Osama bin Laden dead (Official)

[Countess Anya of the North Parish]

I hate it. He is just horrible. He being obama.

[Countess Anya of the North Parish]

I hate it. He is just horrible. He being obama.

How so?

Well I really hate it when people use patriotism as a licsence to kill. Our people? you kidding me? The only thing that makes us american is us just saying we are. nothing else. I find is dishonest. It makes me want to vomit when he pulls a card like that. Be honest and keep the facts clean. And stop brainwashing us into thinking we are one when we dont even know half of the peopl living in america. yuck!

[Countess Anya of the North Parish]

I hate it. He is just horrible. He being obama.

How so?

Well I really hate it when people use patriotism as a licsence to kill. Our people? you kidding me? The onlt thing that makes us american is us just saying we are. nothing else. I find is dishonest. It makes me want to vomit when he pulls a card like that. Be honest and keep the facts clean. And stop brainwashing us into thinking we are one when we dont even know half of the peopl living in america. yuck!

What's the point of having a country then?  Or the point of unity?  Or of patriotism all in of itself?

there is a point. But it is merely to make social connections. But it should never be used to end someones life and to make to seem that is ok. That makes me mad. A life is a life, and to make us think that because we are 'americans' we have to right to kill someone despite what they have done, and are 'defending our people' is crap. There is no need to lie. If you are going to kill someone it should be because he has killed many people. Not because he killed americans. Had they not been americans obama would not give a sh**t.

[Countess Anya of the North Parish]

I hate it. He is just horrible. He being obama.

How so?

Well I really hate it when people use patriotism as a licence to kill. Our people? you kidding me? The only thing that makes us American is us just saying we are. nothing else. I find is dishonest. It makes me want to vomit when he pulls a card like that. Be honest and keep the facts clean. And stop brainwashing us into thinking we are one when we dont even know half of the people living in America. yuck!

What's the point of having a country then?  Or the point of unity?  Or of patriotism all in of itself?

there is a point. But it is merely to make social connections. But it should never be used to end someones life and to make to seem that is ok. That makes me mad. A life is a life, and to make us think that because we are 'Americans' we have to right to kill someone despite what they have done, and are 'defending our people' is crap. There is no need to lie. If you are going to kill someone it should be because he has killed many people. Not because he killed Americans. Had they not been Americans obama would not give a sh**t.

And which one do you think matters more to the Americans?  That he killed Americans or that he killed people?  As you said, we do not know half the country itself, but I think it is safe to say that more than half care about the death of Americans than the death of people as a whole.

I disagree. I care far more when patriotism is out of the question. Honestly, i care more about people dying period. Not Americans. And it is rather low to party over someone dying! no matter what it is just rude. If justice is served already there is not need to dance about in the streets. Partying makes the theory of justice just dissolve away. There is no justice. Man i despise people right now.

[Countess Anya of the North Parish]

I hate it. He is just horrible. He being obama.

How so?

Well I really hate it when people use patriotism as a licence to kill. Our people? you kidding me? The only thing that makes us American is us just saying we are. nothing else. I find is dishonest. It makes me want to vomit when he pulls a card like that. Be honest and keep the facts clean. And stop brainwashing us into thinking we are one when we dont even know half of the people living in America. yuck!

What's the point of having a country then?  Or the point of unity?  Or of patriotism all in of itself?

there is a point. But it is merely to make social connections. But it should never be used to end someones life and to make to seem that is ok. That makes me mad. A life is a life, and to make us think that because we are 'Americans' we have to right to kill someone despite what they have done, and are 'defending our people' is crap. There is no need to lie. If you are going to kill someone it should be because he has killed many people. Not because he killed Americans. Had they not been Americans obama would not give a sh**t.

And which one do you think matters more to the Americans?  That he killed Americans or that he killed people?  As you said, we do not know half the country itself, but I think it is safe to say that more than half care about the death of Americans than the death of people as a whole.

I disagree. I care far more when patriotism is out of the question. Honestly, i care more about people dying period. Not Americans. And it is rather low to party over someone dying! no matter what it is just rude. If justice is served already there is not need to dance about in the streets. Partying makes the theory of justice just dissolve away. There is no justice. Man i despise people right now.

As I said, more than half.  And the partying only proves that point.

You seem to misunderstand. I know that americans care about this. But i think they are simply ignorate pricks who lack the ability to see how they are being brainwashed by the government and their peers.

[Countess Anya of the North Parish]

I hate it. He is just horrible. He being obama.

How so?

Well I really hate it when people use patriotism as a licence to kill. Our people? you kidding me? The only thing that makes us American is us just saying we are. nothing else. I find is dishonest. It makes me want to vomit when he pulls a card like that. Be honest and keep the facts clean. And stop brainwashing us into thinking we are one when we dont even know half of the people living in America. yuck!

What's the point of having a country then?  Or the point of unity?  Or of patriotism all in of itself?

there is a point. But it is merely to make social connections. But it should never be used to end someones life and to make to seem that is ok. That makes me mad. A life is a life, and to make us think that because we are 'Americans' we have to right to kill someone despite what they have done, and are 'defending our people' is crap. There is no need to lie. If you are going to kill someone it should be because he has killed many people. Not because he killed Americans. Had they not been Americans obama would not give a sh**t.

And which one do you think matters more to the Americans?  That he killed Americans or that he killed people?  As you said, we do not know half the country itself, but I think it is safe to say that more than half care about the death of Americans than the death of people as a whole.

I disagree. I care far more when patriotism is out of the question. Honestly, i care more about people dying period. Not Americans. And it is rather low to party over someone dying! no matter what it is just rude. If justice is served already there is not need to dance about in the streets. Partying makes the theory of justice just dissolve away. There is no justice. Man i despise people right now.

I can appreciate where your coming from. I don't like to see people jubiliant over anyone's death, but really it is understandable, when you consider how he did set out to kill Americans, so Osama made himself the enemy of all Americans.  He has been the focus of people's hurt over the attacks on 9/11 and fears of another attack, so this feels like a relief, though I don't know how much it will make people safer. I do hope no innocent people died in the attack, but sadly it's likely someone did.

Well you see take out Americans and then I will take this as a matter for humanity. But as of the fact that you yourself are using americans as a group, as a whole, I shall not. And if you think that him dying will help us you are wrong! He has a man in charge incase anything happens to him. And this partying will only fuel that fire as well, thereby subjecting humans to more casualties when they attack again.  But no one thinks about that. No one sees how much more harm this partying is doing. And attacks will increase. They will probably go for DC now. And will most likely succeed.
And to be the enemy of all americans? rly? That is effed up. everyone around the world should be upset that this is happening period. Even people in china and India. But i presume that these attacks increased with us merely occupying them.

Badger:
Celebration my ass. I dont care if justice was served. When someone dies you simply don't party. Do you not know that this will add fuel to the fire? We are no where near done. Yes he should die, I agree with that seniment, but my reason differs from most people. If your reason is nationalistic I would disagree. If it is purely on the fact that he has killed someone then yes, we agree. But it is important to notice the difference between the two different reasons.

Then which one matters more to Americans through human psychology?  He presented it in the most sensitive way possible to the American people.  To many, the ends justify the means.  So he chose that path.

The fact of the matter is that there is no real person who is ignorant or is stupid or idiotic or daft.  These are just labels for the different ways people think.  If we start labeling them that way, then we give them the reprieve to label us in that way - and it opens up hell.  And that cycle is more vicious than anything.

Final vocab realy is a silly topic to talk about at the moment.

Can you do me a favor and stop saying american, it just makes me want to vomit. Because I can tell you that it has upset most of the world, not just americans. So can americans for once just stop talking about it from a nationalistic point of view if other can? Drop American and then I will most likely agree with you.

[Countess Anya of the North Parish]

I hate it. He is just horrible. He being obama.

How so?

Well I really hate it when people use patriotism as a licsence to kill. Our people? you kidding me? The onlt thing that makes us american is us just saying we are. nothing else. I find is dishonest. It makes me want to vomit when he pulls a card like that. Be honest and keep the facts clean. And stop brainwashing us into thinking we are one when we dont even know half of the peopl living in america. yuck!

What's the point of having a country then?  Or the point of unity?  Or of patriotism all in of itself?

there is a point. But it is merely to make social connections. But it should never be used to end someones life and to make to seem that is ok. That makes me mad. A life is a life, and to make us think that because we are 'americans' we have to right to kill someone despite what they have done, and are 'defending our people' is crap. There is no need to lie. If you are going to kill someone it should be because he has killed many people. Not because he killed americans. Had they not been americans obama would not give a sh**t.

So the President responding to Libya had nothing to do with his suggested motive?  As in, protecting civilians.  I think you're off and I generally don't agree with the President.

That is a valid point, but we did not do it purely out of the goodness of our heat. France and Britain dragged us in it.

I hate it. He is just horrible. He being obama.

How so?

Well I really hate it when people use patriotism as a licence to kill. Our people? you kidding me? The only thing that makes us American is us just saying we are. nothing else. I find is dishonest. It makes me want to vomit when he pulls a card like that. Be honest and keep the facts clean. And stop brainwashing us into thinking we are one when we dont even know half of the people living in America. yuck!

What's the point of having a country then?  Or the point of unity?  Or of patriotism all in of itself?

there is a point. But it is merely to make social connections. But it should never be used to end someones life and to make to seem that is ok. That makes me mad. A life is a life, and to make us think that because we are 'Americans' we have to right to kill someone despite what they have done, and are 'defending our people' is crap. There is no need to lie. If you are going to kill someone it should be because he has killed many people. Not because he killed Americans. Had they not been Americans obama would not give a sh**t.

And which one do you think matters more to the Americans?  That he killed Americans or that he killed people?  As you said, we do not know half the country itself, but I think it is safe to say that more than half care about the death of Americans than the death of people as a whole.

I disagree. I care far more when patriotism is out of the question. Honestly, i care more about people dying period. Not Americans. And it is rather low to party over someone dying! no matter what it is just rude. If justice is served already there is not need to dance about in the streets. Partying makes the theory of justice just dissolve away. There is no justice. Man i despise people right now.

I can appreciate where your coming from. I don't like to see people jubiliant over anyone's death, but really it is understandable, when you consider how he did set out to kill Americans, so Osama made himself the enemy of all Americans.  He has been the focus of people's hurt over the attacks on 9/11 and fears of another attack, so this feels like a relief, though I don't know how much it will make people safer. I do hope no innocent people died in the attack, but sadly it's likely someone did.

Then which one matters more to Americans through human psychology?  He presented it in the most sensitive way possible to the American people.  To many, the ends justify the means.  So he chose that path.

The fact of the matter is that there is no real person who is ignorant or is stupid or idiotic or daft.  These are just labels for the different ways people think.  If we start labeling them that way, then we give them the reprieve to label us in that way - and it opens up hell.  And that cycle is more vicious than anything.

Final vocab realy is a silly topic to talk about at the moment.

Can you do me a favor and stop saying american, it just makes me want to vomit. Because I can tell you that it has upset most of the world, not just americans. So can americans for once just stop talking about it from a nationalistic point of view if other can? Drop American and then I will most likely agree with you.

Are we not debating the way that Obama delivered that statement?  That he stated that it was a nationalistic thing and not an international thing? 

I agree that it is a horrible thing that people use patriotism to condone such acts, and as such, I actually do not believe that these criminals should be killed - they should be captured and shown the error of their ways.

But as I was saying, Obama is the leader of a country, not the World.  And he is in all technicality, addressing a country, not the world.  To use a non-nationalistic POV would be ridiculous to make his message, because as a head of state of a country addressing his people, a nationalistic POV is the one people want.

It is the way of countries to do so, as such, it is the way of their people to do so.

Obama is being watched. By everyone in the world tonight. There is no reason to make the focus americans. It should be people, humans who are innocent. So leader of a country I dont care about as a reason to use americans. you only do that if you want to get a mass of people to feel as one, and make it seem that they are the subject, when it is just humans. Despite the practice, I think that it could be changed to suit the globe. Not just a small secter. But oh well.

 I have to go to bed and can not have this calm debate anymore. So thanks for a fun evening.

[Countess Anya of the North Parish]

I hate it. He is just horrible. He being obama.

How so?

Well I really hate it when people use patriotism as a licence to kill. Our people? you kidding me? The only thing that makes us American is us just saying we are. nothing else. I find is dishonest. It makes me want to vomit when he pulls a card like that. Be honest and keep the facts clean. And stop brainwashing us into thinking we are one when we dont even know half of the people living in America. yuck!

What's the point of having a country then?  Or the point of unity?  Or of patriotism all in of itself?

there is a point. But it is merely to make social connections. But it should never be used to end someones life and to make to seem that is ok. That makes me mad. A life is a life, and to make us think that because we are 'Americans' we have to right to kill someone despite what they have done, and are 'defending our people' is crap. There is no need to lie. If you are going to kill someone it should be because he has killed many people. Not because he killed Americans. Had they not been Americans obama would not give a sh**t.

And which one do you think matters more to the Americans?  That he killed Americans or that he killed people?  As you said, we do not know half the country itself, but I think it is safe to say that more than half care about the death of Americans than the death of people as a whole.

I disagree. I care far more when patriotism is out of the question. Honestly, i care more about people dying period. Not Americans. And it is rather low to party over someone dying! no matter what it is just rude. If justice is served already there is not need to dance about in the streets. Partying makes the theory of justice just dissolve away. There is no justice. Man i despise people right now.

I can appreciate where your coming from. I don't like to see people jubiliant over anyone's death, but really it is understandable, when you consider how he did set out to kill Americans, so Osama made himself the enemy of all Americans.  He has been the focus of people's hurt over the attacks on 9/11 and fears of another attack, so this feels like a relief, though I don't know how much it will make people safer. I do hope no innocent people died in the attack, but sadly it's likely someone did.

Well you see take out Americans and then I will take this as a matter for humanity. But as of the fact that you yourself are using americans as a group, as a whole, I shall not. And if you think that him dying will help us you are wrong! He has a man in charge incase anything happens to him. And this partying will only fuel that fire as well, thereby subjecting humans to more casualties when they attack again.  But no one thinks about that. No one sees how much more harm this partying is doing. And attacks will increase. They will probably go for DC now. And will most likely succeed.
And to be the enemy of all americans? rly? That is effed up. everyone around the world should be upset that this is happening period. Even people in china and India. But i presume that these attacks increased with us merely occupying them.

Badger:
Celebration my ass. I dont care if justice was served. When someone dies you simply don't party. Do you not know that this will add fuel to the fire? We are no where near done. Yes he should die, I agree with that seniment, but my reason differs from most people. If your reason is nationalistic I would disagree. If it is purely on the fact that he has killed someone then yes, we agree. But it is important to notice the difference between the two different reasons.

Good morning, Anya. My reasons are a cross. Yes, I will proudly say that patriotism is a part of it, but at least or as much is simply the fact one of the greatest mass murderers in the last decade was killed. I would feel similar if he'd killed 3000 non-Americans. The fact he struck home though makes it all the stronger.

I don't deny my patriotism, and am proud of it. The difference is between a knee jerk "my country right or wrong" nationalism which I believe has led us to the worse moments in our history, vs. feeling pride in our country when it does something indeed celebration worthy like last night.

The fact that he struck your 'home' should not make it stronger.  Why should it? does terror and pain for others only go to a certain extent basided on distance? Do families suffer less based on how far they are off american land? To celebrate a death is just wrong. Yes, he deserved his ending. But no, you should not party in the streets like morons because Our country got him. Our country didn't get him. Certain people in the military got him, not out country. They just happen to have a liscense to kill with the flag on behind them.  To be happy one guy has paid for his crime is one thing. it binge drink to it like everything is good now is just rude. I know what you are saying I do. I get it I simply don't agree. Empathy for everyone should be the same for everyone around the world, not just at home. Space and time compression makes it far easier to do that. Yet, most people only care when it is here. I must say, I am very happy he is dead, despite him being quite handsome. But I am happy for a different reason. It has nothing to do with america. It has to do with people. A little change like that.  But since I can merely state myself over and over again for a little while before I grow tired, i suggest we just agree to disagree. Besides, I will be the only one in the class who isnt nationalistic today will will prnbably punch a guy who is a prick. So i have to go get ready for being suspended. Have a good day.

[Countess Anya of the North Parish]

I hate it. He is just horrible. He being obama.

How so?

Well I really hate it when people use patriotism as a licence to kill. Our people? you kidding me? The only thing that makes us American is us just saying we are. nothing else. I find is dishonest. It makes me want to vomit when he pulls a card like that. Be honest and keep the facts clean. And stop brainwashing us into thinking we are one when we dont even know half of the people living in America. yuck!

What's the point of having a country then?  Or the point of unity?  Or of patriotism all in of itself?

there is a point. But it is merely to make social connections. But it should never be used to end someones life and to make to seem that is ok. That makes me mad. A life is a life, and to make us think that because we are 'Americans' we have to right to kill someone despite what they have done, and are 'defending our people' is crap. There is no need to lie. If you are going to kill someone it should be because he has killed many people. Not because he killed Americans. Had they not been Americans obama would not give a sh**t.

And which one do you think matters more to the Americans?  That he killed Americans or that he killed people?  As you said, we do not know half the country itself, but I think it is safe to say that more than half care about the death of Americans than the death of people as a whole.

I disagree. I care far more when patriotism is out of the question. Honestly, i care more about people dying period. Not Americans. And it is rather low to party over someone dying! no matter what it is just rude. If justice is served already there is not need to dance about in the streets. Partying makes the theory of justice just dissolve away. There is no justice. Man i despise people right now.

I can appreciate where your coming from. I don't like to see people jubiliant over anyone's death, but really it is understandable, when you consider how he did set out to kill Americans, so Osama made himself the enemy of all Americans.  He has been the focus of people's hurt over the attacks on 9/11 and fears of another attack, so this feels like a relief, though I don't know how much it will make people safer. I do hope no innocent people died in the attack, but sadly it's likely someone did.

Well you see take out Americans and then I will take this as a matter for humanity. But as of the fact that you yourself are using americans as a group, as a whole, I shall not. And if you think that him dying will help us you are wrong! He has a man in charge incase anything happens to him. And this partying will only fuel that fire as well, thereby subjecting humans to more casualties when they attack again.  But no one thinks about that. No one sees how much more harm this partying is doing. And attacks will increase. They will probably go for DC now. And will most likely succeed.
And to be the enemy of all americans? rly? That is effed up. everyone around the world should be upset that this is happening period. Even people in china and India. But i presume that these attacks increased with us merely occupying them.

Badger:
Celebration my ass. I dont care if justice was served. When someone dies you simply don't party. Do you not know that this will add fuel to the fire? We are no where near done. Yes he should die, I agree with that seniment, but my reason differs from most people. If your reason is nationalistic I would disagree. If it is purely on the fact that he has killed someone then yes, we agree. But it is important to notice the difference between the two different reasons.

Good morning, Anya. My reasons are a cross. Yes, I will proudly say that patriotism is a part of it, but at least or as much is simply the fact one of the greatest mass murderers in the last decade was killed. I would feel similar if he'd killed 3000 non-Americans. The fact he struck home though makes it all the stronger.

I don't deny my patriotism, and am proud of it. The difference is between a knee jerk "my country right or wrong" nationalism which I believe has led us to the worse moments in our history, vs. feeling pride in our country when it does something indeed celebration worthy like last night.

The fact that he struck your 'home' should not make it stronger.  Why should it? does terror and pain for others only go to a certain extent basided on distance? Do families suffer less based on how far they are off american land? To celebrate a death is just wrong. Yes, he deserved his ending. But no, you should not party in the streets like morons because Our country got him. Our country didn't get him. Certain people in the military got him, not out country. They just happen to have a liscense to kill with the flag on behind them.  To be happy one guy has paid for his crime is one thing. it binge drink to it like everything is good now is just rude. I know what you are saying I do. I get it I simply don't agree. Empathy for everyone should be the same for everyone around the world, not just at home. Space and time compression makes it far easier to do that. Yet, most people only care when it is here. I must say, I am very happy he is dead, despite him being quite handsome. But I am happy for a different reason. It has nothing to do with america. It has to do with people. A little change like that.  But since I can merely state myself over and over again for a little while before I grow tired, i suggest we just agree to disagree. Besides, I will be the only one in the class who isnt nationalistic today will will prnbably punch a guy who is a prick. So i have to go get ready for being suspended. Have a good day.

Anya: Of course it makes it stronger and naturally so. There are many, many people who suffered far, FAR worse than me on that day by far. My memories of that day hit home nonetheless. I have a sister who worked in the Financial District. She was fine, but her stories of watching the Towers collapse from her window, and trying to calm a hysterical co-worker sobbing under her desk because her fiance worked at WTC--but survived, thank God--are harrowing. She lost her faith in God that day from the death she watched, and not sure if she ever recovered it. I had a long term girlfriend who worked for the government in Alexandria. I'd confused it with Arlington at the time, but that didn't make it any less harrowing a morning till we touched base. I have a father who at the time flew on USAir all the time out of Pittsburgh, and I didn't know for sometime where the plane in Shanksville, PA had flown out of---only that it was not too far out of Pgh International. Then there's the WTC: Beautiful---I'll never forget their view, or their majesty.

So yes, I didn't suffer directly the way many did, but it hurt---badly---and not just because I'm an American. Most of us wept over our grandparent's death, but do we weep equally for every grandparent we read about dying in the obits? Of course not, because the loss is more personal. The same applies here, even if I don't (fortunately) know anyone directly killed or injured in 9/11.

Try at least not to ruin your own day by getting suspended, eh? If you are so against violence being justified by nationalism, punching someone in the name of anti-nationalism hardly proves a point.

What is natural does not make it right. I get what you are saying. I am no Bin Laden sympathizer But if this happen in china my feelings about it should be just as strong. No matter where it has happened. There is no little piece of DNA that ties us all together stamping us americans. But there are stamping us human.  So it is rather silly to say that just because it is in america it is more personal. I just feel that weather it is an american or someone in china is doesnt change the level of wrongness. And it should not change the level of rage you have.  

true. I suppose I should simply just skip the class. far better for my fist to.

[Countess Anya of the North Parish]

is part of this thread debating whether it was right to kill Osama?! "Thou shall not kill [mass murderers]" type of stuff?

no. it is about the reason to reason him. He is to be killed. both sides agree on that. But we differ on the excuse used to have the right to kill him.

[Countess Anya of the North Parish]

is part of this thread debating whether it was right to kill Osama?! "Thou shall not kill [mass murderers]" type of stuff?

no. it is about the reason to reason him. He is to be killed. both sides agree on that. But we differ on the excuse used to have the right to kill him.

He was a mass murderer. He deserved to be captured or killed. It doesn't even matter who he murdered, whether they were Americans or not. He was a mass murderer, end of story.

see  i agree with that. but i dont agree with people only getting mad because he killed americans. Here the reason they are mad is because they hurt americans. not because he hurt people. notice the difference?

[Countess Anya of the North Parish]

see  i agree with that. but i dont agree with people only getting mad because he killed americans.

Excuse me, what? Bin Laden was a man responsible for death of people of very diffrent orgins, my countrymen and other Europeans (see London, Madrid for example) as well. Oh, not to mention Arabs, Afghans, Pakistanis etc. etc.

I think she's saying that Americans are only getting mad because he killed Americans.

Well, considering Osama's deadliest attack happened at U.S. soil and American people were the target, it's not suprising Americans hate him to this degree.

Yes, I agree. But everyone should be upset. And my point is if it was in japan americans should still be equally pissed off. Here in sf, the talk is that they f-cked with the wrong country.  And if he attacked japan  that they wouldnt care. This is what i am hearing in sf today. So I am simply saying that when you get mad you should take out nationalism and patriotism. That is all. Until then I wouldnt agree with how people are thinking.

[Countess Anya of the North Parish]

see  i agree with that. but i dont agree with people only getting mad because he killed americans.

Excuse me, what? Bin Laden was a man responsible for death of people of very diffrent orgins, my countrymen and other Europeans (see London, Madrid for example) as well. Oh, not to mention Arabs, Afghans, Pakistanis etc. etc.

I think she's saying that Americans are only getting mad because he killed Americans.

Well, considering Osama's deadliest attack happened at U.S. soil and American people were the target, it's not suprising Americans hate him to this degree.

Yes, I agree. But everyone should be upset. And my point is if it was in japan americans should still be equally pissed off. Here in sf, the talk is that they f-cked with the wrong country.  And if he attacked japan  that they wouldnt care. This is what i am hearing in sf today. So I am simply saying that when you get mad you should take out nationalism and patriotism. That is all. Until then I wouldnt agree with how people are thinking.

I think most Americans would care.  Now, if he had attacked only Japan, I'd personally care, but I wouldn't advocate us going into Pakistan to get him.

Well see, that is my point. You would care but no enough to do anything about it. But let it happen to america and you would be the first one to want to go get 'justice'.

Yes, I agree. But everyone should be upset. And my point is if it was in japan americans should still be equally pissed off. Here in sf, the talk is that they f-cked with the wrong country.  And if he attacked japan  that they wouldnt care. This is what i am hearing in sf today. So I am simply saying that when you get mad you should take out nationalism and patriotism. That is all. Until then I wouldnt agree with how people are thinking.

ummm, part of the US government's stated responsibility is to protest the safety of Americans against violence, both foreign and domestic.

Right and I am saying that I dont like that. Why cant the world jus protect eachother? It would be far better if there was teamwork. But really everyone only cares about their own nation more then others.

[Countess Anya of the North Parish]

We need like buttons. it would be so much easier then simply quoting and sayng, "this".

[Countess Anya of the North Parish]

see  i agree with that. but i dont agree with people only getting mad because he killed americans.

Excuse me, what? Bin Laden was a man responsible for death of people of very diffrent orgins, my countrymen and other Europeans (see London, Madrid for example) as well. Oh, not to mention Arabs, Afghans, Pakistanis etc. etc.

I think she's saying that Americans are only getting mad because he killed Americans.

Well, considering Osama's deadliest attack happened at U.S. soil and American people were the target, it's not suprising Americans hate him to this degree.

Yes, I agree. But everyone should be upset. And my point is if it was in japan americans should still be equally pissed off. Here in sf, the talk is that they f-cked with the wrong country.  And if he attacked japan  that they wouldnt care. This is what i am hearing in sf today. So I am simply saying that when you get mad you should take out nationalism and patriotism. That is all. Until then I wouldnt agree with how people are thinking.

I think most Americans would care.  Now, if he had attacked only Japan, I'd personally care, but I wouldn't advocate us going into Pakistan to get him.

Well see, that is my point. You would care but no enough to do anything about it. But let it happen to america and you would be the first one to want to go get 'justice'.

Without being attacked first of having the threat of attack, the U.S. wouldn't be internationally justified to do anything about it, at least not without international backing.

What is stopping us from getting it? we could at least try to get it. it is like, if you saw someone get mugged would you let them get mugged because it was not your place to help?

[Countess Anya of the North Parish]

see  i agree with that. but i dont agree with people only getting mad because he killed americans.

Excuse me, what? Bin Laden was a man responsible for death of people of very diffrent orgins, my countrymen and other Europeans (see London, Madrid for example) as well. Oh, not to mention Arabs, Afghans, Pakistanis etc. etc.

I think she's saying that Americans are only getting mad because he killed Americans.

Well, considering Osama's deadliest attack happened at U.S. soil and American people were the target, it's not suprising Americans hate him to this degree.

Yes, I agree. But everyone should be upset. And my point is if it was in japan americans should still be equally pissed off. Here in sf, the talk is that they f-cked with the wrong country.  And if he attacked japan  that they wouldnt care. This is what i am hearing in sf today. So I am simply saying that when you get mad you should take out nationalism and patriotism. That is all. Until then I wouldnt agree with how people are thinking.

I think most Americans would care.  Now, if he had attacked only Japan, I'd personally care, but I wouldn't advocate us going into Pakistan to get him.

Well see, that is my point. You would care but no enough to do anything about it. But let it happen to america and you would be the first one to want to go get 'justice'.

Without being attacked first of having the threat of attack, the U.S. wouldn't be internationally justified to do anything about it, at least not without international backing.

What is stopping us from getting it? we could at least try to get it. it is like, if you saw someone get mugged would you let them get mugged because it was not your place to help?

I'm not saying that's how it should be.  I'm saying that's how it is.  We got rid of a bad man in Iraq and the world DID NOT like that.  If the U.S. wants to be Superman for the world, that's an option.  But not everybody around the world likes us going into the Lybias, Iraqs, and the Serbias of the world.

well of course not. But you also have to see who is getting mad and who is benefitting from the situation as well. If a country asked us to help them, then we should. However we are digressing from the topic.

[Countess Anya of the North Parish]

Well, if the country is ruled by a dictator, the country itself isn't going to ask for help.  That's where the gray zone is... when do we have a duty to help?  And what do we do to help?  Not everybody wants American Democracy, and we shouldn't force that on people who don't want it.

if they dont want it then they wont have a problem with how they are being ruled.

[Countess Anya of the North Parish]

Well, if the country is ruled by a dictator, the country itself isn't going to ask for help.  That's where the gray zone is... when do we have a duty to help?  And what do we do to help?  Not everybody wants American Democracy, and we shouldn't force that on people who don't want it.

if they dont want it then they wont have a problem with how they are being ruled.

Don't want what?  American Democracy?  There's plenty of other styles of government besides how we do it here.

Dictatorships even work for some countries, but the problem with that is that you won't ALWAYS have a "good" dictator.

What i am more are less unsecessfully getting at is that despite how they are being ruled they can always ask us to help for a different kind of gov besides ours. Ours isnt even that great. If they wanted a communist government and asked our help for it then we should help them. And who they elect is up to them. We shouldn't kick out their choice and put in our to suit us like we have done so many times.