Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
October 25, 2014, 06:14:51 am
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Atlas Hardware Upgrade complete October 13, 2013.

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  General Politics
| |-+  Economics (Moderator: ag)
| | |-+  Opinion of Distributism
« previous next »
Pages: [1] Print
Poll
Question: Opinion of Distributism
R-Freedom Economics   -6 (28.6%)
R-Horrible Economics   -2 (9.5%)
D-Freedom Economics   -4 (19%)
D-Horrible Economics   -2 (9.5%)
I-Freedom Economics   -4 (19%)
I-Horrible Economics   -3 (14.3%)
Show Pie Chart
Total Voters: 21

Author Topic: Opinion of Distributism  (Read 1225 times)
Xandal
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 69
View Profile
« on: April 20, 2011, 08:13:08 pm »
Ignore

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributism

wikipedia: "According to distributism, the ownership of the means of production should be spread as widely as possible among the general populace, rather than being centralized under the control of the state (state socialism) or a few large businesses or wealthy private individuals (plutarchic capitalism). A summary of distributism is found in Chesterton's statement: "Too much capitalism does not mean too many capitalists, but too few capitalists."[3]

Essentially, distributism distinguishes itself by its distribution of property (not to be confused with redistribution of capital that would be carried out by most socialist plans of governance). While socialism allows no individuals to own productive property (it all being under state, community, or workers' control), distributism itself seeks to ensure that most people will become owners of productive property. As Belloc stated, the distributive state (that is, the state which has implemented distributism) contains "an agglomeration of families of varying wealth, but by far the greater number of owners of the means of production."[4] This broader distribution does not extend to all property, but only to productive property; that is, that property which produces wealth, namely, the things needed for man to survive. It includes land, tools, etc"
Logged





     As a hardcore amoralist, I couldn't disagree more, even though I do find it disgusting. That much said, I had no clue what salad tossing was until just now, & I wish I didn't find out.
Xandal
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 69
View Profile
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2011, 08:14:00 pm »
Ignore

http://distributistreview.com/mag/




Both Capitalism and Socialism and Monopoly based systems. Distributism is the only true free market.
Logged





     As a hardcore amoralist, I couldn't disagree more, even though I do find it disgusting. That much said, I had no clue what salad tossing was until just now, & I wish I didn't find out.
wormyguy
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8582
Liechtenstein


Political Matrix
E: 4.52, S: -1.57

View Profile
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2011, 08:14:20 pm »
Ignore

On the right track, although smarter distributists realize that their system is best served by reducing the state, not increasing it.
Logged
patrick1
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 7651


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2011, 11:17:23 pm »
Ignore

The ChesterBelloc, huh?  It appears we may have a papist in our midst Wink.  It has been a while since Ive studied it in any detail, however, in theory I am favorably disposed to it. There is a questions of how such a system would be practicable on a large scale and could lead to a generally inefficient economy- (economies of scale?).  I'll stop there before I fully expose how much economics I have forgotten...
Logged
Gustaf
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 26906


Political Matrix
E: 0.39, S: -0.70

View Profile
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2011, 04:43:46 am »
Ignore

There are several problems with this. Two that jump out are a) the old Nozickian point of how to maintain any preferred distribution in a free market system and b) issues relating to corporate governance theory - strong owners are often needed in order for us to have successful companies.
Logged

This place really has become a cesspool of degenerate whores...

Economic score: +0.9
Social score: -2.61

In MN for fantasy stuff, member of the most recently dissolved centrist party.
President Mitt
Giovanni
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3647
Samoa


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2011, 06:31:14 am »
Ignore

It would have been great in the past. If Distributism was applied today though, there'd obviously be a lot of problems implementing it. The problem is that today's world is overpopulated for such a system, and to suddenly revert to such a system could result in mass-starvation. I do like that the system would be implemented from the the grassroots levels instead of Top-Down enforcement. I agree with Gustaf's point b also.
Logged

[This space is available for purchase]
opebo
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 47609


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2011, 09:46:09 am »
Ignore

I prefer socialism.
Logged

The essence of democracy at its purest is a lynch mob

Cincinnatus
JBach717
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4135
United States


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2011, 12:28:21 pm »
Ignore

"Distributists look favorably on credit unions as a preferable alternative to banks."

There we go.  A point I find myself completely agreeing with.

I prefer socialism.

I assume you favor state socialism?
Logged
MooMooMoo, Amith!
Angry_Weasel
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 12590
Antarctica


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2011, 06:14:53 pm »
Ignore

I'm guessing this is what Thomas Jefferson had in mind with his vision of an America by and for the "Yeoman Farmer". It's a great vision. The only real vision where both the welfare and general morality of society can properly be encouraged.

Its pretty simple why this isn't being done-

Without having Donald Trump, Paris Hilton or Barack Obama or some other alleged socialist or glorious fat ass  to control the purse, how will anyone raise the proper investing money for  anything to get done?

However, it is totally meaningless that we get to hear in the paper and TV about some girl buying a $100,000 fur coat or boob job or being proposed to with a $1,000,000 ring ...or some guy in a wig buying a $200,000,000 apartment or $20,000,000 ticket into outer space.

Why should we care? Why should society care? Why do we send so many kids out to die for their rights to do so? How does anyone else in the world benefit from that? Sure, you can say that those types of people write our paychecks, but many of us get our paychecks from selling $3 coffees and $1 burgers to eachother...maybe $10 pairs of pants...and here's the big lesson learned from the failure of Reaganomics-

Just because you encourage business doesn't mean that anyone will be encouraged to do business with you. Boss running out of money and wants to fire you to save what little he has left? The gipper has told us to either give him free money or let him keep more money of his own so that he will be able to afford to pay you. What does your boss do? He keeps the money and still fires you.

Then again, why should other people be forced to take care of other people who aren't able or given the chance to take care of themselves?  

Basically, what I am getting at is that the goals of creating wealth or "spreading" wealth are pretty pointless means in themselves.

What we need is a way for which wealth can be allowed to be generated and for a way for people to be given a reason to care about the above things. Distributionism seems to say "wealth is pointless unless there is broad access to it or real reason for us to care about it".  Although, like social credit, distributionism seems to be a conduit of social conservatism instead of economic populism.... i.e. more interested in protecting traditional ways of life instead of helping people live their own lives.

Then again, it might be time to give up on trying to regulate through a complicated tax code and just go back to old-fashioned regulation....and while we're at it, we must understand that private and public are seperate and its not the job for the Government to be Business's friend and not the job of Business to do what the Government should do. Let the Government do it's job and let Business do it's job.  So, that basically means that there shouldn't be anymore of this "privatization" crap or any of this  "public-private cooperation" crap.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2011, 06:29:28 pm by Director Avery Bullock »Logged


the result is a sense that we were told to attend a lavish dinner party that was going to be wonderful and by the time we got there, all the lobster and steak had been eaten, a fight had broken out, the police had been called and all that was left was warm beer and chips.
True Federalist
Ernest
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 28469
United States


View Profile WWW
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2011, 06:49:20 pm »
Ignore

The main problem with Distributism is that it fails to give any guidance for economies once economies of scale become feasible.  It harkens back to the days before the transportation and industrial revolutions made it possible to produce large quantities of goods efficiently and for people to get access to their portion of a large quantity efficiently.  It is not possible to efficiently produce artisanal smart-phones.
Logged

My ballot:
Ervin(I) Gov.
Sellers(D) Lt. Gov.
Hammond(R) Sec. of State
Diggs(D) Att. Gen.
Herbert(D) Comptroller Gen.
Spearman(R) Supt. of Education
DeFelice(American) Commissioner of Agriculture
Hutto(D/Working Families) US Sen (full)
Scott(R) US Sen (special)
Geddings(Labor) US House SC-2
Quinn(R) SC House District 69
TBD: Lex 1 School Board
Yes: Am. 1 (allow charity raffles)
No: Am. 2 (end election of the Adj. General)
No: Local Sales Tax
Yes: Temp Beer/Wine Permits
MooMooMoo, Amith!
Angry_Weasel
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 12590
Antarctica


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2011, 07:10:04 pm »
Ignore

...or it is easy enough to say  "how the hell do you raise a billion dollars to build a new car factory when no one can come up with any more than a few million dollars?"

...but still, that doesn't mean we have to suffer through monopolies and bloated bureaucracies that make you have pay 200 bucks for an iphone that costs a dollar to make when you are only give 16 bucks an hour to live off of when people who make 16 bucks a second pay less in taxes.
Logged


the result is a sense that we were told to attend a lavish dinner party that was going to be wonderful and by the time we got there, all the lobster and steak had been eaten, a fight had broken out, the police had been called and all that was left was warm beer and chips.
Salaz
Newbie
*
Posts: 19
View Profile
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2011, 01:18:33 am »
Ignore

This is a great interview on Distributism.

http://reasonradionetwork.com/20110525/the-stark-truth-interview-with-john-medaille
Logged
realisticidealist
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6654
Vatican City State


Political Matrix
E: -0.13, S: 4.52

View Profile
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2011, 02:15:11 am »
Ignore

I had the head of my girlfriend's brother's Newman Center try to push distributism on me the other day. It's rather awkward arguing against Chesterton with a fellow Catholic, especially as an econ student...
Logged

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return."
Governor TJ
TJ in Cleve
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4962
United States


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2011, 11:49:42 am »
Ignore

Distributism has always struck me as some sort of unattainable bound to strive toward within a capitalist system rather than a system that can actually be implemented because I don't see how you can chop up all the major corporations without the government doing it, but the government isn't supposed to run the economy so how can it? Also, what's to stop small business owners from driving each other out through competition so that one grows large at the expense of the others? How can we stop the principle of subsidiarity from dying when it isn't a self-sustaining principle? I'd love it if we could do it, but I would have no clue at how to go about implementing it. The problem is that distributism is an idea of social justice that requires individuals to support it by virtue, and not a economic system that relies on utilitarian decision-making to sustain itself. To implement or keep it would require some altruism.
Logged

Governor TJ
TJ in Cleve
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4962
United States


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2011, 11:51:19 am »
Ignore

I also find it interesting that the poll is currently pretty even across all parties and the Republicans right now are the most supportive.
Logged

asexual trans victimologist
Nathan
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 12655


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2011, 12:47:40 pm »
Ignore

Freedom Economics as the focal point of yearning or an ideal to be meliorated towards. Impossible Economics precisely because of that characteristic. Such is the world.
Logged

A shameless agrarian collectivist with no respect for private property or individual rights.

His idea of freedom is - it is a bad thing and should be stopped at all costs.

Nathan-land.  As much fun as watching paint dry... literally.
republicanism
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 417
Germany


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2011, 11:02:41 pm »
Ignore

The main problem with Distributism is that it fails to give any guidance for economies once economies of scale become feasible.  It harkens back to the days before the transportation and industrial revolutions made it possible to produce large quantities of goods efficiently and for people to get access to their portion of a large quantity efficiently.

That's the main problem, imho.

It reminds me of the propaganda of many conservatives in the 19th century, to save artisanry and small trade from being ruined by modern capitalism.

But you can never turn back in time, even though I also have a soft spot for small and pre-capitalist economy.  We have to get beyond capitalism, not to fall back behind him.
Logged

PM

Economic score: -6.32
Social score: -0.17



Pages: [1] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines