Israeli oil company breaks embargo, trades with Iran, hilarity ensues

[Liberté]

The Age

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One of the perks of capitalism is that it tends to abolish asinine embargoes like this one all on its own. It also makes hypocrites of nationalists.

[TheGlobalizer]

Nice...  Hilarity indeed.

[opebo]

There's an Israeli oil company?

[TheGlobalizer]

There's an Israeli oil company?

Shipping, but yeah, icwutudidthur.

[Liberté]

There's an Israeli oil company?

Shipping, but yeah, icwutudidthur.

Same difference. ;-)

Here's a rhetorical question: if Israel can trade with Iran despite it "not being in Israel's best interests", why can't America despite it "not being in Israel's best interests"?

[TheGlobalizer]

Same difference. ;-)

Here's a rhetorical question: if Israel can trade with Iran despite it "not being in Israel's best interests", why can't America despite it "not being in Israel's best interests"?

Because most of Israel is to the left of the US on the Israel issue.

[Liberté]

Same difference. ;-)

Here's a rhetorical question: if Israel can trade with Iran despite it "not being in Israel's best interests", why can't America despite it "not being in Israel's best interests"?

Because most of Israel is to the left of the US on the Israel issue.

Something has got to give on this issue. If there were political space enough in political discourse to lay out a clear argument against the alliance with Israel in terms that cannot be (deliberately) misconstrued as anti-Semitic, the link I posted in the OP would easily form the crux of such an argument: why should America hold herself to a standard that the Israelis themselves refuse to enforce?

But no. The political establishment allows no room for questioning that relationship.

[JewCon]

This company needs to get some sort of punishment.

[Liberté]

This company needs to get some sort of punishment.

Why's that? They're engaging in exactly the same activity America and Israel (rhetorically) supports - free trade. If anything, the Israeli government ought to get 'punished', and Netanyahu specifically, if it turns out to be true that he granted the Ofer Group explicit permission to trade with Iran. Actually, what ought to happen is that this should put to the lie the idea that trading with Iran materially harms Israel's interests, or the interests of anyone else. But I doubt the nationalist establishment in either America or Israel would allow that idea to take root. 

[dead0man]

There's an Israeli oil company?

Shipping, but yeah, icwutudidthur.

Same difference. ;-)

Here's a rhetorical question: if Israel can trade with Iran despite it "not being in Israel's best interests", why can't America despite it "not being in Israel's best interests"?

Did you not read your own OP?

[Liberté]

There's an Israeli oil company?

Shipping, but yeah, icwutudidthur.

Same difference. ;-)

Here's a rhetorical question: if Israel can trade with Iran despite it "not being in Israel's best interests", why can't America despite it "not being in Israel's best interests"?

Did you not read your own OP?

I certainly did read my OP. It acknowledges implicitly that the embargo is bunkum from the perspective of the Israelis -

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- but does not offer an explanatory mechanism as to why this should be.

I, of course, have my own ideas. But they're verboten in our modern-day 'discourse'.

[dead0man]

Seriously?

[Liberté]

Seriously?

If I went on television and said that "it's unfair that Israel has engaged in under-the-table trading with Iran where American corporations are punished severely for doing the same", and insinuated - as I believe - that this is state of affairs is at least semi-intentional on the part of Israel, I'd be branded an anti-Semitic demagogue spouting the old 'shyster' myth. It's unfortunate that political correctness has overtaken the will to truth in our age.

[MaxQue]

Seriously?

If I went on television and said that "it's unfair that Israel has engaged in under-the-table trading with Iran where American corporations are punished severely for doing the same", and insinuated - as I believe - that this is state of affairs is at least semi-intentional on the part of Israel, I'd be branded an anti-Semitic demagogue spouting the old 'shyster' myth. It's unfortunate that political correctness has overtaken the will to truth in our age.

You already said too much.
Gustaf will come here and will accuse of being anti-semitic, like he does to anybody which contest Israeli politics.

[Liberté]

Seriously?

If I went on television and said that "it's unfair that Israel has engaged in under-the-table trading with Iran where American corporations are punished severely for doing the same", and insinuated - as I believe - that this is state of affairs is at least semi-intentional on the part of Israel, I'd be branded an anti-Semitic demagogue spouting the old 'shyster' myth. It's unfortunate that political correctness has overtaken the will to truth in our age.

You already said too much.
Gustaf will come here and will accuse of being anti-semitic, like he does to anybody which contest Israeli politics.

That's not necessarily intentional on his part. Public discourse in the West has become so philosemitic that anything which diverges from that course is automatically relegated within it to an antisemitic position.

[danny]

This thread misses the point of what really happened here.
A Knesset committee convened to talk about this but the head of the committee got a secret note in the middle and stopped the meeting saying that there more to the story than people know. Which I assume to mean that ZIM was acting on the Israeli governments behalf (some sort of spying).

[dead0man]

Seriously?

If I went on television and said that "it's unfair that Israel has engaged in under-the-table trading with Iran where American corporations are punished severely for doing the same", and insinuated - as I believe - that this is state of affairs is at least semi-intentional on the part of Israel, I'd be branded an anti-Semitic demagogue spouting the old 'shyster' myth. It's unfortunate that political correctness has overtaken the will to truth in our age.

Does being called an anti-Semitic demagogue hurt?  Also, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be called an anti-Semitic demagogue for saying just that.  We usually reserve the demagogue label for those suggesting all Jews should move to Siberia or N.Dakota or for stating much more clearly than you did that "the Joos run the world".  Maybe if you cleaned it up a bit you could reach that level, but not yet.

But anyway, as your OP states, Israel can't trade with Iran and may or may not be able to offer "services".  I'm not sure what makes up "services", but it probably doesn't include shipping oil for them or selling them tankers or this "oil company" (that really isn't an oil company, not sure why that's in the thread title) wouldn't be in trouble and this thread wouldn't exist.

And me thinks you might not fully understand what "free trade" means.  No worries, we're all here to learn.  We had a long time poster a year or so ago try and claim a black market was a libertarian's dream because it was a true free market with no government intervetion at all.  We all had a good laugh at that one!

[Liberté]

This thread misses the point of what really happened here.
A Knesset committee convened to talk about this but the head of the committee got a secret note in the middle and stopped the meeting saying that there more to the story than people know. Which I assume to mean that ZIM was acting on the Israeli governments behalf (some sort of spying).

Even if this is true (and there's absolutely no reason to assume it is without evidence, as it sounds like a post facto rationalization), far from exhonorating Israel and its government, it actually compounds their problems: the fact remains that Israel still violated the embargo, and they turned trade into a tool of geopolitical subterfuge. It doesn't look good if this is simply a case of Israel winking at one of their own companies to ignore the embargo; it looks worse if the government actively cajoled them into doing it for reasons of espionage.

[Liberté]

Does being called an anti-Semitic demagogue hurt?  Also, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be called an anti-Semitic demagogue for saying just that.  We usually reserve the demagogue label for those suggesting all Jews should move to Siberia or N.Dakota or for stating much more clearly than you did that "the Joos run the world".  Maybe if you cleaned it up a bit you could reach that level, but not yet.

It hurts as all untruth and slander, slung by those with an indefensible position, hurts. It also hurts when the critics of, for instance, rap music are bruised by the label of 'racist' being hurled at them for no apparent reason.

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Exactly. So you recognize that Israel violated the embargo.

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Generally speaking, 'free trade' means the abolition of trade barriers of all sorts and the absence of any impediment to the flow of goods. That's what the Ofer Group was engaging in.

[dead0man]

Does being called an anti-Semitic demagogue hurt?  Also, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be called an anti-Semitic demagogue for saying just that.  We usually reserve the demagogue label for those suggesting all Jews should move to Siberia or N.Dakota or for stating much more clearly than you did that "the Joos run the world".  Maybe if you cleaned it up a bit you could reach that level, but not yet.

It hurts as all untruth and slander, slung by those with an indefensible position, hurts. It also hurts when the critics of, for instance, rap music are bruised by the label of 'racist' being hurled at them for no apparent reason.

I don't know..maybe I'm weird, but when people hurl insults at me the ones that clearly aren't true hurt the least.  It's the ones that hit a little too close to home that do the damage.  If somebody were to call me an anti-Semite I'd laugh at them.  If they called me a chubby bald guy, well, I guess I'd agree with them.

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Exactly. So you recognize that Israel violated the embargo. [/quote]No, the Ofer Group allegedly did and Israel is investigating it.  BIG difference.

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Generally speaking, 'free trade' means the abolition of trade barriers of all sorts and the absence of any impediment to the flow of goods. That's what the Ofer Group was engaging in.
[/quote]I reiterate, you might not know what free trade means.  From wiki:

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Clearly that aint what is alleged to have gone on here.  Doing something behind your back doesn't mean I did it without your interference, it means I did it behind your back.

[Liberté]

I don't know..maybe I'm weird, but when people hurl insults at me the ones that clearly aren't true hurt the least.  It's the ones that hit a little too close to home that do the damage.  If somebody were to call me an anti-Semite I'd laugh at them.  If they called me a chubby bald guy, well, I guess I'd agree with them.

That's a fine little exercise in pop psychology, but its relation to the truth is minimal. Generally people get upset when their positions are deliberately misconstrued to be the result of a character flaw rather than intellectual conviction when they know their positions are founded on such a conviction.

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The original article states:

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This implies that they had permission from the Israeli State to go in and conduct trade. An Israeli poster seems to confirm this:

This thread misses the point of what really happened here.
A Knesset committee convened to talk about this but the head of the committee got a secret note in the middle and stopped the meeting saying that there more to the story than people know. Which I assume to mean that ZIM was acting on the Israeli governments behalf (some sort of spying).

Ofer was simply responding to a government incentive, no?