NY-09, Special Election Thread
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Author Topic: NY-09, Special Election Thread  (Read 94331 times)
NY Jew
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« Reply #150 on: September 02, 2011, 05:29:45 PM »

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I noticed you didn't answer this question
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danny
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« Reply #151 on: September 02, 2011, 05:58:31 PM »

considering the fact that the demographic I'm speaking about is one of the most hated groups if not the most hated group in the world I think you might be the bigot.

PS. even if were all bigots it still doesn't change the fact that if a demographic that is quite large in the district changes from 90% support to anywhere from 60-90+% the other way that will effect this race.
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If you agree to stay out of NY then I'll agree to stay out of Greece.

Cut the PC stuff with me kid. I'm not an AMPAS member. If you want to be a homophobe own it and stop hiding behind your religion.
I'm not a homophobe for 2 reasons
1. I'm not afraid of homosexuals
2. I don't like them for rational reasons (which happen to be 100% based on religion)

I'm also not hiding behind my religion, my religion is everything to me and frankly most Orthodox Jews.

and if you want to be an anti semite own up to it and stop hiding behind your liberalism.

please tell me what I should do with this statement in Jewish tradition if I wasn't in your words a homophobe (keep in mind we do not change the text to suit what ever the in thing is of the times)
(this is a translation of course)
god did not decree the flood until men started writing marriage documents for other men


leaving aside the reasons behind it over 40 Rabbis including some of the biggest rabbis in America came out against Weprin for the reason I said electorally speaking that means something whether or not that homophobic or not (and if you say they are your giving more credence to the fact that your the true bigot).  When it comes to financing Jewish organization Weprin is equal to none and if it wasn't for the tremendous elephant (or donkey of a man) in the room he would be getting plenty of support that is now going out to vote against him.

He didn't say anything remotely antisemitic in this thread.
and saying you don't like gays is because of the bible doesn't mean you're not a homophobe, that's just your reason for being a homophobe (i.e you are homophobic because you follow a homophobic bible).
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NY Jew
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« Reply #152 on: September 02, 2011, 06:14:51 PM »

considering the fact that the demographic I'm speaking about is one of the most hated groups if not the most hated group in the world I think you might be the bigot.

PS. even if were all bigots it still doesn't change the fact that if a demographic that is quite large in the district changes from 90% support to anywhere from 60-90+% the other way that will effect this race.
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If you agree to stay out of NY then I'll agree to stay out of Greece.

Cut the PC stuff with me kid. I'm not an AMPAS member. If you want to be a homophobe own it and stop hiding behind your religion.
I'm not a homophobe for 2 reasons
1. I'm not afraid of homosexuals
2. I don't like them for rational reasons (which happen to be 100% based on religion)

I'm also not hiding behind my religion, my religion is everything to me and frankly most Orthodox Jews.

and if you want to be an anti semite own up to it and stop hiding behind your liberalism.

please tell me what I should do with this statement in Jewish tradition if I wasn't in your words a homophobe (keep in mind we do not change the text to suit what ever the in thing is of the times)
(this is a translation of course)
god did not decree the flood until men started writing marriage documents for other men


leaving aside the reasons behind it over 40 Rabbis including some of the biggest rabbis in America came out against Weprin for the reason I said electorally speaking that means something whether or not that homophobic or not (and if you say they are your giving more credence to the fact that your the true bigot).  When it comes to financing Jewish organization Weprin is equal to none and if it wasn't for the tremendous elephant (or donkey of a man) in the room he would be getting plenty of support that is now going out to vote against him.

He didn't say anything remotely antisemitic in this thread.
and saying you don't like gays is because of the bible doesn't mean you're not a homophobe, that's just your reason for being a homophobe (i.e you are homophobic because you follow a homophobic bible).

he said I was "hiding behind religion" you said I was against them to Judaism thus is the difference he was attacking me for my Judaism thus earning the anti semite title.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #153 on: September 02, 2011, 06:19:43 PM »

Firstly, welcome to the forum. Secondly... you will soon discover that certain ways of arguing should be avoided if you want people to take you more than slightly seriously ever other Gibbous Moon.
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danny
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« Reply #154 on: September 02, 2011, 06:51:26 PM »

he said I was "hiding behind religion" you said I was against them to Judaism thus is the difference he was attacking me for my Judaism thus earning the anti semite title.

"hiding behind religion" is a way of attacking you and not the religion.
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cinyc
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« Reply #155 on: September 02, 2011, 08:54:26 PM »

Based off what exactly??  Gay marriage vote or not, Turner was likely to get the Orthodox vote and win the Brooklyn portion of the district

Btw, the district has more than just Orthodox Jews, Werpin leads among Jewish voters.

NY-09 has more than just Jews, too.  It's the non-Hispanic white vote sink in Southeast Brooklyn and Southern Queens, largely owing its shape and demographic makeup to the shapes of the Brooklyn and Queens VRA African-American and Hispanic districts.   The district includes substantial Italian and Irish-American neighborhoods as well.   As someone noted earlier in the thread, it's arguably the most New York of NYC's congressional districts, with the lowest percentage of residents born in a US state other than the district's state of any Congressional district in the country (though it has a large share of foreign-born residents).

Whether the blue-collar Archie Bunker types who live in the district would vote against Weprin due to his stance on gay marriage is an interesting question.  There may be a few, but, chances are, those whose vote would be swayed by Weprin's stance on gay marriage are already voting for Turner anyway because he's the more socially conservative candidate.   

Special elections are usually won on turnout.  Having an organized group behind you, like Orthodox Rabbis can't hurt.  But despite running a terrible campaign, I have a hard time seeing Weprin lose this.  Democrats have the organizational muscle and machine in NY-09 - which matters a lot.
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Eraserhead
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« Reply #156 on: September 03, 2011, 02:12:09 AM »

Weprin will win. It will not be close but it will be "closer than it should be".
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #157 on: September 03, 2011, 05:52:24 AM »

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[/quote]There is also more to Orthodox Jewry than the people in traditional dress who vote as a bloc. Not every Jew who doesn't is some Secular Jewish liberal.

Just wanted to put that out there.
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NY Jew
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« Reply #158 on: September 03, 2011, 08:18:04 PM »

he said I was "hiding behind religion" you said I was against them to Judaism thus is the difference he was attacking me for my Judaism thus earning the anti semite title.

"hiding behind religion" is a way of attacking you and not the religion.
well when I'm following my religion and he attacks me for that I'm 100 percent sure that he's anti semtic (which means to me (if you want to give me a racial thing then I guess the Crusaders and Inquisitors weren't anti Semetic) people who hate jews for following Judaism)
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Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #159 on: September 03, 2011, 08:24:53 PM »

he said I was "hiding behind religion" you said I was against them to Judaism thus is the difference he was attacking me for my Judaism thus earning the anti semite title.

"hiding behind religion" is a way of attacking you and not the religion.
well when I'm following my religion and he attacks me for that I'm 100 percent sure that he's anti semtic (which means to me (if you want to give me a racial thing then I guess the Crusaders and Inquisitors weren't anti Semetic) people who hate jews for following Judaism)


Yeah, because the vast majority of Jews who aren't homophobes are clearly misguided and only bigots like you are in possession of the absolute truth.

Go get a life kid.
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NY Jew
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« Reply #160 on: September 03, 2011, 08:28:18 PM »

Based off what exactly??  Gay marriage vote or not, Turner was likely to get the Orthodox vote and win the Brooklyn portion of the district

Btw, the district has more than just Orthodox Jews, Werpin leads among Jewish voters.

NY-09 has more than just Jews, too.  It's the non-Hispanic white vote sink in Southeast Brooklyn and Southern Queens, largely owing its shape and demographic makeup to the shapes of the Brooklyn and Queens VRA African-American and Hispanic districts.   The district includes substantial Italian and Irish-American neighborhoods as well.   As someone noted earlier in the thread, it's arguably the most New York of NYC's congressional districts, with the lowest percentage of residents born in a US state other than the district's state of any Congressional district in the country (though it has a large share of foreign-born residents).

Whether the blue-collar Archie Bunker types who live in the district would vote against Weprin due to his stance on gay marriage is an interesting question.  There may be a few, but, chances are, those whose vote would be swayed by Weprin's stance on gay marriage are already voting for Turner anyway because he's the more socially conservative candidate.   

Special elections are usually won on turnout.  Having an organized group behind you, like Orthodox Rabbis can't hurt.  But despite running a terrible campaign, I have a hard time seeing Weprin lose this.  Democrats have the organizational muscle and machine in NY-09 - which matters a lot.

I agree with you on the facts but the fact that the blue-collar Archie Bunker types (which don't really exist in NY anymore but I'll substitute it for Irish or Italian Archie Bunker types) in this election are now pretty much solid Republicans (having a Irish as a candidate also helps a little) there pretty much irrelevant The largest swing vote in this district and the one that needs to vote Republican for this election to be one will is being decided based upon marriage redefinition makes my statement true if Turner wins by a combination of the different Conservative elements in this district.
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NY Jew
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« Reply #161 on: September 03, 2011, 08:34:43 PM »

he said I was "hiding behind religion" you said I was against them to Judaism thus is the difference he was attacking me for my Judaism thus earning the anti semite title.

"hiding behind religion" is a way of attacking you and not the religion.
well when I'm following my religion and he attacks me for that I'm 100 percent sure that he's anti semtic (which means to me (if you want to give me a racial thing then I guess the Crusaders and Inquisitors weren't anti Semetic) people who hate jews for following Judaism)


Yeah, because the vast majority of Jews who aren't homophobes are clearly misguided and only bigots like you are in possession of the absolute truth.

Go get a life kid.

and the vast majority of American Jews don't follow any of the basic tenants (sabbath, Holidays, Kosher ext.) of Judaism and even more so even any 5 year old Orthodox child most likely knows much more about Judaism then your average American Jew In fact most of them can't even read hebrew. 
So what they think is 100% irrelevant to anything.

so keep your antisemitism out of blogs of about a NYC election
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« Reply #162 on: September 03, 2011, 08:41:41 PM »

So what they think is 100% irrelevant to anything.

Excuse me?  I'm Jewish, I don't keep Kosher or the Sabbath (fully, at least), and I damn well beg to differ.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #163 on: September 03, 2011, 08:46:41 PM »

Once again, a heavy hint to cut it out.
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NY Jew
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« Reply #164 on: September 03, 2011, 08:51:16 PM »

So what they think is 100% irrelevant to anything.

Excuse me?  I'm Jewish, I don't keep Kosher or the Sabbath (fully, at least), and I damn well beg to differ.
I'm not saying as a person your irrelevant, rather I'm saying that your opinion about Judaism's position about gay marriage is irrelevant.

to say that someone who follows their religion is hiding behind their religion on an issue like marriage redefinition because the vast majority of Jews are in favor of marriage redefinition I have to point out that the vast majority of Jews opinion about what Judaism's view point on a subject is is irrelevant because if it was I would also violate Shabbos and eat non Kosher.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #165 on: September 03, 2011, 08:51:39 PM »

Anyways, as to the by-election... my general view remains the same. This is (or ought to be) a safe seat. End of. So losing it would be a big fycking blow, no matter what bollocks could be spun about the humiliating circumstances or the grossly exaggerated importance of the Hasidic vote.

Of course, safe seats are often lost in by-elections. And a big contributing factor is often (though not always) a poor choice of candidate. And, well... yeah. So, we'll see.
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NY Jew
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« Reply #166 on: September 03, 2011, 09:08:30 PM »

Anyways, as to the by-election... my general view remains the same. This is (or ought to be) a safe seat. End of. So losing it would be a big fycking blow, no matter what bollocks could be spun about the humiliating circumstances or the grossly exaggerated importance of the Hasidic vote.

Of course, safe seats are often lost in by-elections. And a big contributing factor is often (though not always) a poor choice of candidate. And, well... yeah. So, we'll see.
the orthodox vote here is mostly litvish and sefardi not hasidic (just as religious though (if not more so))
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danny
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« Reply #167 on: September 03, 2011, 09:37:45 PM »

he said I was "hiding behind religion" you said I was against them to Judaism thus is the difference he was attacking me for my Judaism thus earning the anti semite title.

"hiding behind religion" is a way of attacking you and not the religion.
well when I'm following my religion and he attacks me for that I'm 100 percent sure that he's anti semtic (which means to me (if you want to give me a racial thing then I guess the Crusaders and Inquisitors weren't anti Semetic) people who hate jews for following Judaism)

The crusaders and Inquisitors actually persecuted people because they were Jewish, PX simply disagreed with a certain opinion which is part of Judaism (and you for following it), an opinion with for which he would oppose other religions with the same opinion.
If not agreeing with part of Jewish law/scripture would make one anti-Semitic than that would make any non-Jew and many Jews Anti-Semitic, with me proudly among them.
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Eraserhead
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« Reply #168 on: September 03, 2011, 09:40:30 PM »

Anyways, as to the by-election... my general view remains the same. This is (or ought to be) a safe seat. End of. So losing it would be a big fycking blow, no matter what bollocks could be spun about the humiliating circumstances or the grossly exaggerated importance of the Hasidic vote.

Of course, safe seats are often lost in by-elections. And a big contributing factor is often (though not always) a poor choice of candidate. And, well... yeah. So, we'll see.
the orthodox vote here is mostly litvish and sefardi not hasidic (just as religious though (if not more so))

Do you offer some sort of system thats weighs the religiousness of the various sects?
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NY Jew
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« Reply #169 on: September 03, 2011, 09:47:07 PM »

Anyways, as to the by-election... my general view remains the same. This is (or ought to be) a safe seat. End of. So losing it would be a big fycking blow, no matter what bollocks could be spun about the humiliating circumstances or the grossly exaggerated importance of the Hasidic vote.

Of course, safe seats are often lost in by-elections. And a big contributing factor is often (though not always) a poor choice of candidate. And, well... yeah. So, we'll see.
the orthodox vote here is mostly litvish and sefardi not hasidic (just as religious though (if not more so))

Do you offer some sort of system thats weighs the religiousness of the various sects?
my point was that where talking about litvish (Lithuanian based) and sefardi jews who are not chasidic though just as rigorously orthodox (but for example don't follow any grand rabbi)

(everything else I shouldn't have said on a general forum and was really meant only on the very off shot there are some chasidim who may happen to see that comment)
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NY Jew
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« Reply #170 on: September 03, 2011, 09:49:27 PM »

he said I was "hiding behind religion" you said I was against them to Judaism thus is the difference he was attacking me for my Judaism thus earning the anti semite title.

"hiding behind religion" is a way of attacking you and not the religion.
well when I'm following my religion and he attacks me for that I'm 100 percent sure that he's anti semtic (which means to me (if you want to give me a racial thing then I guess the Crusaders and Inquisitors weren't anti Semetic) people who hate jews for following Judaism)

The crusaders and Inquisitors actually persecuted people because they were Jewish, PX simply disagreed with a certain opinion which is part of Judaism (and you for following it), an opinion with for which he would oppose other religions with the same opinion.
If not agreeing with part of Jewish law/scripture would make one anti-Semitic than that would make any non-Jew and many Jews Anti-Semitic, with me proudly among them.

to attack someone because of that belief or to say that "I'm hiding behind my religion" would be anti semtic.

also The crusaders and Inquisitors actually persecuted people because they were Jewish (you forgot this part) and would not abandon their faith
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benconstine
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« Reply #171 on: September 03, 2011, 10:36:14 PM »

I'm not saying as a person your irrelevant, rather I'm saying that your opinion about Judaism's position about gay marriage is irrelevant.

I know what your point was, and I'm still saying I damn well beg to differ.
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Keystone Phil
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« Reply #172 on: September 04, 2011, 12:12:32 AM »


Uh, this isn't the United Kingdom. Once again, a heavy hint to cut it out.
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Meeker
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« Reply #173 on: September 04, 2011, 01:29:04 AM »

There's an entire board where you can debate the merits of the varying forms of Judaism. Please take the discussion there.
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #174 on: September 04, 2011, 09:59:33 AM »

There's an entire board where you can debate the merits of the varying forms of Judaism. Please take the discussion there.

This
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