May 2011 Foreign Policy Review Senate Debate and Approval (Passed)
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  May 2011 Foreign Policy Review Senate Debate and Approval (Passed)
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Author Topic: May 2011 Foreign Policy Review Senate Debate and Approval (Passed)  (Read 3848 times)
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shua
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« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2011, 06:41:14 PM »

I'm working on at least one amendment.
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shua
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« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2011, 09:52:56 PM »

I propose amending the following countries as follows:

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Kalwejt
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« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2011, 07:58:16 AM »

Some of my concerns:

Swaziland: Full economic restrictions have a dreadful effect upon literally dying population. That actually applies to many African countries.

Liechtenstein: A centre of corruption and money laundering. Economic restrictions should be applied. Don't worry, people won't starve here Tongue

Bahrain: I advocate full military restrictions. What the hell, we are almost at war with Libya but we toy a regime, that crushed democratic protesters with Saudi tanks? WTF?!
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Kaine for Senate '18
benconstine
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« Reply #28 on: June 01, 2011, 08:30:34 AM »

I have no problem with Senator Shua's amendments, and would like to see them implemented.  Regarding Swaziland - the sanctions in place there only impact the King; they do not impact the people.  The nature of the Swaziland regime makes that the case.  Finally, Bahrain is a major ally in fighting terrorism in the Middle East.  I do not disagree that their recent behavior has been odious, but putting full military sanctions is not the proper course of action at this time.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2011, 08:36:51 AM »

I have no problem with Senator Shua's amendments, and would like to see them implemented.  Regarding Swaziland - the sanctions in place there only impact the King; they do not impact the people.  The nature of the Swaziland regime makes that the case.  Finally, Bahrain is a major ally in fighting terrorism in the Middle East.  I do not disagree that their recent behavior has been odious, but putting full military sanctions is not the proper course of action at this time.

Ah, "son of a bitch but OUR son of a bitch".

I supouse you wouldn't have any problems with Gaddafi, if he only were major Atlasia ally, right?
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Kaine for Senate '18
benconstine
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« Reply #30 on: June 01, 2011, 08:47:45 AM »

You're missing my point, Senator.  I abhor what the King of Bahrain is doing.  I am arguing, however, that full military sanctions would be counterproductive.
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shua
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« Reply #31 on: June 01, 2011, 08:01:42 PM »


I have no problem with Senator Shua's amendments, and would like to see them implemented.
thank you.
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how so?

also, I think it's great that we recognize Somaliland, but what we hope to accomplish with sanctions against the struggling government of Somalia?
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Kaine for Senate '18
benconstine
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« Reply #32 on: June 01, 2011, 08:51:00 PM »

When it comes to Swaziland, most of the money there flows through the King and his friends.  Sanctions would thus ultimately have the result of depriving the King of more money.  Regarding Somalia, it is basically to prevent the Government from having weapons and/or money that could fall into the hands of pirates, terrorists, etc.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #33 on: June 02, 2011, 01:06:25 AM »

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Senators have 24 hours to object to the amendment 13.
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🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸
shua
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« Reply #34 on: June 02, 2011, 08:38:33 PM »

When it comes to Swaziland, most of the money there flows through the King and his friends.  Sanctions would thus ultimately have the result of depriving the King of more money.  Regarding Somalia, it is basically to prevent the Government from having weapons and/or money that could fall into the hands of pirates, terrorists, etc.

Somali pirates bring economic goods and activity to the impoverished Somali people, and thus they gain their approval. More legitimate venues of economic activity there are what is needed, not less.

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benconstine
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« Reply #35 on: June 02, 2011, 09:02:52 PM »

And what about terrorists?  Let's not pretend that Al-Shabaab isn't just dying to get a hold of money and goods sent to Somalia.  I really see this as a preventative measure.
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🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸
shua
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« Reply #36 on: June 02, 2011, 09:48:34 PM »

And what about terrorists?  Let's not pretend that Al-Shabaab isn't just dying to get a hold of money and goods sent to Somalia.  I really see this as a preventative measure.

We should support through trade the efforts of Puntland and the other regions outside Al-Shabaab control.  The more we cut them off, the less they will be able to withstand encroachments by the terrorist forces.
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🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸
shua
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« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2011, 10:16:04 AM »

How about those former soviet republics with full economic sanctions - is there a way to make those more targeted?   Let's not give away all our leverage short of war.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #38 on: June 04, 2011, 06:38:50 PM »

The amendment has passed.
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Kaine for Senate '18
benconstine
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« Reply #39 on: June 07, 2011, 09:58:42 PM »

How about those former soviet republics with full economic sanctions - is there a way to make those more targeted?   Let's not give away all our leverage short of war.

The only way I can think of is through specific, country by country legislation.
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🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸
shua
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« Reply #40 on: June 07, 2011, 11:30:32 PM »

How about those former soviet republics with full economic sanctions - is there a way to make those more targeted?   Let's not give away all our leverage short of war.

The only way I can think of is through specific, country by country legislation.

If we can make the economic restrictions more limited and specific, I don't see why we couldn't just change that under each country in this policy review.  Why is it that full restrictions are considered necessary - what is our objective?
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Kaine for Senate '18
benconstine
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« Reply #41 on: June 10, 2011, 04:28:28 PM »

If we can make the economic restrictions more limited and specific, I don't see why we couldn't just change that under each country in this policy review.  Why is it that full restrictions are considered necessary - what is our objective?

I'm not sure we can include very specific restrictions, nor do I think it wise.  Specifics should be made individually.  My goal is to weaken the dictators by cutting off their cash and gun supplies.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #42 on: June 10, 2011, 05:24:57 PM »

If we can make the economic restrictions more limited and specific, I don't see why we couldn't just change that under each country in this policy review.  Why is it that full restrictions are considered necessary - what is our objective?

I'm not sure we can include very specific restrictions, nor do I think it wise.  Specifics should be made individually.  My goal is to weaken the dictators by cutting off their cash and gun supplies.

But only dictators who are not our friends!
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #43 on: June 10, 2011, 06:45:39 PM »

So what now folks?
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🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸
shua
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« Reply #44 on: June 11, 2011, 07:17:16 PM »

While I appreciate the Secretary's work on this review, we have too many countries here with full economic restrictions, and unless they are narrowed in scope, I cannot vote in favor of this.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #45 on: June 11, 2011, 07:34:29 PM »

I'll vote nay.
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Kaine for Senate '18
benconstine
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« Reply #46 on: June 11, 2011, 08:11:32 PM »

If you have concerns, Senators, introduce Amendments.  Don't scrap the whole FPR.
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🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸
shua
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« Reply #47 on: June 14, 2011, 08:05:16 PM »

I'm considering if it makes sense to amend any countries to partial rather than full restrictions, but not sure what the extent of them would be in practice if not specified.
I'm not clear on what this is referring to:
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #48 on: June 16, 2011, 07:35:47 PM »

Could the SoEA please respond to the question of the honerable Senator. Don't make me PM you! Wink
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Kaine for Senate '18
benconstine
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« Reply #49 on: June 16, 2011, 11:31:34 PM »

Sorry guys; I'm in Dallas and my Internet is limited.

I'm nit sure what the term means.  I would expect it to be the opposite.  One solution is to do what we do with Cuba: mention in the FPR that there is separate legislation?
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