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| | |-+  Canadian Liberal Leadership Election 2013
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Author Topic: Canadian Liberal Leadership Election 2013  (Read 32002 times)
Smid
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« Reply #200 on: January 19, 2012, 12:53:45 am »
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It wouldn't surprise me if Nenshi is a Liberal. He is certainly quite Progressive.  I'd rather not know if he's a Liberal, because I like him, and I don't want to have a negative view of him. (I'd still support him though, since it's Calgary, and having even a Liberal mayor there is huge).

Actually, Nenshi's predecessor, Dave Bronconnier, was also a Liberal--as was (I think) his predecessor Al Duerr (and even Ralph Klein was Liberal-affiliated before he jumped to the PCs and the legislature).  For some reason, Calgary's mayoral profile quite profoundly contradicts its federal-provincial legislative profile.

No where else for Liberals to go, but municipal politics?

I think municipal politics are seen as less partisan, so conservative voters are willing to vote for good candidates with policies and ideas for improving the city, regardless of political persuasion. That's the impression I've got from some Albertan tories, anyway.
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Hatman
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« Reply #201 on: January 19, 2012, 03:00:46 am »
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I'm still scratching my head as to what happened in 2010 that saw Calgary elect Nenshi and Toronto elect Rob Ford.
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« Reply #202 on: January 19, 2012, 09:29:01 am »
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Calgary has always been much more progressive than people give it credit for.

As for Ford, his election was directly related to Miller. Miller was far too left-wing, or, at least, looked far too left-wing. He was terrible at "selling" his policies, and that's how Ford got elected.
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lilTommy
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« Reply #203 on: January 19, 2012, 09:46:49 am »
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Calgary has always been much more progressive than people give it credit for.

As for Ford, his election was directly related to Miller. Miller was far too left-wing, or, at least, looked far too left-wing. He was terrible at "selling" his policies, and that's how Ford got elected.

I disagree, Miller wasn't that leftist especially while Mayor. He was a second term mayor who didn't run again; if he had, i'm sure he would have won again... thats something we can argue till the end of time but as someone who lives DT, he would have had the old city locked up mostly.
Miller was hurt badly by the strike that was obvious and i think that drove him to step aside. The pendulum just started to swing right, its natural after having a left-centre left administration that the rights arguments started to get more attention/traction. Ford was/is a loud mouth who ran on a slogan and an idea that people were diluted to believe was true... esp those who have no idea what taxes pay for etc. They were more motivated to vote.
Had Tory run, or if even Giambrone, Rossi and Thompson stayed in the race it might have been a different outcome. I always thought it was a mistake for Giambrone to 1)deny the affair/fling and 2) withdraw from the race.

Anyway... TO is a mixed bag, the Old City of toronto is progressive to moderate as you head north and the inner burbs is moderate to conservative depending where you are. I am thankful TO is weak mayor, one vote among many kinda town Smiley
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« Reply #204 on: January 19, 2012, 10:21:09 am »
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Miller looked overly left-wing and incompetent who allowed city hall to fill up with gravy

Looked.

The fact that Ford can't seem to find any gravy proves that this was not the case, but voters thought it was.
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lilTommy
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« Reply #205 on: January 19, 2012, 10:30:39 am »
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Miller looked overly left-wing and incompetent who allowed city hall to fill up with gravy

Looked.

The fact that Ford can't seem to find any gravy proves that this was not the case, but voters thought it was.

... To some he did for sure, and you saw that when the votes were counted (outside the old city Ford won, but Smitherman took TO).
Exactly, there was and is very little gravy to be had... like i said, it was a perfect storm that helped Ford win.

Anywho.. on topic, that Star report also mentioned Mark Holland as a contender, where would he stand among the crowd? is it likely he would run. So far there have been no names from West of Ontario, have the Grits given up the West? it has to be said that the seats they won were in most cases won on the current MP (thinking Goodale, Lameroux, Fry) All three ridings would fall if they step down.
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« Reply #206 on: January 19, 2012, 10:57:15 am »
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Holland: Sounds likely, but he has no chance of beating Rae.

West: Lamoureux is too inexperienced, Goodale is too old, politically dated and unilingual, and Fry's batshoot.
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lilTommy
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« Reply #207 on: January 19, 2012, 11:02:26 am »
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I wasn't advocating any of them running at all...  your points are right on Tongue
But any interest from the west at all, outside caucus ala Topp? (I don't see Robertson going Liberal, if anything he might see a 2015 NDP run in VanCentre (or whatever riding is roughly that one)
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« Reply #208 on: January 19, 2012, 11:10:31 am »
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No. All the candidates are Ontarian except LeBlanc, if he runs.
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Hatman
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« Reply #209 on: January 19, 2012, 11:28:37 am »
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No. All the candidates are Ontarian except LeBlanc, if he runs.

What, he's not bland anymore Huh Wink
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« Reply #210 on: January 19, 2012, 11:33:14 am »
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He'd be a mixture of Ed Miliband and Stephane Dion. Not exactly the guy you want facing Stephen Harper.
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« Reply #211 on: January 19, 2012, 08:11:13 pm »
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As for Ford, his election was directly related to Miller. Miller was far too left-wing, or, at least, looked far too left-wing. He was terrible at "selling" his policies, and that's how Ford got elected.

Miller wasn't terrible at "selling" his policies.  Smitherman (and Pantalone) were.
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« Reply #212 on: January 20, 2012, 03:34:33 am »
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If Lamoureux weren't in his first full term in Parliament, he would be an interesting choice for leader.
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« Reply #213 on: January 20, 2012, 12:44:34 pm »
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Agreed there. For now he should be a western lieutenant, but he'll never be leader.
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #214 on: January 20, 2012, 02:14:11 pm »
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Here's the problem: Liberal activists don't want the one man not named Bob Rae who's been at the forefront of rebuilding. Namely Brison.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/opinion/defence+politicians/6020739/story.html
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« Les plus nobles principes du monde ne valent que par l’action.  » - Charles de Gaulle



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« Reply #215 on: January 21, 2012, 10:31:42 pm »
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Rex Murphy last night: Rae will win because there's no one else.
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« Reply #216 on: January 22, 2012, 10:48:57 pm »
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To continue a conversation I had with Hatman in the General Discussion thread, Rae is more popular than Harper in Ontario- but only until the Permanent Campaign reboots. Depends if Rae continues defending his record or gets convinced to drop that altogether and keep it all Brisonomics, all the time.
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Teddy (IDS Legislator)
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« Reply #217 on: January 22, 2012, 10:51:18 pm »
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I don't think Rae has to defend his record really. It was so long ago, and, the people who are most likely to vote for him now - Liberals - are also the most likely to understand why he did what he did.
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« Reply #218 on: January 22, 2012, 11:03:03 pm »
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Rae himself doesn't think so- that's why he's building a warchest for a Permanent Campaign of their own. I agree that it shouldn't matter after a generation, but evidently Ontarians still think differently.

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Hatman
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« Reply #219 on: January 22, 2012, 11:39:14 pm »
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There are people even today who wont vote for the provincial NDP just because of Bob Rae. (while they are happy to vote for the federal NDP)
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« Reply #220 on: January 23, 2012, 12:01:55 am »
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Regardless, I think we can all agree that none of those considering running can seriously challenge Rae's hammerlock on the nomination. Who will run if Rae does apart from Kennedy? Garneau and McGuinty are vanishingly unlikely. Holland and BW probably, dunno about Hall Findlay. Definitely not LeBland.

I'd also recommend a Shadow Cabinet reshuffle, since many people either shouldn't hold portfolios (Fry) and others are ill-suited for their current ones (Bennett in Aboriginal instead of Health).
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« Reply #221 on: January 23, 2012, 01:21:23 am »
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Rae lead an incompetent government.
Some people think Ontario NDP = Incompetent government.
It really had less to do with left/right on that
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« Reply #222 on: January 23, 2012, 08:06:25 am »
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If Lamoureux weren't in his first full term in Parliament, he would be an interesting choice for leader.

He is an anti-abortion fanatic....not much chance of Liberals wanting to go that way!
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lilTommy
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« Reply #223 on: January 23, 2012, 08:47:38 am »
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Rae lead an incompetent government.
Some people think Ontario NDP = Incompetent government.
It really had less to do with left/right on that

Mostly, i wont go as far as saying incompetent but they ran a pretty poor goverment. Well it was a perfect storm in 90, i will defend parts of that term but not all of it.

Many... if not most of the MPPs elected in 90 were not expected to win, when i lived in Peterborough i work on the executive with Jenny Carter, who was elected in 90 and ran mainly cause her Husband had a name in the community... and we cabn't forget that Mamoliti (toronto extremist right wing councillor) was an NDP MPP too... (still makes me cring).
The corporate business sector in the province was out to get them, at every opportunity, every right wing media outlet were all working against the NDP...
NAFTA was coming into effect which made the recession of the 90s even harder on the governement.
But worst of all, for those of us who bleed orange, they broke their promises and failed to bring in Public Auto insurance and force the social contract on workers.

Anywho... point is, I agree with Hatman, yes there will be those who vote Liberal now who might bolt for the Tories (more likely) if he run and wins the leadership. Then depending on who the NDP nominate they may lose their soft left wing to the NDP as well (Mulcair, maybe Nash as the ON girl)
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« Reply #224 on: January 23, 2012, 10:46:43 am »
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How would other Ontarian contenders like Kennedy or David McGuinty do there?
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« Les plus nobles principes du monde ne valent que par l’action.  » - Charles de Gaulle



Is it excessive to hold a politician's feet to the fire for giving his base the run around at every turn?
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