Revival Proposal

[Vazdul (Formerly Chairman of the Communist Party of Ontario)]

I'm not arguing for uniformity. I just think it would be a good idea for the smallest region to be populous enough to have several MPs, so that multiple players can represent that region if they so choose. That region could still be dominated by rural interests, it would just be a bit more populated.

[Smid]

If I may be so rude as to interupt. I'm not trying to thread-jack or anything, and I'm pretty busy with work, so at this stage I'm not even willing to commit to playing, so feel free to just ignore all of this, it's just a few thoughts I've had.

I think that as the game is focused on the Parliament, the Standing Orders - which dictate the rules by which the Parliament operates - are more important than the actual Constitution. Additionally, as elections will most likely be simulated, the finer details of the electoral method are going to be somewhat less important - so long as the GM knows to make the results somewhat reflective of popular opinion, or create an algorithm that simulates election results. So long as there's sort of an overview to ensure the election results are worked out in a consistent manner, it doesn't particularly matter whether it's FPTP or AV (or PR or anything specifically... I mean, you may want to differentiate between a PR vs Geographic Single Member Electorate model, but if you go with PR, it doesn't really matter if it's PR-STV or D'Hondt, it's more important for the GM to come up with proportionate results that reflect the vote "cast", likewise, if you go with Single Member Electorates, it's more important to look at local areas of political strength for each party, rather than debating the relative virtues of FPTP or AV - unless you do an algorithm to calculate votes in each electorate and then distribute preferences).

I've been working a bit on a Parliamentary Electoral Simulation which could probably be adapted. It's a bit different - bicameral, Lower House has single-member electorates using AV, Upper House has multi-member electorates using PR, etc, but I'm happy to try to adapt that if you'd like. Voting intention in that is meant to be a combination of demographic data (using a formula to apportion votes) and a GM possibly nudging the baseline a little, and a slight random element. Anyway, I won't go on about it, since it doesn't relate to this (unless you want me to adapt it).

Regarding the matter of Standing Orders and the Procedures of the House:

I suggest that each Bill has its own thread. This obviously wouldn't work in Atlasia, where there are numerous regional legislatures, plus a national legislature, plus campaign threads and news threads and all sorts of other things, but with only one Parliament conducting business, Bills will probably not be so numerous as to clutter things up. The Parliament will have to decide rules (Standing Orders) as to how long debate will be open - for example, in many parliaments, debate alternates between Government and Opposition, so two speakers from the Government couldn't speak one after the other. This may not work so well here, as it takes time to type a "speech" and it wouldn't be fair to post, only to find someone from your party has beaten you to it, and your speech needs to be pulled. It probably is reasonable, however, to follow another typical rule in Parliaments, that each MP may only speak once on the Bill (minus questions to the Minister in committee stage, or amendments), as this will mean that people may give greater consideration to what they're typing as their speech. It also would prevent debate raging overly long. Debate could then close and a vote taken on the Bill if no speeches had been made during a 24 hour or 72 hour period.

As for votes and things on the floor of the Chamber:

Obviously, with 150 seats in Parliament, there will be a fair number of Non-Player Characters. I would suggest that these could be managed by the GM for leadership votes for each party, but when it comes to votes on legislation on Bills, these could be controlled by the Party Leadership (each party could decide exactly how they wish to handle that, but probably the Leader of that party would just control all of them). This would reflect MPs, who, to paraphrase Gilbert and Sullivan "Always voted at their party's call and never thought of thinking for themselves at all..." As the game progresses, some of these NPCs could be broken off from the rest of them, to be controlled by certain MPs within that NPC's party (at the GM's discretion). The GM could favour MPs who make especially good speeches on Bills, who have been involved in the game (sort of as a reward, but really, this shows Parliamentary colleagues over whom they have some degree of influence). This would mean that certain active MPs (players) would have more influence than inactive ones, and that would include leadership ballots. Of course, if a player was a bit of a maverick, who consistently caused headaches for their party leadership and strayed far from the party's ideology, obviously this would be reflected in them losing that influence and the GM would be able to reclaim some of that MP's NPC support (simply being a bit of a maverick probably would more put a cap on how much support/NPCs they could get, but really going against the party is where it could probably start to see their support wane and actually lose NPCs).

Simulated elections and rewarding active players by giving them "influence" over a number of NPCs would help prevent the game from heading down the sign-up-friends-so-you-win-the-party-leadership path.

Happy to chat about it more, but don't particularly want to get into a firey debate over it, I'm really just floating a couple of ideas to see what people think.

[Senator Barnes]

That's quite generous of you, Smid! You're advice has always been welcome in my book!

[bullmoose88]

The different voting systems might be beyond my expertise.  Perhaps if the King is GM, a special office can be created and filled by a NPC as elections officer.  Or we shy away from making the King GM.

[Smid]

The different voting systems might be beyond my expertise.  Perhaps if the King is GM, a special office can be created and filled by a NPC as elections officer.  Or we shy away from making the King GM.

It wouldn't be too difficult for you - we either take the path of setting up a spreadsheet that does the hard work and/or you set the popular vote by party. The d'Hondt website someone posted earlier would apportion the votes using PR once you'd decided on the popular vote. My main point is that we don't have to be overly-scientific with it... I'm more trying to say that we should keep it simple - so I think you'd certainly have no difficulty in GM'ing such a method.

[Sibboleth]

Oh, now some of those ideas are good.

[Sibboleth]

I'm not arguing for uniformity. I just think it would be a good idea for the smallest region to be populous enough to have several MPs, so that multiple players can represent that region if they so choose. That region could still be dominated by rural interests, it would just be a bit more populated.

I meant uniformity within regions - obviously no one is calling for the regions to be equal in population terms!

My point is that if these are ancient divisions of some kind (with the exceptions of the carve-outs for the cities), then there can be significant variation within them. There's also no need for the regions to = the pr constituency boundaries.

[afleitch]

I'm not arguing for uniformity. I just think it would be a good idea for the smallest region to be populous enough to have several MPs, so that multiple players can represent that region if they so choose. That region could still be dominated by rural interests, it would just be a bit more populated.

I meant uniformity within regions - obviously no one is calling for the regions to be equal in population terms!

My point is that if these are ancient divisions of some kind (with the exceptions of the carve-outs for the cities), then there can be significant variation within them. There's also no need for the regions to = the pr constituency boundaries.

I agree.

I think at this point, one person or a group of people should 'adopt a region' (preferrably one they are in) and set about creating it's character; it's economy, the sort of people who live there and issues they face. Basically build up each region in order to create a national varied picture.

[Χahar]

If I may butt in without being too late to the party, I think it would be interesting if one party (the Liberals would work best, methinks) were very strong on the outlying island but a clear third on Antillia proper. Presumably in this case it would have a certain nationalist element, which I think would make for an interesting dynamic.

[Vazdul (Formerly Chairman of the Communist Party of Ontario)]

If I may butt in without being too late to the party, I think it would be interesting if one party (the Liberals would work best, methinks) were very strong on the outlying island but a clear third on Antillia proper. Presumably in this case it would have a certain nationalist element, which I think would make for an interesting dynamic.

Pitfarris already has a separate nationalist party.

I'm not arguing for uniformity. I just think it would be a good idea for the smallest region to be populous enough to have several MPs, so that multiple players can represent that region if they so choose. That region could still be dominated by rural interests, it would just be a bit more populated.

I meant uniformity within regions - obviously no one is calling for the regions to be equal in population terms!

My point is that if these are ancient divisions of some kind (with the exceptions of the carve-outs for the cities), then there can be significant variation within them. There's also no need for the regions to = the pr constituency boundaries.

I agree.

I think at this point, one person or a group of people should 'adopt a region' (preferrably one they are in) and set about creating it's character; it's economy, the sort of people who live there and issues they face. Basically build up each region in order to create a national varied picture.

My home region of Bronseland has already been done, but I'm willing to take on another region if that's okay. I'll do Fiskby, since no one is from there yet.

[Χahar]

If I may butt in without being too late to the party, I think it would be interesting if one party (the Liberals would work best, methinks) were very strong on the outlying island but a clear third on Antillia proper. Presumably in this case it would have a certain nationalist element, which I think would make for an interesting dynamic.

Pitfarris already has a separate nationalist party.

I'm aware. I'm saying it would be more interesting if that nationalist element were instead integrated into one of the main parties.

[lilTommy]

If I may butt in without being too late to the party, I think it would be interesting if one party (the Liberals would work best, methinks) were very strong on the outlying island but a clear third on Antillia proper. Presumably in this case it would have a certain nationalist element, which I think would make for an interesting dynamic.

Pitfarris already has a separate nationalist party.

I'm not arguing for uniformity. I just think it would be a good idea for the smallest region to be populous enough to have several MPs, so that multiple players can represent that region if they so choose. That region could still be dominated by rural interests, it would just be a bit more populated.

I meant uniformity within regions - obviously no one is calling for the regions to be equal in population terms!

My point is that if these are ancient divisions of some kind (with the exceptions of the carve-outs for the cities), then there can be significant variation within them. There's also no need for the regions to = the pr constituency boundaries.

I agree.

I think at this point, one person or a group of people should 'adopt a region' (preferrably one they are in) and set about creating it's character; it's economy, the sort of people who live there and issues they face. Basically build up each region in order to create a national varied picture.

My home region of Bronseland has already been done, but I'm willing to take on another region if that's okay. I'll do Fiskby, since no one is from there yet.

Sent you a message, not sure if it sent? feel free to let me know if you'd like to see anything in the Bronseland details, i'ev already begun to add some deatil to the history and some counties & Cities... your home too so let me know

[ilikeverin]

Smid, that looks great!

[afleitch]

Potential Flag



And one for Pitfarris

[Senator Barnes]

Ah, rather pretty.

I like them.

[ilikeverin]

Lovely, afleitch!

[lilTommy]

Potential Flag



And one for Pitfarris

Thats exactly the flag i had planned for Bronseland! esp

[Sibboleth]

We need to look at population figures again; the first attempt makes no sense given the map that we have.

Marksland - is on the south of the mainland and contains the largest city by far. But it's not going to dominate. Let's say a population of around 700,000. Of which c. 500,000 is in the Greater St Mark's Area and c. 350,000 within St Mark's city. Which makes it about the same size as Cardiff or Edinburgh, according to measurement chosen.

Pitfarris - it's clear that the Pitfarris Question is a big one in terms of the politics of our new nation. Which means that a significant percentage of the population have to live here. Let's say around 450,000, making it the second largest region. Of these around 200,000 are in Auldburgh, making it about the same size as Aberdeen.

Bronseland - not sure about this one, but the main city is very close to St Mark's, which would be good for growth. So around 400,000, with about 300,000 in the Greater Kristiana area and about 250,000 in the city itself.

Peterford - is an obvious location for a rather grim industrial region with a falling population. Lets say around 350,000 with about 150,000 of these in Fellsands (so roughly the same population as Swansea) and the rest in smaller towns.

Lindsay - is an obvious location for our little island's agricultural centre. Again, around 350,000 with about 100,000 of these in Lindsay-on-Sea.

Fiskby - the location of Breheim looks industrial, so lets run with that. Similar to Peterford, but a lot smaller. Let's say just 150,000 and only about 30,000 of these in Breheim.

This gives us a population of about 2.4 million, of which about 18% would like on an island that has issues with its union and which would almost certainly be significantly over-represented in the Parliament as a result of historic deals.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Control freak and all that. One that can't add up either, probably. But these are only vague proposals.

[Senator Barnes]

Great job, Al!

And I'm on board for anything that increases the size (or representation) of Pitfarris!

[lilTommy]

We need to look at population figures again; the first attempt makes no sense given the map that we have.

Marksland - is on the south of the mainland and contains the largest city by far. But it's not going to dominate. Let's say a population of around 700,000. Of which c. 500,000 is in the Greater St Mark's Area and c. 350,000 within St Mark's city. Which makes it about the same size as Cardiff or Edinburgh, according to measurement chosen.

Pitfarris - it's clear that the Pitfarris Question is a big one in terms of the politics of our new nation. Which means that a significant percentage of the population have to live here. Let's say around 450,000, making it the second largest region. Of these around 200,000 are in Auldburgh, making it about the same size as Aberdeen.

Bronseland - not sure about this one, but the main city is very close to St Mark's, which would be good for growth. So around 400,000, with about 300,000 in the Greater Kristiana area and about 250,000 in the city itself.

Peterford - is an obvious location for a rather grim industrial region with a falling population. Lets say around 350,000 with about 150,000 of these in Fellsands (so roughly the same population as Swansea) and the rest in smaller towns.

Lindsay - is an obvious location for our little island's agricultural centre. Again, around 350,000 with about 100,000 of these in Lindsay-on-Sea.

Fiskby - the location of Breheim looks industrial, so lets run with that. Similar to Peterford, but a lot smaller. Let's say just 150,000 and only about 30,000 of these in Breheim.

This gives us a population of about 2.4 million, of which about 18% would like on an island that has issues with its union and which would almost certainly be significantly over-represented in the Parliament as a result of historic deals.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Control freak and all that. One that can't add up either, probably. But these are only vague proposals.

I can play with those numbers, im writing up a bio and it only means a few small updates mostly to population figures

[Sibboleth]

The issue of the governance of Pitfarris has been mentioned elsewhere; I'm fairly sure that Andrew intended the politics of Pitfarris to be (to an extent) a satire of the politics of contemporary Scotland, so an Assembly of some kind is as a given. Anyway, a proposal for the government structure, more generally:

Island of Pitfarris

1. Island Assembly (ideally a better name that someone else can come up with).

2. The four Counties and the City of Auldburgh.

3. Either very weak municipalities of some kind, or some variant on that weird divisional system Scottish local government used to have.

Island of Antillia

1. The five Regions and the five Cities.

2. Districts (in rural areas) and Municipalities (for the towns). Districts would have very little power, municipalities a little bit more.

3. Some form of parish/commune setup.

---

All six cities are part of their respective regions for ceremonial and statistical purposes, but for nothing else. They are administratively separate. Pitfarris has its own devolved body because of its separation (culturally, historically and physically) from the mainland. Local power on the island of Antillia would rest at City/Regional level, local power on the island of Pitfarris with its Assembly. This entrenches a sense of divergent political cultures.

[Sibboleth]

I can play with those numbers, im writing up a bio and it only means a few small updates mostly to population figures

What sort of things do you have in mind for the economic base (current and former, if necessary) and settlement structure of Bronseland?

[bullmoose88]

Should I stylize myself as Ralph, King of Antilla...or Ralph, King of Antilla and Pitfarris?

[lilTommy]

So far, counties/towns i have are:

Sorland (North, 50,756) Main Town - Fairhairfjord
Vanaheimr (Far North, 50,485) Main Town - Freyjasby
 - I'm looking at making the topography mountainous in the north here, and thus mining is an old and current industry, fishing is still going to be big, heavily Nordansk speaking.

Kystenland (South Coastal east metro, 38,345) Main Town - Kaupangen
Aesirheimr (West, west metro, 30,681) Main Town - Godfridham
Vikingrlag (Metro, 25,349) Maint Town - Halfdanberg
 - These will be more like valleys, better farming areas. All southern, metro counties, wealthier, commuter to some degree but farming and sheep hearding are still important but dwindling due to influct of commuter communities.

Hvite Dalen (Far West, 11,773) Main Town – St. Olaf
 - A valley between mountains to the north and south, heavily english, farming.

Kristiana - second largest city, royal city, cultural city (3 universities, museums, etc), trying to make it more an opposite of St. Marks which would be the economic and legislative centre of the country. Arts would be huge so i think TV production (home of the state owned network RTA), animation, IT would be new industries
thoughts?

[Insula Dei]

Should I stylize myself as Ralph, King of Antilla...or Ralph, King of Antilla and Pitfarris?

Ralph, King of Antilla.  Pitfarris is a part of the nation, with only a very limited special statute, I'd say.