Canadian Liberal Leadership Election 2013

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Has anyone used the phrase "Yesterday's Baby" re Sheila Copps?

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Also re "clashes of leaders": in Ontario, Frank De Jong of the Greens ran against Premier Ernie Eves in '03, if stuff like that counts.

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Also re "clashes of leaders": in Ontario, Frank De Jong of the Greens ran against Premier Ernie Eves in '03, if stuff like that counts.

Oh, and I forgot: the very next year, federally--GP leader Jim Harris ran against NDP leader Jack Layton (and Grit incumbent Dennis Mills) in Toronto-Danforth.

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It wouldn't surprise me if Nenshi is a Liberal. He is certainly quite Progressive.  I'd rather not know if he's a Liberal, because I like him, and I don't want to have a negative view of him. (I'd still support him though, since it's Calgary, and having even a Liberal mayor there is huge).

Actually, Nenshi's predecessor, Dave Bronconnier, was also a Liberal--as was (I think) his predecessor Al Duerr (and even Ralph Klein was Liberal-affiliated before he jumped to the PCs and the legislature).  For some reason, Calgary's mayoral profile quite profoundly contradicts its federal-provincial legislative profile.

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As for Ford, his election was directly related to Miller. Miller was far too left-wing, or, at least, looked far too left-wing. He was terrible at "selling" his policies, and that's how Ford got elected.

Miller wasn't terrible at "selling" his policies.  Smitherman (and Pantalone) were.

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A couple i'm not even sure are Liberals but that dosen't stop anyone really right... Lang, any relation to Andrew Lang (TorontoDanforth candidate previously?)

Brother.  And the father's Trudeau-era cabinet minister Otto Lang.

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I've my doubts about such a merger actively taking place; because unlike the PC/Reform situation, the Liberal-NDP situation isn't the product of schism--and besides, the Liberals have been perfectly capable in the past of winning government even with the NDP pushing 20%.  And above all, it ducks the issue regarding reducing the Conservative vote, as opposed to piling on it in the awkward name of a united front....

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It was a totally different situation when the PCs and the Canadian Alliance merged in 2003. The Liberals under Paul Martin were consistently polling over 50% and the PCs and Tories were both in the teens. They realized that merging was the only way to escape annhilation. At the time they weren't even thinking about winning - it was about survival.

And before that, the formation of the Canadian Alliance was seen as the only way the "redneck" Reformers could seem like a viable governing, as opposed to perennial-opposition, party--sort of like, positioning themselves as a successor to the PCs without actually merging with the PCs.  (Unfortunately, Stockwell Day was no Layton/Mulcair.)

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MacKay and Moore, to name the most prominent. I meant that the NDP would dominate both numerically and ideologically, just as the Alliance did. Hopefully this race starts soon.

Except that James Moore was first elected as an Alliancer, not a PC.  He's now "red" by default (and perhaps as a reflection of his own younger generation).

But back to the unite-the-left subject--I think the first time that came to be voiced as an "issue" was in the aftermath of 1988's "Free Trade Election", where more Canadians voted for an anti-Free Trade party than pro.  But prior to then, "uniting the left" was redundant--and indeed, in those federal/provincial jurisdictions where the Liberals went into thorough eclipse, it was more often than not on behalf of uniting the right against the "socialist hordes"...

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Compared to Bob Rae's, quite minor. Had he made Iggy leader that would be one thing, and at any rate only junkies would remember that offhand. Kennedy has two handicaps: no seat and last I heard, weak French.

Well, not only no seat, but *lost* seat, to boot.  And to Peggy Nash, to boot.

I think his handicap is that he comes across as a bit of an insipid "NDP lite" pretty boy--which isn't great in an age of the NDP being stronger, nor is it great if the Grits want to assemble anything like the grand electoral coalitions of old--which, sad to say, also involves repatriating some erstwhile Grit vote from the Tories.  (Which also helps explain why Dalton McGuinty defeated Kennedy for the provincial leadership a decade and a half ago.)

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Is it really his (or anyone else's) fault that he went under though? A few Liberals (Holland, Mendes, etc.) won their advance poll but lost their seat when the Dippers surged post-debate. I also highly doubt he would interfere with Brison's command of their policy shop, which is definitely not Dipper-lite.

As for the "advance poll" thing: even in the combined "600s" and Special Voting Rules, Kennedy got 3200 to Nash's 3600.

And as for the Kennedy vs Brison thing: that *could* wind up fatally schizophrenic, a la "Red Tory" leaders in Ontario running on hard-right platforms a la Larry Grossman and John Tory...

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Honestly, I don't think LeBlanc would be *that* fatal as either interrim or permanent leader.  Indeed, his apparent "blandness" might be a blessing in disguise.

OTOH, blowing a horn for Gerard Kennedy as a "Grits' only hope" at this point is like blowing a horn for Myspace as the be-all and end-all of social media at this point.

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Though keep in mind that the apparent blandest, wimpiest Liberal tool in the running defeated Kennedy for the provincial leadership in Ontario--and look at Dalton McGuinty now. 

Perhaps it helps that when push comes to shove, McGuinty turned out to be less bland and wimpy than Kennedy would have been.  Or at least more of a salt-of-the-earth electable-in-the-heartland bland & wimpy, as opposed to Kennedy's vapid "Trudeau Lite" cast.

IOW, it's all about the gravitas, baby--sure, maybe Dom LeBlanc's no Dalton McBates; but notwithstanding Shawinigate and all of that, if one considers where the Liberals were electable or competitive during Chretien's leadership, maybe being a toady of that gang ain't so bad in the end...

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Well, at this point, Gerard Kennedy's no solution, either--yeah, he might have been in 2006; but in the aftermath of Jackmania reconfiguring everything (and I'm not just talking about Kennedy's personal defeat), if GK is all the Liberals can muster up as a "commanding leadership presence", then they're truly destined for the vapid-bunch-of-twerp-land of infinite third-place oblivion.  As "saviours" go, he'd be more like the Stockwell Day of the centre-left in practice.

In which case, maybe LeBlanc may actually benefit from low expectations--and, perhaps, as a leader better able to "manage" third-party status: more of a Charles Kennedy than Nick Clegg figure IOW...

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The NDP must be thrilled at what a weak field of leadership candidates the Liberals seem to have.

At this point, they might as well bite the bullet and promote Justin Trudeau, whether he or anybody else within or without feels he's "fit" or not.

An alternate notion came to mind: what if Bob Rae retired and his provincial counterpart, Glen Murray, moved up to take his place, and...

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Quebec is the only province where a party can go from single digits to almost 50% in a single election, i.e. PCs in 1984 and NDP in 2012.  No other province can you get such a large swing in one election, at least not upwards, maybe downwards though.

How about the Reform Party in 1993?

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Rae's allusion t/w possibly not running for reelection made me wonder whether even Glen Murray might be a possibility...

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Which would be awful becauce Trudeau seems very incompetent. He has no business being there and wouldn't be if he wasn't the son of his father.

You make Justin Trudeau sound like the Rob Ford of the federal Liberals.

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In fact when the PQ was floundering under Boisclair, polls showed they would do better with Marois, then she became leader and promptly tanked.

Well, they *did* do better.  Just not "better enough".  (And with an assist from the ADQ *really* tanking.)

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Why is Trudeau so popular? Did he accomplish anything yet? And what are his political positions?

the Trudeau name is ICONIC, not only in the Liberal Party but in Canada, but especially among Liberals.
Hes also exceptionally media savy, and rather handsome and young... a trifecta if i ever heard one
But your point stands; i don't think hes accomplished much?, hes only in his second term and neither were in gov't. Can anyone chim in on possible private members bills or anything hes ever done?

Really hes the darling of the party... because of his name

And with an assist from what put him on the map in his own right: his eulogy for his dad in 2000...

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When I saw this thread active, I wondered if someone posted suggesting that Jean Charest run for the Liberal leadership...

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Think of him as somewhere btw/ JFK Jr and Dubyah.