Osama bin Laden dead (Official)

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Well, if the country is ruled by a dictator, the country itself isn't going to ask for help.  That's where the gray zone is... when do we have a duty to help?  And what do we do to help?  Not everybody wants American Democracy, and we shouldn't force that on people who don't want it.

if they dont want it then they wont have a problem with how they are being ruled.

Don't want what?  American Democracy?  There's plenty of other styles of government besides how we do it here.

Dictatorships even work for some countries, but the problem with that is that you won't ALWAYS have a "good" dictator.

What i am more are less unsecessfully getting at is that despite how they are being ruled they can always ask us to help for a different kind of gov besides ours. Ours isnt even that great. If they wanted a communist government and asked our help for it then we should help them. And who they elect is up to them. We shouldn't kick out their choice and put in our to suit us like we have done so many times.

I understand what you're saying.  But you have to remember that many Iraqis hailed us as liberators in the beginning of the war, and we got rid of a man who was killing thousands.

No, very few did outside Kurdistan. Most Iraqis outside his tribe and government supporters liked Saddam, and many feared/loathed him. But don't let that confuse the difference between dislike or even hatred of Saddam and supporting a foreign non-Muslim army invading and occupying one's homeland. The two are not synonymous.

That's exactly my point--where do you say, "We should go in and help!"?  How many people in a country need to ask for help from the outside for it to be justified for us to go in?

[memphis]

F'ing love this!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9p4TCloFwJs&feature=related

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Having this photo on his FBI profile (http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/usama-bin-laden) is a relief:

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Hacks for what? They merely have a different opinion than you.

saying we have lost because we celebrate the death of and victory over enemies of freedom is a completely backward idea that belittles the harm done by these tyrants.

Jmcfst, please stop referring to Osama as a 'dictator'. The guy was a terrorist, that's something different. Some cynical part of me is thinking you're conciously calling him a dictator to imply that he was in any way a leading figure in the Muslim community. We both know intellectual dishonesty is far from being a no-go for you.

you might be quoting the wrong post, if not the wrong person

Jmf, just because the guy used a synonym is no reason to dismiss his criticism. Since Osama has never been a sovereign or held political power, he was never a tyrant, dictator, autocrat, despot, etc.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Jmf, just because the guy used a synonym is no reason to dismiss his criticism. Since Osama has never been a sovereign or held political power, he was never a tyrant, dictator, autocrat, despot, etc.

so, the phrase "tyranny of terrorism" is a misnomer? 

[J. J.]

I thought this is now appropriate, and somewhat prophetic:

http://www.hodain.net/amuse/diplomacy7x5.html

An oldie, but a goody.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Angela Merkel is now receiving some flak from her own party for publicly expressing "joy" over Bin Laden's death.  The criticism follows the line of the Vatican's recent statement: It's un-Christian to feel joy over the death of another person.

[Franzl]

Angela Merkel is now receiving some flak from her own party for publicly expressing "joy" over Bin Laden's death.  The criticism follows the line of the Vatican's recent statement: It's un-Christian to feel joy over the death of another person.

Sometimes I think they look for things to get upset about here.

[Joe Biden 2020]

Apparently, Shepard Smith on Faux News is calling the entire operation that killed Usama Bin Laden illegal.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/04/shep-smith-bin-laden-illegal_n_857356.html?ref=fb&src=sp

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Apparently, Shepard Smith on Faux News is calling the entire operation that killed Usama Bin Laden illegal.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/04/shep-smith-bin-laden-illegal_n_857356.html?ref=fb&src=sp

Even if it was, so what?

[Joe Biden 2020]

Apparently, Shepard Smith on Faux News is calling the entire operation that killed Usama Bin Laden illegal.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/04/shep-smith-bin-laden-illegal_n_857356.html?ref=fb&src=sp

Even if it was, so what?

I agree with you, Gramps, but I was just bringing up that Faux News is being douches again.

[angus]

Shepard Smith

He's grown on me.  I didn't like him at first.  Him or Cooper Anderson.   They represent a new type of reporter.  Touchy-feely.  Walking around in t-shirts and jeans in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina feigning empathy with the underclasses.  But that's what the public wants.  And FNC and CNN really have one goal, right?  They're businesses, and like any business, they want to profit.   I can respect that.  And if you watch these Shepard types they're not so bad, after all.  You almost believe they care about people.  Who needs objectivity?

Now, as for this clip, don't misrepresent him.  He merely asked Catherine Herridge whether any reporting is focusing on the fact that this operation was illegal.  He talked about competing narratives.  Here, he's playing the newsman's newsman.  Like Jim Pinkerton on Fox News Watch, sort of, but he's also talking about what officials are saying.  (Incidentally, Herridge took the interview in an interesting direction.  She said it was an excellent question, but she hadn't heard anything about that yet, then she segueways into how the terrorists, Muhammed, Patek, Osama, etc., were all hiding in or near major urban centers.  In plain sight.  So this is troubling.  It speaks to the real US-Pakistan relationship.  "It undercuts the narrative that Pakistan has been providing strong intelligence."  No kidding?  You almost want to laugh.  It's not exactly news to say that we shouldn't trust the Pakis.  No offense, but really, Obama knows all this.  And so it gets reported.)  But the legality question was perfectly legit.  Smith simply wanted to know about whether any officials or news reporters were doing that angle.  It was a good interview.  Not the touch-feely Shepard Smith you usually get.  Here, he was the hard-hitting reporter asking the good questions.

[bullmoose88]

"Osama's family gave me two rabbits as a present, says 12-year-old neighbour"

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23946299-osamas-family-gave-me-two-rabbits-as-a-present-says-12-year-old-neighbour.do


Question:  If this kid and presumably other locals knew OBL was there for half a decade...how long has the Pakistani government, or elements thereof, known about it?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Apparently, Shepard Smith on Faux News is calling the entire operation that killed Usama Bin Laden illegal.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/04/shep-smith-bin-laden-illegal_n_857356.html?ref=fb&src=sp

Technically, he's right.  It did break International Law.  But it needed to be done since Pakistan wasn't acting.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Apparently, Shepard Smith on Faux News is calling the entire operation that killed Usama Bin Laden illegal.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/04/shep-smith-bin-laden-illegal_n_857356.html?ref=fb&src=sp

Even if it was, so what?

I agree with you, Gramps, but I was just bringing up that Faux News is being douches again.

Oh come on, FOX wasn't even the first to bring this up, and they won't be the last.

[Joe Biden 2020]

Apparently, Shepard Smith on Faux News is calling the entire operation that killed Usama Bin Laden illegal.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/04/shep-smith-bin-laden-illegal_n_857356.html?ref=fb&src=sp

Even if it was, so what?

I agree with you, Gramps, but I was just bringing up that Faux News is being douches again.

Oh come on, FOX wasn't even the first to bring this up, and they won't be the last.

I know that, Inks.  What I'm trying to get at, is FOX will do or say anything to jump on any bandwagon that somehow discredits President Obama or the Democrats, even it's something they themselves would have done.

[bullmoose88]

Apparently, Shepard Smith on Faux News is calling the entire operation that killed Usama Bin Laden illegal.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/04/shep-smith-bin-laden-illegal_n_857356.html?ref=fb&src=sp

Even if it was, so what?

I agree with you, Gramps, but I was just bringing up that Faux News is being douches again.

Oh come on, FOX wasn't even the first to bring this up, and they won't be the last.

I know that, Inks.  What I'm trying to get at, is FOX will do or say anything to jump on any bandwagon that somehow discredits President Obama or the Democrats, even it's something they themselves would have done.

Since when did you use the word "douches"?  You're making the baby Jesus cry man.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Apparently, Shepard Smith on Faux News is calling the entire operation that killed Usama Bin Laden illegal.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/04/shep-smith-bin-laden-illegal_n_857356.html?ref=fb&src=sp

Even if it was, so what?

I agree with you, Gramps, but I was just bringing up that Faux News is being douches again.

Oh come on, FOX wasn't even the first to bring this up, and they won't be the last.

I know that, Inks.  What I'm trying to get at, is FOX will do or say anything to jump on any bandwagon that somehow discredits President Obama or the Democrats, even it's something they themselves would have done.

Did Shep say he wouldn't have done it?  I'm acknowledging that it may have broken International Law, but I'm saying, "Screw international law."  That doesn't change whether or not it's legal.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Jmf, just because the guy used a synonym is no reason to dismiss his criticism. Since Osama has never been a sovereign or held political power, he was never a tyrant, dictator, autocrat, despot, etc.

so, the phrase "tyranny of terrorism" is a misnomer? 

It is a metaphor, under which terror itself is the tyrant, not any particular terrorist.  I may be wrong, but I doubt Rumsfeld (the apparent originator of that particular phrase) ever called Osama a tyrant or dictator.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

so, the phrase "tyranny of terrorism" is a misnomer? 

It is a metaphor, under which terror itself is the tyrant, not any particular terrorist.  I may be wrong, but I doubt Rumsfeld (the apparent originator of that particular phrase) ever called Osama a tyrant or dictator.

if terrorism is a tyrant, and terrorism is just an extention of a terrorist, then doesn't it follow that the terrorists themselves are projecting their own form of tyranny?  or should I have just used the word "bully"?  (not arguing, just trying to learn some vocab)

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

FOX is reporting Obama is about to say the photos won't be released.  That's a HUGE mistake, in my opinion, because they'll get leaked eventually, and that just makes things worse for the U.S.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

FOX is reporting Obama is about to say the photos won't be released.  That's a HUGE mistake, in my opinion, because they'll get leaked eventually, and that just makes things worse for the U.S.

They'll be officially leaked, you mean, so why bother with an official release.  IMO.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/04/bin-laden-mission-risk-obama_n_857320.html?icid=maing-grid7|aim|dl1|sec1_lnk2|60407

Pretty interesting piece about how operation was a great gamble.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

FOX is reporting Obama is about to say the photos won't be released.

more PC on top of PC

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

and the GOP is in agreement with Obama on not releasing the pic.  wow, just wow. 

reminds me when Bush41 proposed and had the UN pass a window of 45 days (or was it 40 days) prior to launching the first Gulf War.  The reaction among Arab leaders was pretty much,"You're sending the exact wrong message to Saddam, for Arabs only respect the will to use force, and unilaterally giving him another 45 days will be perceived as weakness, thus making him less likely to climb down from his tree."

That is exactly what all this PC BS is doing - not only is it deceiving us, but it's telling the enemies of freedom that we are so weak and frightened, we are unwilling to even display the truth.

And I fault BOTH the GOP and the Dems.