Report: 58% of Americans have inflated egos, are simpletons

[phk]

In fairness, "trusting" one's own "judgment" on economic decisions  than the President's isn't the same as saying "I know more about economics" than the President. Again, the key words are "trust" and "judgment".

I have little doubt Milton Friedman has more knowledge about economics than I do, but I doubt his judgement on such matters as ultimately even an expert's views (perhaps even especially an expert's) are colored by fundimental value choices and personal priorities of what a "perfect" economy entails.

I may not know as much about economics as Friedman, but I know enough to hold greater trust in other equally erudite experts like Paul Krugman and Robert Reich.

I don't have any real issue with people with fundamentally different values trusting their own judgment more. However, at 58%, this includes people who voted for Obama (and so presumably are not too dissimiliar in values). Those people are the real "simpletons".

Who says all of Obama's voters voted for him because of economic issues?

[Nichlemn]

In fairness, "trusting" one's own "judgment" on economic decisions  than the President's isn't the same as saying "I know more about economics" than the President. Again, the key words are "trust" and "judgment".

I have little doubt Milton Friedman has more knowledge about economics than I do, but I doubt his judgement on such matters as ultimately even an expert's views (perhaps even especially an expert's) are colored by fundimental value choices and personal priorities of what a "perfect" economy entails.

I may not know as much about economics as Friedman, but I know enough to hold greater trust in other equally erudite experts like Paul Krugman and Robert Reich.

I don't have any real issue with people with fundamentally different values trusting their own judgment more. However, at 58%, this includes people who voted for Obama (and so presumably are not too dissimiliar in values). Those people are the real "simpletons".

Who says all of Obama's voters voted for him because of economic issues?

To be sure, some didn't. I doubt many were wildly different in economic philosophy (like Austrian/Keynesian gap, not the 1% difference between "socialism" and "slash and burn"). Even if we grant there were a few, there were surely a few McCain voters on the other side. My point is more that there's no way 58% of Americans are very different in economic philosophy to Obama.

[phk]

In fairness, "trusting" one's own "judgment" on economic decisions  than the President's isn't the same as saying "I know more about economics" than the President. Again, the key words are "trust" and "judgment".

I have little doubt Milton Friedman has more knowledge about economics than I do, but I doubt his judgement on such matters as ultimately even an expert's views (perhaps even especially an expert's) are colored by fundimental value choices and personal priorities of what a "perfect" economy entails.

I may not know as much about economics as Friedman, but I know enough to hold greater trust in other equally erudite experts like Paul Krugman and Robert Reich.

I don't have any real issue with people with fundamentally different values trusting their own judgment more. However, at 58%, this includes people who voted for Obama (and so presumably are not too dissimiliar in values). Those people are the real "simpletons".

Who says all of Obama's voters voted for him because of economic issues?

To be sure, some didn't. I doubt many were wildly different in economic philosophy (like Austrian/Keynesian gap, not the 1% difference between "socialism" and "slash and burn"). Even if we grant there were a few, there were surely a few McCain voters on the other side. My point is more that there's no way 58% of Americans are very different in economic philosophy to Obama.

I don't think most voters have too coherent of a philosophy on either side to even figure out where they lie on the Austrian-Keynesian continuum.

[Nichlemn]

In fairness, "trusting" one's own "judgment" on economic decisions  than the President's isn't the same as saying "I know more about economics" than the President. Again, the key words are "trust" and "judgment".

I have little doubt Milton Friedman has more knowledge about economics than I do, but I doubt his judgement on such matters as ultimately even an expert's views (perhaps even especially an expert's) are colored by fundimental value choices and personal priorities of what a "perfect" economy entails.

I may not know as much about economics as Friedman, but I know enough to hold greater trust in other equally erudite experts like Paul Krugman and Robert Reich.

I don't have any real issue with people with fundamentally different values trusting their own judgment more. However, at 58%, this includes people who voted for Obama (and so presumably are not too dissimiliar in values). Those people are the real "simpletons".

Who says all of Obama's voters voted for him because of economic issues?

To be sure, some didn't. I doubt many were wildly different in economic philosophy (like Austrian/Keynesian gap, not the 1% difference between "socialism" and "slash and burn"). Even if we grant there were a few, there were surely a few McCain voters on the other side. My point is more that there's no way 58% of Americans are very different in economic philosophy to Obama.

I don't think most voters have too coherent of a philosophy on either side to even figure out where they lie on the Austrian-Keynesian continuum.

That is true. But those who have something vaguely similar to an Austrian outlook would have been very unlikely to vote for Obama. The ones without any coherent philosophy at all can't have their selections attributed to ideological bias.

[Cincinnatus]

Do I trust my own judgment on the economy more than Leonid Brezhnev?  Of course I do, even though Leonid was no doubt surrounded by top economists who had spent their entire lives studying the economy.

     I am suspicious of the notion that Brzehnev was surrounded by top economists. Recall that many academic disciplines in the USSR were bad jokes; just look at Lysenkoism. It is obvious that Soviet economists were forced to trot out pieces supporting the Marxist-Leninist line. If you want to write something that will support the official party line, then your research will inevitably be weaker since you would be drawing conclusions & then conducting the experiment, which is reversed from the proper process.

And all of Obama's economists are trotting out pieces supporting the official party line (one of his economists, whose name escapes me, wrote a piece a while ago in which she provided evidence that the New Deal had little effect on the Great Depression.  In the Obama admin she dutifully recycled all the "multiplier" gibberish).  Your point exactly?

This

Presidents will have top economists in the sense that, they're the best that agree with the Presidents views.  I can't see major arguing about economic policy between the economists the President talks to.  They're more of a tool to provide facts, figures, and strategy, on how to promote the way a President thinks

[angus]

I would suggest that the fact that 42% trust Obama over them on the economy is merely an indicator of a dangerous faith in the President rather than any actual humbleness for most of them.

excluded middle fallacy?  Unlike you.  Maybe you have not had your coffee this morning.  Anyway, only 30% trust Obama more than themselves.  12% say that they are unsure/don't know/don't care.

Also, you have to be careful in interpreting these data.  Look at the wording of the question:

"Whose judgment do you trust more when it comes to economic issues affecting the nation – yourself or President Obama?"

Really, I trust my own judgment more. Don't get me wrong, I trust Obama's judgment generally, but I'm not sold to lobbyists and campaign financiers.  I don't have to worry about political correctness and re-election campaigns.  I'd say that Obama has more information than I about the economy.  And, in a vacuum, I'd say that this gives him greater education about such issues than I.  But we're not in a vacuum.  His judgment about anything is tempered by the fact that he's a politician.  And a skilled one, at that.

[Associate Justice PiT]

I would suggest that the fact that 42% trust Obama over them on the economy is merely an indicator of a dangerous faith in the President rather than any actual humbleness for most of them.

excluded middle fallacy?  Unlike you.  Maybe you have not had your coffee this morning.  Anyway, only 30% trust Obama more than themselves.  12% say that they are unsure/don't know/don't care.

Also, you have to be careful in interpreting these data.  Look at the wording of the question:

"Whose judgment do you trust more when it comes to economic issues affecting the nation – yourself or President Obama?"

Really, I trust my own judgment more. Don't get me wrong, I trust Obama's judgment generally, but I'm not sold to lobbyists and campaign financiers.  I don't have to worry about political correctness and re-election campaigns.  I'd say that Obama has more information than I about the economy.  And, in a vacuum, I'd say that this gives him greater education about such issues than I.  But we're not in a vacuum.  His judgment about anything is tempered by the fact that he's a politician.  And a skilled one, at that.

     How is that an excluded middle fallacy? I attributed that view to most of the 42% that answered in favor of Obama's judgment. I'll freely admit that there are people who recognize that they know little or nothing about economics & will defer to somebody, anybody who knows more than them, as well as people who know a great deal & can convincingly claim to trust their own opinions over all others, & probably myriad other options as well. However, I suspect that most people fall into the categories of mistakenly believing that they have the knowledge need to formulate worthwhile opinions on the subject or will sheepishly support the head of state on whatever. I have a very negative opinion of American voters, so I tend to assume the worst about them.

     Personally, I am highly reticent to trust the judgment of anybody other than myself, because I expect that they will act in their best interests, whether or not I would consider that desirable. That sort of thing gets into your comment about his judgment being tempered by his status as a politician, but it applies just as strongly to the average person, who wants all of the entitlement programs that they benefit from to remain intact perpetually.

     I am also reticent to trust my own judgment on the economy, because I do not consider myself educated on such matters, nor do I consider an education on such matters valuable. I've always gotten the impression that most people just use economics to affirm their own prejudices in regards to economic policy. I won't pretend that I am unopinionated, but I don't claim to have the singular answer. I consider politics to be, at its best, a grand exercise in statistical analysis. The highly opinionated folks are, at their best, an amusing sideshow.