Another Abortion Question

[nclib]

I would say generally no [to paternal consent], though there is one case in which I think I would make an exception. If the father is willing to sign a document in which he would adopt the baby fully as his own, absolving the mother of all parental responsibilities whatsoever, then I would support requiring the woman to have the baby. She would have no financial or otherwise parental responsibility after the birth; as long as the father is willing to fully take care of the child, I do feel that he should have the right to have it. The mother, however, should not be forced into any financial responsibility if she wishes to have an abortion. However, it should have to be the father's responsibility to initiate any such action. The mother should not be required to have to find the father or get his consent specifically.

[nclib]

Oh, and I voted Option 2.

[TeePee4Prez]

Oh, and I voted Option 2.

As did I.

[Nym90]

Option 1. Duh. :-)

[Nym90]

As I said in the other thread, I believe in a compromise between the importance of bodily autonomy on the one hand, and the recognition that the father should have some rights, on the other. I don't think it's fair to the father to have a fetus that he conceived by consensual sex be killed if he is willing to provide for it. I wouldn't support this exception ever under cases of rape, and I also would put the burden on the father to find out about the potential abortion and make all legal arrangements on his end; no responsibility on the mother's end to notify the father. So she doesn't need consent, but the father can stop the abortion if he is willing to take the child free and clear, and it was conceived by consensual sex.

[Bono]

If you can get baby's consent, then we'll talk.

[qwerty]

Option one.

[dazzleman]

As I said in the other thread, I believe in a compromise between the importance of bodily autonomy on the one hand, and the recognition that the father should have some rights, on the other. I don't think it's fair to the father to have a fetus that he conceived by consensual sex be killed if he is willing to provide for it. I wouldn't support this exception ever under cases of rape, and I also would put the burden on the father to find out about the potential abortion and make all legal arrangements on his end; no responsibility on the mother's end to notify the father. So she doesn't need consent, but the father can stop the abortion if he is willing to take the child free and clear, and it was conceived by consensual sex.

This whole abortion problem is the worst result of people become pregnant outside of committed relationships.

I usually avoid the abortion topics, because I find it a very uncomfortable issue.  Generally, I don't believe in abortion.  I find the feminist argument, that's it's purely a woman's right, to be laughable.  I think that feminist arguments are a smokescreen for the usual far-left attitude that people should be able to do whatever they want and push the consequences onto another person.  And in this case, the baby who is being killed is the other person.

Having said that, I recognize that there are times when abortion may be the best of several bad options.  When babies are hopelessly deformed, or being born to people who don't want them and will abuse them, and other options are not readily available, it may be better than sentencing a child to a life of hell.  Sometimes, we are forced to play God, and it's very difficult and uncomfortable.

I don't think the issue belongs in the courts.  I think it was very shortsighted of the feminists to try to resolve it through the courts rather than the democratic process.  That's the reason they're still sweating bullets over every court appointment 32 years after their famed Roe vs. Wade ruling.  And we ought to keep them sweating.

Whatever the outcome, I think abortion should be frowned upon, and not regarded as an innocuous medical procedure.

Aside from the act of abortion itself, one of my biggest problems is with the feminazi position that:

1.  The woman has full rights over the baby, both before and after the baby is born.  The woman should be able to kill the baby without restriction, right up to the moment of birth, regardless of what the father wants, and she should be able to deny him any contact with the baby after he/she is born.

2. On the other hand, fathers should have full responsibility for supporting children whom they are not allowed to see, and in whose upbringing they have no say.  Fathers aren't even allowed a vote in whether their child lives or dies.

Of course, this would all be solved if people were more careful not to conceive children outside of loving committed relationships in which they agree on these important issues.  But given that that is out of the question for some people, we need to at least have some protection for fathers who are truly interested in raising their children.  They may be a minority in cases like these, but those who do care should not have to watch their children be killed or later abused by an uncaring mother who is asserting her "rights."  Nym90's idea is a step in that direction.

I would also like to put in a plug here for adoption.  My parents' best friends were unable to have children of their own and adopted four children back in the early 1960s.  Today, those children would most likely either have been aborted, or raised in an unsatisfactory manner by a single mother.  One of the children was considered "hard to place" because she was part Asian, and most people looking to adopt only wanted white babies.  But these adoptions turned out to be a great thing for both these children and the parents.  I think it's sad that we have thrown this possibility away, and chosen to kill unborn instead.  It's also sad that because society has become more tolerant of unwed motherhood, adoption has fallen into disfavor as young girls who are unsuitable parents keep their babies.  The whole attitude toward childbearing today is permeated around "rights" and complete selfishness.  Nobody even asks what's best for the child.  Sometimes, giving up your child to be raised by somebody more suitable is the greatest possible act of love.

When it comes to moral values, the most important thing is example, rather than what people say their beliefs are.  When I think of the abortion issue, I can't help but notice the stark difference between the bitter, hateful feminists, screaming about their "rights" and caring nothing about the consequences of their actions, and the example of those fine people who took in four children and made them truly their own kids.

[??????????]

Option 4. Infanticide is disgusting. I guess these pro choicers would have had one great time living in Nazi Germany, you know, everything they ever wanted out of a government. Religion Banned, baby murder, etc.

[dazzleman]

Option 4. Infanticide is disgusting. I guess these pro choicers would have had one great time living in Nazi Germany, you know, everything they ever wanted out of a government. Religion Banned, baby murder, etc.

The difference with Nazi Germany is that there, the government decided which babies got murdered.  Ethnic German babies with Aryan parents were highly prized and abortion of these babies was illegal.  Even unmarried women of the right ethnic background were encouraged to have babies for the good of the fatherland.  Others, of course, were subject to extermination, and not just babies.  But in reality, Nazi Germany strongly frowned on abortion of ethnic German babies.

[opebo]

#2 of course.  Anything else requires a level of interference with the individual, on an on-going basis for nine months, that is just intolerable. 

There's a big difference between just squirting some sperm someplace and actually carrying a pregnancy to term - a risky and permanently body-altering project.  The father shouldn't have any rights here.

[Tory]

Option 4 is ideal, but in a real world option 1 is a good idea.

[7,052,770]

I agree with option 1.
In fact, that's something Nym90 and I discussed way back in January when we decided to run together in fantasy elections.

[nclib]

Nobody even asks what's best for the child.  Sometimes, giving up your child to be raised by somebody more suitable is the greatest possible act of love.

Although I disagree about the issue of abortion, I do agree that once a child is born, regarding the issue of adoption, more emphasis should be placed upon which environment will be best for the child.

[Trilobyte]

Option 2. If the father is willing to take full responsibility, then that's something to be worked out privately with the mother. If the father is indeed sincere, chances are good that his wish would be granted.

[A18]

No, all abortion should be illegal