Freedom triumphs again in Florida!

[Landslide Lyndon]

Because nothing means freedom like preventing people from voting!

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/06/us/politics/06voting.html?_r=1&smid=tw-nytimespolitics&seid=auto

With an eye on next year’s presidential election, the Florida Legislature passed a bill on Thursday that would tighten the rules on third-party voter registration and limit the number of days early voting can take place, an effort that Democrats portrayed as blatant voter suppression.

...

“We have come a long way since the 2000 elections,” said Senator Miguel Diaz de la Portilla, a Miami Republican who sponsored the bill, referring to Florida’s central role in the disputed presidential tally. “This bill makes the process better, clearer, more transparent, more accessible. It enfranchises voters.”

But Democrats accused Republicans of trying to make it more difficult for voters — particularly Democrats — to cast their ballots and said the bill was unnecessary because reforms put in place after 2000 have largely been successful. Fraud, they said, is minimal: the Florida Department of State referred 31 cases of alleged voter fraud to the Department of Law Enforcement in the past three years.

United States Senator Bill Nelson, a Florida Democrat who opposes the bill, said Thursday in a letter to Mr. Scott that he planned to seek a Justice Department inquiry because major changes in election law in several counties require federal approval.

By requiring third-party groups to submit voter registration forms to the state within just 48 hours or risk fines, the bill would dampen the enthusiasm of volunteers, voter advocacy groups said. On Thursday, the president of the Florida League of Women Voters said her organization would most likely stop registering voters because she could not ask volunteers to assume that risk. “It’s a huge step backward for the state of Florida,” said Deirdre Macnab, the league’s president. “If these series of ideas become law it will be a vast new way to suppress voter registration and turnout just in time for the 2012 election.”

The legislation would also shorten the early voting period to 8 days from 14. Early voting would shut down three days before an election. In Florida, early voting has a decidedly Democratic tilt.

People who move from county to county — like college students — would also face greater difficulty voting. Today, registered voters can change their address at a polling station. The bill would disallow on-the-spot address changes, which are routinely checked through a database.

[Meeker]

When you can't win the minority vote your only option to is suppress it.

[Mechaman]

Oh fun, Florida joins Oklahoma as part of the Great Third Party Hater's Club.

[Franzl]

When you can't win the minority vote your only option to is suppress it.

Why would this effect minorities disproportionately?

[JewCon]

When you can't win the minority vote your only option to is suppress it.

When your a democrat and don't have legit facts to back you up you call republicans racist.


Gets 'em everytime.

[Smash255]

When you can't win the minority vote your only option to is suppress it.

When your a democrat and don't have legit facts to back you up you call republicans racist.


Gets 'em everytime.

If blacks in Florida did not make up a larger share of early voters compared to their share in the General Election, do you honestly think the GOP would be doing this?

[Franzl]

When you can't win the minority vote your only option to is suppress it.

When your a democrat and don't have legit facts to back you up you call republicans racist.


Gets 'em everytime.

If blacks in Florida did not make up a larger share of early voters compared to their share in the General Election, do you honestly think the GOP would be doing this?

No, and I don't support changing current election laws in Florida.....but I still don't see why blacks aren't just as capable as whites of going to vote on Election Day or during the somewhat shorter early voting period or requesting an absentee ballot.

Sure the motives are there. There are always motives. And that's true of most things either party suggests concerning the way elections are run.

Still don't see anything here that puts anybody at a legal disadvantage.

[Marokai Backbeat]

And trying to restrict student voting laws has nothing to do with going after Democratic voters.

And trying to restrict photo ID laws has nothing to do with restricting poor the poor vote.

And trying to restrict voter registration has nothing to do with trying to keep down the Democratic nature of first-time voters.

And trying to restrict the ability to vote for former criminals has nothing to dow with the fact that they vote mostly Democratic.

Franzl, I like you, but everytime there's an issue of Republicans trying to restrict Democracy, whether it be by voter registration laws or voting laws themselves, you respond with wide-eyed naivete about who it's actually affecting. Various measures are being taken in several states to try and suppress the Democratic vote.

Not everyone that votes is like you and me. We know election laws, we diligently participate in the process, we pay attention to the news on a very regular basis and pay attention to procedure to know what we have to do. Not everyone in the world is super-informed, especially in America. It's not about "well why can't these people just walk around with their birth certificate and passport on-hand to register to vote in Kansas, if that's what it takes!" It's not about "well why can't these people just show up and vote on election day like normal people, it's not hard!"

What people can or can't do and why they can or can't do them isn't the question, people don't. And that's what these laws are designed to do, to hold back people that simply didn't pay attention, or aren't obscenely prepared and knowledgeable. No one restriction Republicans have been proposing is going to do it all for them, each effort only holds back a small percentage in most cases. It takes alot of little efforts like this. One after another. A cocktail of anti-democratic measures to tilt the game in their favor.

Not everyone who votes obsessively prepares for doing so. Some people are incredibly poor. Some people don't pay as much attention. Some people are practically just kids. And whether or not you can understand why it holds people back from voting, it does. It just does.

[Franzl]

Good post, Marokai.

I don't disagree with most of what you wrote. Everything that parties do concerning election law is designed to better their chances of winning. I think that's pretty clear. Republicans are also undoubtedly better at the game.

I'm only disputing the supposedly racist nature of the proposed legislation. In fact. I think it's rather racist to assume that Blacks are too dumb to pay attention. Level of being informed, IMO, is much more a matter of class and education level than being a racial or ethnic minority.

[angus]

we diligently participate in the process, we pay attention to the news on a very regular basis and pay attention to procedure to know what we have to do.

Which is precisely why no one minds you voting.  Even if we don't vote the same way, I can assume you have bothered to at least have a basic idea of how things work, so I can rest somewhat assureed that you're not voting for a complete fraud. 

But if you're going to lie around, wallowing in illiteracy, and wait for some DNC operative to offer to buy you a carton of Marlboros or an eight-ball of meth in exchange for your vote, then many of us would rather you just stay home, thank you very much.

This is a reasonable law.

[Хahar 🤔]

But if you're going to lie around, wallowing in illiteracy, and wait for some DNC operative to offer to buy you a carton of Marlboros or an eight-ball of meth in exchange for your vote, then many of us would rather you just stay home, thank you very much.

I'm not sure if you're serious.

[angus]

But if you're going to lie around, wallowing in illiteracy, and wait for some DNC operative to offer to buy you a carton of Marlboros or an eight-ball of meth in exchange for your vote, then many of us would rather you just stay home, thank you very much.

I'm not sure if you're serious.

Neither am I.

But to be serious, one would have to post in a thread which had a more serious original post, wouldn't you think?

I'm all for discussing policy seriously.  I'm also for taking a big shit on an open toilet.

[Meeker]

When you can't win the minority vote your only option to is suppress it.

When your a democrat and don't have legit facts to back you up you call republicans racist.


Gets 'em everytime.

When your party stops acting like they don't want minorities participating in elections then I'll stop criticizing them for it.

[DrScholl]

When your a democrat and don't have legit facts to back you up you call republicans racist.


Gets 'em everytime.

It's actually "you're" and not "your". That aside, I don't think anyone needs to explain that Republicans want to restrict everyone who doesn't vote for them, they'll do it to white voters who don't vote Republican.

[Smash255]

Good post, Marokai.

I don't disagree with most of what you wrote. Everything that parties do concerning election law is designed to better their chances of winning. I think that's pretty clear. Republicans are also undoubtedly better at the game.

I'm only disputing the supposedly racist nature of the proposed legislation. In fact. I think it's rather racist to assume that Blacks are too dumb to pay attention. Level of being informed, IMO, is much more a matter of class and education level than being a racial or ethnic minority.

Part of it might go into education levels and income, quite simply those who are better educated tend to have more time to vote.  Many people, especially those who tend to be poorer likely don't know the take time off to work laws for example.

Anyway it might be more ideological based that also winds up being racially based, but fact of the matter is blacks in Florida tend to make up a much higher proportion of the early vote than the Election Day vote.

Now perhaps its targeted at Democrats in General, and its just a coincidence that blacks are impacted, but with that being said, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that if whites in the Panhandle were the highest turnout group during Early Voting instead of blacks, this legislation wouldn't exist.

[Brittain33]

No, and I don't support changing current election laws in Florida.....but I still don't see why blacks aren't just as capable as whites of going to vote on Election Day or during the somewhat shorter early voting period or requesting an absentee ballot.

Working in jobs, or taking care of kids, which doesn't allow for the free time that seniors have on a Tuesday.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

No, and I don't support changing current election laws in Florida.....but I still don't see why blacks aren't just as capable as whites of going to vote on Election Day or during the somewhat shorter early voting period or requesting an absentee ballot.

Working in jobs, or taking care of kids, which doesn't allow for the free time that seniors have on a Tuesday.

Wait, we did those things and never missed a vote.  Or are you being sarcastic?

[Insula Dei]

So, only the informed should be able to vote? What happened to DEMOCRACY and FREEDOM and OTHER BIG WORDS THAT ARE REALLY BETTER WHEN THEY'RE ABSTRACT?

[Brittain33]

No, and I don't support changing current election laws in Florida.....but I still don't see why blacks aren't just as capable as whites of going to vote on Election Day or during the somewhat shorter early voting period or requesting an absentee ballot.

Working in jobs, or taking care of kids, which doesn't allow for the free time that seniors have on a Tuesday.

Wait, we did those things and never missed a vote.  Or are you being sarcastic?

I work and have no trouble voting, but it varies a lot by what kind of job you do and where you live. Pennsylvania polls are open an hour later than those in Florida. Is it possible to imagine that some people work in lower-level jobs where transportation and child care make it hard to get to the polling booth? It's one reason states like KY and IN shut their voting down so early in the evening, and also why (for opposite reasons) Michigan unions make election day a holiday.

[krazen1211]

So, only the informed should be able to vote? What happened to DEMOCRACY and FREEDOM and OTHER BIG WORDS THAT ARE REALLY BETTER WHEN THEY'RE ABSTRACT?

Allowing people to vote themselves the treasury is a proven dangerous course.

[Holmes]

Well, that's a risk you have to take in a democracy, no?

[Brittain33]

Well, that's a risk you have to take in a democracy, no?

It's interesting how members of different parties draw difference conclusions from krazen's statement. For him, it's a sign that low-income people should be discouraged from voting through indirect means like this. For me, it points up how our defense budget has gotten enormous because contractors can "vote themselves the treasury" by making donations to politicians and providing lucrative second careers to them as lobbyists.

[they don't love you like i love you]

It's pretty silly to argue that these laws are aimed only to preventing fraud and the like and it's gotten to the point that some Republicans don't even bother to argue this (see krazen's post.) The way people like Franzl react completely miss the point, sure it'd probably be better if the US switched to a European-style system of universal registration and ID cards given out then, but where have the Republicans proposed this? It's quite obvious it's aimed at blocking people like minorities and college students from voting with this and things like abolishing same day registration as well.

If the Republicans really want to take the moral high ground, why not propose universal registration? But we know that's never going to happen.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

No, and I don't support changing current election laws in Florida.....but I still don't see why blacks aren't just as capable as whites of going to vote on Election Day or during the somewhat shorter early voting period or requesting an absentee ballot.

Working in jobs, or taking care of kids, which doesn't allow for the free time that seniors have on a Tuesday.

Wait, we did those things and never missed a vote.  Or are you being sarcastic?

I work and have no trouble voting, but it varies a lot by what kind of job you do and where you live. Pennsylvania polls are open an hour later than those in Florida. Is it possible to imagine that some people work in lower-level jobs where transportation and child care make it hard to get to the polling booth? It's one reason states like KY and IN shut their voting down so early in the evening, and also why (for opposite reasons) Michigan unions make election day a holiday.

Yeah I'm not opposed to moving it to a Saturday or whatever, and it was a pain in the ass to be there by 7AM sometimes......but it's more often than not doable.   

Now to argue against Saturdays, public transportation (assuming it's necessary to get to the polling place) runs on a reduced schedule, at least here, with some routes eliminated on the weekends. 

I don't think there's a solution that's a panacea.......but the absentee ballot option is available to all.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

Rick Scott needs to just be thrown in jail.