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|-+  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion
| |-+  Election What-ifs? (Moderator: Apocrypha)
| | |-+  A Line in the Sand: A Highly Unrealistic Thought Experiment
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Author Topic: A Line in the Sand: A Highly Unrealistic Thought Experiment  (Read 661 times)
LLR
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« on: November 11, 2016, 08:58:27 pm »
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"The POD here is that at some point in the early 18th century, Britain decides to divide their American colonies into north and south. While they happily unify for the War of Independence, they decide to mutually part ways when it came time to declare independence. The nations were on good terms - very good terms, in fact - but their culture was different."


Index

1. United States of America - Info

2. Confederate Republic of America - Info

3. Elections  in Both Countries - Info
« Last Edit: November 12, 2016, 10:05:40 am by LLR »Logged

GoTfan
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« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2016, 02:07:57 am »
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This seems very interesting. Do continue!
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« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2016, 03:00:14 am »
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I'm also interested. Especially in what might happen foreign wise, maybe the various Europe powers try to pick sides, maybe Britain becomes more aggressive knowing that the colonies have split into two nations.
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« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2016, 05:27:08 am »
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Wow, Vermont going it alone. That'll be interesting.
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LLR
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« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2016, 08:48:12 am »
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Wow, Vermont going it alone. That'll be interesting.

No, Vermont just wasn't granted statehood and was still counted as part of New York at the time



I'm also interested. Especially in what might happen foreign wise, maybe the various Europe powers try to pick sides, maybe Britain becomes more aggressive knowing that the colonies have split into two nations.

Well, it was Britain's decision in the first place, mostly.



Next update coming in the next few hours
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LLR
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« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2016, 09:34:01 am »
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The POD here is that at some point in the early 18th century, Britain decides to divide their American colonies into north and south. While they happily unify for the War of Independence, they decide to mutually part ways when it came time to declare independence. The nations were on good terms - very good terms, in fact - but their culture was different.

System of Government - United States of America (Northern Colonies)

This TL's USA has basically the same government as OTL USA - a bicameral legislature with the House determined proportionally and the Senate divided equally. The president had a lot of power, and was elected through an "Electoral College." Each state set their own government, many of which elected a governor and a small unicameral or bicameral legislature.

The United States of America



National Information:

Capital: New York, New York
Population: 1,968,000
Shorthand name: United States
Demonym: American/Northerner

« Last Edit: November 12, 2016, 09:41:15 am by LLR »Logged

LLR
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« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2016, 09:41:44 am »
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The Confederate Republic of America (Southern Colonies)



Government

The CRA has a limited federal government. Each state gets to select between 1 and 4 Senators based on population. The bulk of legislation, however, is done by state governments. The president of the CRA is selected by the governors similar to how a Prime minister would be selected by a parliament. Most affairs are decided regionally or statewide.

National Information

Capital: Charlotte, North Carolina
Population: 1,852,000
Shorthand name: Confederacy
Demonym: Confederate/Southerner




Next post will detail elections in the new nations. National Information has been added for the USA
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LLR
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« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2016, 10:04:59 am »
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Elections

Elections In the USA

Presidential elections are held every 4 years, beginning in 1788. Both the President and Vice President are elected by getting a majority of electors. Political parties are discouraged (for the time being Wink)

Senate elections are held every 6 years. Each state has two senators, elected in different years. Initial senators from Class 2 and Class 3 will be appointed by the governor. Class 1 Senators will be selected by state legislatures.

All Representatives are up for election every 2 years. Initially, there are 87 representatives, apportioned proportionally.

# of Representatives
CT: 10, MA: 22, NH: 6, NJ: 8, NY: 19, PA: 19, RI: 3

Each state also selects a governor and state government.

States which vote for both Governor and State Legislature: Connecticut, New Hampshire, New York

States which vote for State Legislature, which chooses Governor: Massachusetts, New Jersey, Rhode Island

Pennsylvania has a unicameral legislature, half of which is voted for, which then votes for the governor, who then chooses the remaining half (this system is obsolete and replaced by the MA/NJ/RI system by 1790)

Gubernatorial elections/selections in 1788: MA, NH, PA, RI

In 1790: CT, MA, NH, NJ, NY

Election day is always the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November



Elections in the CRA

Senatorial elections are held every four years, beginning in 1790. Each state gets one senator per 115,000 people, with a cap at 4.

DE: 1, GA: 1, MD: 3, NC: 3, SC: 2, VA: 4 (Total: 20)

Gubernatorial elections are held every four years in all states except Georgia, which hold them every six years. On the second February of every even year, beginning in 1790, the governors meet and select a president.

All elections in the CRA are Democratic (I know, surprising!)

Gubernatorial elections held in 1790: GA (next in 1796), MD, NC, SC, VA

In 1792: DE

Election day is the third Sunday in September.



Any questions? Don't hesitate to ask. Always feel free to comment!
« Last Edit: November 13, 2016, 09:14:26 am by LLR »Logged

Parrotguy
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« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2016, 10:28:15 am »
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Very interesting! Waiting to read more.
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« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2016, 06:50:46 pm »
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It should be noted that the EC was far more popular amongst Southern delegates. Essentially all Northerners, plus Maryland, Delaware, and some of Virginia's delegates wanted popular vote elections, Madison included. The EC was passed so Southern states would pass the Constitution as a whole. So you may want to edit that part.

I suggest political parties/factions sympathetic to the other half, and I also suggest a strong royalist faction in the South.
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LLR
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« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2016, 09:44:46 am »
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Thanks for all the comments, folks! I'm glad you're enjoying this.

It should be noted that the EC was far more popular amongst Southern delegates. Essentially all Northerners, plus Maryland, Delaware, and some of Virginia's delegates wanted popular vote elections, Madison included. The EC was passed so Southern states would pass the Constitution as a whole. So you may want to edit that part.

I suggest political parties/factions sympathetic to the other half, and I also suggest a strong royalist faction in the South.

Your suggestions have been taken into account. The EC thing was seen as a way to appease RI and NH ITTL.



1788

Quick note: there are only Northern elections, as the South doesn't form a constitution until 1790.

Presidential Election

The first election in the north was held between the tickets of John Adams/Samuel Huntington and Patrick Henry/George Clinton

Elector Results (no map because it would get messy)

CT:  8    4
MA: 18  6
NH: 6    2
NJ:  7   3
NY:  15  6
PA:  19  2
RI:  4   1
Total: Adams/Huntington: 73
Henry/Clinton: 28




House of Representatives Elections]

The majority of representatives elected did not formally ally themselves with any faction or party. That said, the best guess of historians and newspapers of the time pegged the total as

Federalist/Pro-Administration: 46
Anti-Administration: 23
Independent/Other: 18

Speaker of the House: Frederick Muhlenberg (P-PA)
Opposition Leader: William Floyd (A-NY)



Composition of the Senate:


Pro-Administration: 10
Anti-Administration: 2
Other: 2

Composition of Governors:

Pro-Administration: 4 (NY, MA, CT, NJ)
Anti-Administration: 1 (RI)
Independent: 1 (PA)
Non-Partisan office: 1 (NH)

State Legislative Bodies
Pro-Administration: 5 (CT, MA, NJ, PA, RI)
Anti-Administration: 1 (NY)
Non-Partisan: 1 (NH)



And so began the great republic... Any questions? Feel free to comment!


Left: Speaker Frederick Muhlenburg
Center: President John Adams
Right: Vice President Samuel Huntington
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Captain Chaos
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« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2016, 10:33:01 am »
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Good luck bringing this to the present day.
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LLR
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« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2016, 10:35:08 am »
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Good luck bringing this to the present day.

I will do it, just you wait Wink
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« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2016, 12:38:57 pm »
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My interest is captured!
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LLR
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« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2016, 02:28:20 pm »
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1789

As the south grew closer and closer to nationhood, the northern government was fully in effect. Adams' allies had huge majorities everywhere, but William Floyd and George Clinton grew a strong case against President Adams. New York suddenly became an anti-administration hotbed, and Clinton was ready to take down pro-Adams governor Philip Schuyler. The 1790 elections would be the first referendum on Adams' ideas, and Clinton's forces were ready to fight.
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« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2016, 03:51:12 pm »
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This is amazing, can't wait for more.
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« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2016, 03:35:44 am »
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This is amazing, can't wait for more.
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« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2016, 06:24:37 am »
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This is amazing, can't wait for more.
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