With job competition now in India/China..are our "good economic" days over?
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  With job competition now in India/China..are our "good economic" days over?
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Author Topic: With job competition now in India/China..are our "good economic" days over?  (Read 1099 times)
sg0508
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« on: August 27, 2011, 01:53:55 PM »

Corporations have murdered small businesses and we let it happen.  Mergers/acquisitions have eliminated competition and employers look for any reason to send jobs overseas to save 80% of the healthcare/payroll costs. 

Since We are now in a World Economy and clearly cannot compete on a price-basis, are our days in the US where we were considered to be in good economic times (mid to late 80s and 90s) over and this time, for good?
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opebo
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« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2011, 01:56:55 PM »

You consider the good times the eighties and nineties?  Good times were the 1960s and early 1970s!  But yes, of course if we have an open market with very poor countries american workers must become impoverished by it.
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Sbane
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« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2011, 02:40:34 PM »

Wage growth is pretty high in both India and China. Similar concerns were had about Japan, Germany, Korea, Taiwan etc.
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sg0508
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« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2011, 02:42:34 PM »

All about supply/demand.  The supply skyrocketed with globalization, which basically gives employers 100% of the bargaining power.  Employees have almost none now and the raises that people used to get are gone..even in better economic times, don't expect a general white collar employee who is not at the management level to "get paid".
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Gustaf
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« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2011, 05:56:19 AM »

US workers get paid more than Chinese ones because they're more productive. As Chinese productivity goes up, so will their wages. Thus, there will be no problem. That, at least, is the simple and short version.

Certain sectors can be disproportionately hurt of course.
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Person Man
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« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2011, 07:27:45 AM »
« Edited: August 28, 2011, 07:29:31 AM by Toby Queef »

US workers get paid more than Chinese ones because they're more productive. As Chinese productivity goes up, so will their wages. Thus, there will be no problem. That, at least, is the simple and short version.

Certain sectors can be disproportionately hurt of course.

Is productivity the only variable in determining real wages or is it even the largest variable?  Ideally, it would be....people should get what they pay for....but why get a $900 plasma screen TV when a $50 14 year old 27inch TV at the pawn shop does the job?
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Gustaf
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« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2011, 08:48:00 AM »

US workers get paid more than Chinese ones because they're more productive. As Chinese productivity goes up, so will their wages. Thus, there will be no problem. That, at least, is the simple and short version.

Certain sectors can be disproportionately hurt of course.

Is productivity the only variable in determining real wages or is it even the largest variable?  Ideally, it would be....people should get what they pay for....but why get a $900 plasma screen TV when a $50 14 year old 27inch TV at the pawn shop does the job?

Not everywhere always, but, basically, yeah, productivity determines real wages.

As for why people buy plasma screen TVs, I wouldn't know, I never bought a tv in my life.
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opebo
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« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2011, 10:50:49 AM »

Wrong, Gustaf. Productivity only determines wages once there is a macro-economic environment in which there is demand for the production.  Which is why capitalism doesn't work.
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Politico
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« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2011, 02:27:43 PM »
« Edited: August 29, 2011, 04:04:08 PM by Politico »

Wrong, Gustaf. Productivity only determines wages once there is a macro-economic environment in which there is demand for the production.  Which is why capitalism doesn't work.

I am glad to hear that our beloved opebo is capable of solving millions of interconnected input-output functions simultaneously and instantaneously in order to bring about a functional command economy that even remotely resembles our current macroeconomic environment. When are you going to be crowned as the greatest mathematician/economist of all-time?
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lowtech redneck
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« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2011, 03:19:24 PM »

US workers get paid more than Chinese ones because they're more productive. As Chinese productivity goes up, so will their wages. Thus, there will be no problem. That, at least, is the simple and short version.

Certain sectors can be disproportionately hurt of course.

Is productivity the only variable in determining real wages or is it even the largest variable?  Ideally, it would be....people should get what they pay for....but why get a $900 plasma screen TV when a $50 14 year old 27inch TV at the pawn shop does the job?

Have you tried playing Oblivion or Halo on a 14 year-old TV (which in my case was ironically sitting on top of an even older, non-working television)?  It leaves a lot to be desired.   
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opebo
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« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2011, 06:16:27 PM »

Wrong, Gustaf. Productivity only determines wages once there is a macro-economic environment in which there is demand for the production.  Which is why capitalism doesn't work.

I am glad to hear that our beloved opebo is capable of solving millions of interconnected input-output functions simultaneously and instantaneously in order to bring about a functional command economy that even remotely resembles our current macroeconomic environment. When are you going to be crowned as the greatest mathematician/economist of all-time?

'Command economy'?  No one suggested such a thing, p.
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phk
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« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2011, 08:22:52 PM »

In short, no.
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Politico
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« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2011, 05:30:16 AM »
« Edited: August 30, 2011, 05:50:40 AM by Politico »

Wrong, Gustaf. Productivity only determines wages once there is a macro-economic environment in which there is demand for the production.  Which is why capitalism doesn't work.

I am glad to hear that our beloved opebo is capable of solving millions of interconnected input-output functions simultaneously and instantaneously in order to bring about a functional command economy that even remotely resembles our current macroeconomic environment. When are you going to be crowned as the greatest mathematician/economist of all-time?

'Command economy'?  No one suggested such a thing, p.

For any market, there are only two options known to mankind: free markets or markets with government intervention. You clearly have more confidence in the latter and feel that markets should be completely controlled by government, but do you realize what that implies mathematically?
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Gustaf
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« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2011, 06:20:31 AM »

Wrong, Gustaf. Productivity only determines wages once there is a macro-economic environment in which there is demand for the production.  Which is why capitalism doesn't work.

I am glad to hear that our beloved opebo is capable of solving millions of interconnected input-output functions simultaneously and instantaneously in order to bring about a functional command economy that even remotely resembles our current macroeconomic environment. When are you going to be crowned as the greatest mathematician/economist of all-time?

'Command economy'?  No one suggested such a thing, p.

For any market, there are only two options known to mankind: free markets or markets with government intervention. You clearly have more confidence in the latter and feel that markets should be completely controlled by government, but do you realize what that implies mathematically?

Eh. I'd rather say that there are free markets with substantial government intervention and planned markets with only limited freedom.

I don't know of any market devoid of government intervention. And not even planned economies, as far as I know, are completely without some market mechanisms.

Of course, there is a dividing line between market economies like those of the West and planned economies like those of the old Soviet bloc. And it's also true that an economy that implemented Opebo's various fantasies would die very, very quickly.
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opebo
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« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2011, 12:17:42 PM »

'Command economy'?  No one suggested such a thing, p.

For any market, there are only two options known to mankind: free markets or markets with government intervention. You clearly have more confidence in the latter and feel that markets should be completely controlled by government,

How absurd.  You always jump to these completely baseless conclusions, poli.  Obviously massive and frequent government intervention is necessary for the economy to function at all well in the long run, but there is no need to ever micro-manage it. Macro-economics is the function of the State, and 'businessmen' can operate the microeconomics, as long as they are firmly guided by the State.

For example, I've no interest in the State building any structures, but I would like it to exert a powerful influence over the market for housing, offices, retail, and suchlike structures through government loans, and in other ways, as well as contracting out enormous infrastructure projects.
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