Clegg's Lords proposals are made of fail
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  Clegg's Lords proposals are made of fail
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Author Topic: Clegg's Lords proposals are made of fail  (Read 13235 times)
YL
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« Reply #50 on: August 06, 2012, 01:28:49 PM »

It seems a bit petty, but I think Clegg would have looked even worse if he'd continued waving through every Tory idea, and this was probably easier than anything else to link to Lords reform.

Anyway, the initial map drawn by the English Commission was so awful that I can't see the boundary review as any great loss.  And a small point: Clegg's constituency was made noticeably less safe by the provisional map.
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #51 on: August 06, 2012, 01:40:52 PM »

If Clegg had any grapefruits at all, he'd withdraw his support from the government before it's too late for them. If I was a LibDem MP, I would be pressuring him to end the coalition or risk getting kicked out the way he and others did to Charles Kennedy.
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YL
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« Reply #52 on: August 06, 2012, 01:49:10 PM »

Yes, but I'm taking it for granted that he's not going to bring the coalition down.
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Junior Chimp
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« Reply #53 on: August 06, 2012, 01:59:06 PM »

If Clegg had any grapefruits at all, he'd withdraw his support from the government before it's too late for them. If I was a LibDem MP, I would be pressuring him to end the coalition or risk getting kicked out the way he and others did to Charles Kennedy.

Don't take it for granted that there's a contingency of Liberals who're actually against the coalition. And even if there was, what kind've party would trigger an election which would see a near 13-14% swing against them?

Key lefties like Ming Campbell and Simon Hughes would be voting to end their careers.
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Junior Chimp
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« Reply #54 on: August 06, 2012, 03:48:11 PM »

Someone care to point out exactly where the Tories breached the agreement?
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Leftbehind
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« Reply #55 on: August 06, 2012, 04:06:24 PM »

It seems a bit petty, but I think Clegg would have looked even worse if he'd continued waving through every Tory idea, and this was probably easier than anything else to link to Lords reform.

Anyway, the initial map drawn by the English Commission was so awful that I can't see the boundary review as any great loss.  And a small point: Clegg's constituency was made noticeably less safe by the provisional map.

Yeah, completely agree. The phrase humiliation was popping up a lot when news of this first leaked, and quite rightly: he couldn't support the Tories' side of the bargain whilst watching his own withdrawn without losing yet more face, not after the AV loss (the HOL reform had a whiff of attempting to assuage the Lib Dem loss there).

Delighted we escape those awful proposals.
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doktorb
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« Reply #56 on: August 06, 2012, 05:31:03 PM »

House of Lords reform can wait.
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Junior Chimp
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« Reply #57 on: August 06, 2012, 05:37:00 PM »


Yup, already been waiting a century.
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Dereich
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« Reply #58 on: August 06, 2012, 05:50:44 PM »

Poor Clegg, he hasn't really had any choices whatsoever since the last election. Every move he makes drags him deeper into the hole he's digging for himself and his only real options are suicide for his party now or suicide for his party later. I'm surprised, at the beginning I guessed there would be more leftist Lib Dem rebels then rightist Tory ones.
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« Reply #59 on: August 07, 2012, 02:34:53 AM »

Is there any real reason to keep the House of Lords at all?

It's a British thing. You won't understand.

Most of us don't even understand.

That's why this is such a British thing Wink
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #60 on: August 07, 2012, 06:14:58 AM »

The man from Washington County is not entirely wrong, actually. The comparatively clever thing to do would have been to have at least threatened (in public) to end the coalition and maybe to bring down the government; it's true that a snap election would likely reduce the LibDems back to phone box status, but it would also likely see the defeat of the government generally and don't think that all those senior Tories would happily wave goodbye to their ministerial cars...
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Junior Chimp
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« Reply #61 on: August 07, 2012, 07:22:22 AM »

The man from Washington County is not entirely wrong, actually. The comparatively clever thing to do would have been to have at least threatened (in public) to end the coalition and maybe to bring down the government; it's true that a snap election would likely reduce the LibDems back to phone box status, but it would also likely see the defeat of the government generally and don't think that all those senior Tories would happily wave goodbye to their ministerial cars...

And the LibDems would?
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #62 on: August 07, 2012, 07:27:14 AM »

Obviously not. All I'm doing is pointing out that, actually, they do have a little bit of leverage over their senior partner. Or at least they would do if they weren't so utterly incompetent at this whole 'politics' lark.
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Rhodie
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« Reply #63 on: August 07, 2012, 07:35:48 AM »

Are the Liberals supposed to be centrist or centre-left?
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« Reply #64 on: August 07, 2012, 08:29:21 AM »

Are the Liberals supposed to be centrist or centre-left?

Where do we start?

On the record, raw votes in parliament and such things, it'd be incredibly difficult call them "centre-left" by any definition. There front benchers, by default, have nodded through every government policy once it got to a division.

I'd, personally, have a painful time calling them centrist.
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Junior Chimp
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« Reply #65 on: August 07, 2012, 08:33:13 AM »

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/aug/07/david-cameron-boundary-changes

Exactly, all this can't go on unless Dave's wanting to hit the eject button. If that's the case, he must genuinely think he can overcome a 10 point Labour lead on Ed Miliband's wonkishness alone despite being without any major (popular) policy achievements.
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Leftbehind
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« Reply #66 on: August 07, 2012, 09:32:34 AM »

The Tories need a 10.5% lead for an outright majority, on current boundaries. On average, they're 10% behind in polls. I can't really see how he'd get them passed without sizeable Liberal support, and yet I can see the desperation that'd lead them to press on regardless. Cheesy

Are the Liberals supposed to be centrist or centre-left?

Depends who you ask. Historically centrist, for me  - and centre-right these days.

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YL
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« Reply #67 on: August 07, 2012, 11:53:46 AM »

Are the Liberals supposed to be centrist or centre-left?

Both.  And centre-right too, e.g. David Laws.
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #68 on: August 07, 2012, 12:07:26 PM »

If Clegg had any grapefruits at all, he'd withdraw his support from the government before it's too late for them
...and resign from British politics and go raise sheep in New Zealand.
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Comrade Funk
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« Reply #69 on: August 07, 2012, 12:23:01 PM »

So, what are the chances UKIP overtake them in 2015? They really have become quite an embarassment.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #70 on: August 07, 2012, 12:45:21 PM »

So, what are the chances UKIP overtake them in 2015? They really have become quite an embarassment.

None. LibDem vote is concentrated, while UKIP vote is more evenly spread.
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #71 on: August 07, 2012, 12:47:17 PM »

So, what are the chances UKIP overtake them in 2015? They really have become quite an embarassment.

None. LibDem vote is concentrated, while UKIP vote is more evenly spread.
Well, chance of overtaking them in the popular vote?

It's possible, if the chickens really come home to roost.
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Rhodie
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« Reply #72 on: August 07, 2012, 01:54:56 PM »

If Clegg had any grapefruits at all, he'd withdraw his support from the government before it's too late for them
...and resign from British politics and go raise sheep in New Zealand.

No......no.....NOOOO!!!!!!!!
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #73 on: August 07, 2012, 01:56:46 PM »

If Clegg had any grapefruits at all, he'd withdraw his support from the government before it's too late for them
...and resign from British politics and go raise sheep in New Zealand.

No......no.....NOOOO!!!!!!!!
Chatham Island maybe?
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Rhodie
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« Reply #74 on: August 07, 2012, 02:01:00 PM »

If Clegg had any grapefruits at all, he'd withdraw his support from the government before it's too late for them
...and resign from British politics and go raise sheep in New Zealand.

No......no.....NOOOO!!!!!!!!
Chatham Island maybe?

I was thinking more the Pitcairn Islands Smiley

Seriously the guy sounds like a slippery, patronizing w****r.
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