Is being in favor of abortion bans libertarian?

[State Comptroller Atkins]

Discuss.

[angus]

It isn't necessary to the libertarian ideology.  The Libertarian Party says that it is the "only political organization which respects you as a unique and competent individual."  Moreover, in their platform they state that "Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on all sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration."  Harry Browne has written much about this.  So if by libertarian you mean United States-style capital-L Libertarian, then the answer is no.

On the other hand, you didn't capitalize libertarian, so we could take the broader view.  LIbertarianism generally espouses the ideology of free expression and liberty.  Usually when we say liberty we mean economic liberty, but would could consider the most fundamental form of liberty, that of being free to pursue our own paths.  If one's path is obstructed before it even begins by a stainless steel vacuum cleaner, then you could argue that this is something a small-l libertarian might find offensive, even to the point of wanting to prohibit it by law.  See, for example, the LIbertarians for Life website.

So I could go either way.  For the record, I know some libertarians who support unrestricted abortion access and others who are so ardently opposed to abortion that they support laws curtailing abortion access.  And I generally don't think it's a deal-killer in their nominating process the way the issue usually is for both Democrats and Republicans. 

[Communists For McCain]

It is really hard to say what the libertarian position on abortion really is.
There are some who view abortion bans as being intrusive on woman's body.
There are some who believe that abortion is the termination of human life.
There are some who lean towards legal abortion but believe it should be a state issue.
There are some who believe abortion is wrong (including myself) but believe that a nation wide ban would be disaster.
There are those who think that libertarianism is solely identified by someone being Pro-Life (Libertas).
There are those who think that libertarianism is solely identified by someone being Pro-Choice (the old and wise OP being one of them).

I would consider all but the last two to be arguably libertarian positions on abortion.

[Fmr. Emperor PiT]

It is really hard to say what the libertarian position on abortion really is.
There are some who view abortion bans as being intrusive on woman's body.
There are some who believe that abortion is the termination of human life.
There are some who lean towards legal abortion but believe it should be a state issue.
There are some who believe abortion is wrong (including myself) but believe that a nation wide ban would be disaster.
There are those who think that libertarianism is solely identified by someone being Pro-Life (Libertas).
There are those who think that libertarianism is solely identified by someone being Pro-Choice (the old and wise OP being one of them).

I would consider all but the last two to be arguably libertarian positions on abortion.

     This needed to be said. I consider the issue of abortion to be the greatest threat there is to the modern libertarian movement, for it is one that threatens to divide us & tear us asunder. I cannot consider anyone who makes it their raison d'etre an ally of libertarians, for that very reason. You might be the most libertarian person in the world, but if you aggressively push either side of the abortion issue, you are helping undermine your ideology by alienating individuals that you agree with on nearly every other issue.

[A cowboy always follows his beard]

There is no official libertarian stance on abortion.

[Senator Napoleon]

There is no official libertarian stance on abortion.

There is a logical one, however, if we use wikipedia's definition: Libertarianism is a political philosophy which upholds individual liberty, especially freedom of expression and action.

[IDS Judicial Overlord John Dibble]

There is no official libertarian stance on abortion.

There is a logical one, however, if we use wikipedia's definition: Libertarianism is a political philosophy which upholds individual liberty, especially freedom of expression and action.

Ultimately it depends on the person's views regarding the personhood of what's being aborted. Of course, if you think that the fetus in question is a person then I think any moral person regardless of political ideology would be against abortion.

[Yelnoc]

If one defines libertarianism like Wikipedia does, a political philosophy which upholds individual liberty, especially freedom of expression and action, the obvious answer is no.  Preventing a woman from having an abortion restricts said woman's freedom of action, thus going against the definition of Libertarianism. 

American Libertarianism, which has largely been co-opted into the Republican Economically Libertarian-Socially Conservative coalition, has naturally taken on some aspects of its coalition members.  Whether that is for the best is up to debate.

[IDS Judicial Overlord John Dibble]

If one defines libertarianism like Wikipedia does, a political philosophy which upholds individual liberty, especially freedom of expression and action, the obvious answer is no.  Preventing a woman from having an abortion restricts said woman's freedom of action, thus going against the definition of Libertarianism.

By that logic banning murder isn't libertarian because it restricts the actions of someone who wants to murder. Libertarian philosophy involves more than that one line and you know it - let's not be silly.

[dead0man]

Hey look, a thread about libertarians where non-libertarians make insanely false statements about libertarians.

The answer to the question is no.  Anybody that answers yes isn't a libertarian.

[IDS Judicial Overlord John Dibble]

The answer to the question is no.  Anybody that answers yes isn't a libertarian.

Again, I would have to disagree with that depending on the reasons for the no answer. If you view what's being aborted as a person, then it really is equivalent to murder - the temporary infringement on the woman's liberties is outweighed by what would be the permanent and total destruction on the liberties of the person being killed. (I personally don't view a fetus in all stages of development as a person, but that's another issue entirely)

[angus]

The answer to the question is no.  Anybody that answers yes isn't a libertarian.

Again, I would have to disagree with that depending on the reasons for the no answer. If you view what's being aborted as a person, then it really is equivalent to murder - the temporary infringement on the woman's liberties is outweighed by what would be the permanent and total destruction on the liberties of the person being killed. (I personally don't view a fetus in all stages of development as a person, but that's another issue entirely)

It's a paradox, isn't it?  You and I seem to be on the same frequency here.  Still, you have to admit that the Libertarian Party has an official position on the issue and states it clearly in their platform (item 1.4, independent clause in the middle of the sentence.)  That said, small-l libertarians who are naturally inclined to be supportive of abortion rights will naturally think that the the answer is no and those who, as you point out, view it as murder would likely vote yes.  Immovable object/irresistible force.  Can an omnipotent god make a stone so heavy that he can't lift it?  That sort of thing.  Good question I think.

[Diabolical Minds Think Alike]

I voted no. While I am a Pro-Choice Libertarian, I find myself to be oft conflicted about the issue.

[realisticidealist]

Where's the false dichotomy choice?

[dead0man]

The answer to the question is no.  Anybody that answers yes isn't a libertarian.

Again, I would have to disagree with that depending on the reasons for the no answer. If you view what's being aborted as a person, then it really is equivalent to murder - the temporary infringement on the woman's liberties is outweighed by what would be the permanent and total destruction on the liberties of the person being killed. (I personally don't view a fetus in all stages of development as a person, but that's another issue entirely)

Well, yeah, if the question was "are there any libertarians that think abortion is wrong?" then yeah, the answer would be yes.  But that's not the question that was asked.  One can certainly be libertarian and be against abortion (or for it).  There already is a term for somebody that is in favor of abortion bans and it's not libertarian.

...but we're arguing semantics here.  We can agree it's a bad question, no?

[IDS Judicial Overlord John Dibble]

...but we're arguing semantics here.  We can agree it's a bad question, no?

Not a bad question, just a false dichotomy on the poll answers.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Does being pro-life make you not a libertarian? No, if you don't consider abortion a freedom.
Does being pro-choice make you not a libertarian? No because any illiberal things associated with abortion aren't state actions unless you are talking about federal funding for abortion.
Is the pro-choice view on abortion a libertarian idea? Yes.
Is the pro-life view on abortion a libertarian idea? No.

[Brandon H]

As some people have said, it depends on if you believe the unborn child is a human life. I think everyone agrees that one cannot be a libertarian if they do not believe in the principle of non-aggression. If one believes the unborn child is human, than abortion is a form of aggression and is therefor a violation of the non-aggression principle. If one believes the unborn child is not human, then there is no form of aggression taking place.

[Californian Tony]

Does being pro-life make you not a libertarian? No, if you don't consider abortion a freedom.
Does being pro-choice make you not a libertarian? No because any illiberal things associated with abortion aren't state actions unless you are talking about federal funding for abortion.
Is the pro-choice view on abortion a libertarian idea? Yes.
Is the pro-life view on abortion a libertarian idea? No.

Couldn't agree more !

Because with this sentence you have made the entire libertarian ideology empty of any content. If there is no precise definition of freedom besides what someone consider to be a freedom ; and if libertarianism is defined as the ideology promoting freedom as the most important value ; then anyone can hold any political position and rightfully claim to be a libertarian.

For example, I believe in positive freedoms, in the freedom to access to a decent standard of living, in the freedom to enjoy free health care, in the freedom to be employed, etc... I however don't consider owning a gun, or not paying taxes, as a freedom. Therefore, I'm glad to announce that I am a libertarian !

[Fmr. Emperor PiT]

Does being pro-life make you not a libertarian? No, if you don't consider abortion a freedom.
Does being pro-choice make you not a libertarian? No because any illiberal things associated with abortion aren't state actions unless you are talking about federal funding for abortion.
Is the pro-choice view on abortion a libertarian idea? Yes.
Is the pro-life view on abortion a libertarian idea? No.

Couldn't agree more !

Because with this sentence you have made the entire libertarian ideology empty of any content. If there is no precise definition of freedom besides what someone consider to be a freedom ; and if libertarianism is defined as the ideology promoting freedom as the most important value ; then anyone can hold any political position and rightfully claim to be a libertarian.

For example, I believe in positive freedoms, in the freedom to access to a decent standard of living, in the freedom to enjoy free health care, in the freedom to be employed, etc... I however don't consider owning a gun, or not paying taxes, as a freedom. Therefore, I'm glad to announce that I am a libertarian !

     A fascist could claim to support protecting our "freedom from racial intermixing". Any position can be framed as being pro-freedom, though we've developed a general consensus on what positions are libertarian & what ones aren't. There are both libertarian & non-libertarian arguments for & against legalized abortion on demand.