have been 'good,' with the rates of unemployment we experienced under Bush went bad under Obama due to increased unemployment rates.

So, yes, Obama policies made things worse!

     Based on the lengths of those bars, it's pretty clear that there are fewer jobs as of this March than there were in January 2009. That graph might be a rebuttal to something, but definitely not the bolded section.

If you look at this graph and the conclusion you come to is Bush was good for job growth and Obama was terrible for job growth... So therefor the housing crisis was made worse because we elected Obama... Then I think that says more about your own political agenda than the objective data presented in the graph.

     I suspect that who was President ultimately had little effect on the changes in numbers. The job numbers started improving dramatically in June 2009, earlier than Obama likely would have been able to effect any real change.

     Besides, the section you bolded is still correct, at least in terms of assessing relative unemployment numbers. They are higher now than they were under Bush, going off of that graph at least. The conclusion of CARL's post is the suspect part.

[CitizenX]

The problem with foreclosures has radically changed under Obama.

While the initial problem which began before the Obama was the result of bad loans, securitzation of said loans, etc., the problem since Obama has assumed office has changed due to increases in unemployment.

Loans which would have been 'good,' with the rates of unemployment we experienced under Bush went bad under Obama due to increased unemployment rates.

So, yes, Obama policies made things worse!

     Based on the lengths of those bars, it's pretty clear that there are fewer jobs as of this March than there were in January 2009. That graph might be a rebuttal to something, but definitely not the bolded section.

If you look at this graph and the conclusion you come to is Bush was good for job growth and Obama was terrible for job growth... So therefor the housing crisis was made worse because we elected Obama... Then I think that says more about your own political agenda than the objective data presented in the graph.

     I suspect that who was President ultimately had little effect on the changes in numbers. The job numbers started improving dramatically in June 2009, earlier than Obama likely would have been able to effect any real change.

     Besides, the section you bolded is still correct, at least in terms of assessing relative unemployment numbers. They are higher now than they were under Bush, going off of that graph at least. The conclusion of CARL's post is the suspect part.

My posts on here are rebutting Carl's ridiculous economic posts.  I don't blame W Bush for the housing collapse.  That would have happened regardless of who was in the White House.    I do put a chunk of the blame for the recession squarely on his shoulders though.  There would have been a recession regardless of who was in the White House but the fall out from the Iraq War certainly didn't help.  The unpaid for tax cuts also didn't help.

Barring huge fiscal policy changes such as an unpaid for war or massive tax cuts there is little a president can do to seriously augment the business cycle in the short term.

[CARLHAYDEN]

CitizenX,

First, rational people do not engage in all or nothing thinking   Certainly Bush deserves blame for policies (the bank bailout), but so does Obama for his policies (Porkulus, Obamacare, etc) which have also hurt the economy.

Second, policies implemented DO matter.  You seem to believe that no matter what policies Obama implemented he should be considered blameless.

Third, the unemployment rate has increased since Obama took office (including recently), and the percentage of the adult population employed has proportionately decreased.