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NY Jew
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« Reply #875 on: September 18, 2011, 12:52:01 pm »
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Let's not pretend that Orthodox Jews "believing Obama is anti-Semitic" isn't just a projection and proactive defense of their own issues with Obama's ethnic and racial background.

I guess when Orthodox Jews voted for Alan West we were also being racist
considering the peanut farmer is even more widely considered an anti semite I wonder how you'll spin that.
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« Reply #876 on: September 18, 2011, 12:56:47 pm »
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I'm still not convinced the orthodox Jew vote itself would have turned this district. What % of the district are they again? The catholic vote is more interesting imho. Not to say gay marriage didn't have an impact with them, but perhaps the general state of the economy and the resulting approval of Obama because of it had something to do with it?

Not to mention gay marriage is not an issue for the Republicans to run on nationwide. Well, maybe 2012 will be the last cycle for that. Beyond that you will start to get majorly f'ed. Trust me.

The key point is that McCain already won over 90% of the Orthodox Jewish vote in this district in 2008. They couldn't be the deciding factor because they didn't have any more room to swing (although I suppose there might have been a turnout differential). Any talk on here of marriage is just noise.
because if not for the marriage Weprin would have won the Orthodox vote big putting him
if you can't understand this basic fact your totally clueless into the Orthodox vote.
and if you except that the Orthodox vote would have voted for Weprin but didn't because of marriage but still can't figure out how marriage effected the election then I suggest you see someone to help you with basic logic and math.
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Nathan
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« Reply #877 on: September 18, 2011, 09:37:05 pm »
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the reason I'm so confident that this is so because with out Weprin's homo problems there is 0 chance Turner wins the Orthodox vote.

Quote
homo problems

Yup, no slavering hatred and sin here, just the shining love of God. Yessirree.
when they decide to do teshuva we'll talk right now there in a mereda against HKB.
(it wasn't just the marriage that lost him votes it was also his speech and parade marches)
and just to let you know if this district is gerrymandered you will do to the democratic party what Coollidge did to the Republican party (which crystallized under that Roosevelt yemach shemo)

...which...which aspect of what Coolidge did to the Republican Party? Do you mean leading it to one EC landslide and setting up another? Indirectly leading to a crushing defeat later on with my economic policies? Making it more conservative somehow? And what does any of this have to do with the shape or demographics of NY-09?

While I can parse most of what you're saying, your random use of Hebrew nouns (other than teshuva, which should be obvious to anyone) also isn't helping your case, as it makes you seem insular.

1. Coolidge lost the Jewish vote for the Republicans (and also lost many Catholics) (look it up if you don't know why)
2. the message was specifically for you and not meant that everyone should understand it. (and you supposedly know Hebrew, which I know see isn't true so don't lecture me on the bible again)

1. Okay, I'll bite. I'd love to hear your interpretation of the politics of the 1920s.
2. That's asinine. We're on a public forum and you're making a fool of yourself. (I never claimed to be fluent in Hebrew, just that I could more-or-less make out what you were saying because the vocabulary you were using was not exactly advanced. Okay, here, you want to play rough? Give me an analysis of the Parable of the Labourers in the Vineyard. A GOOD analysis. In Koine Greek. Now.)
« Last Edit: September 18, 2011, 09:40:46 pm by Nathan »Logged

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« Reply #878 on: September 19, 2011, 12:24:24 am »
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I'm still not convinced the orthodox Jew vote itself would have turned this district. What % of the district are they again? The catholic vote is more interesting imho. Not to say gay marriage didn't have an impact with them, but perhaps the general state of the economy and the resulting approval of Obama because of it had something to do with it?

Not to mention gay marriage is not an issue for the Republicans to run on nationwide. Well, maybe 2012 will be the last cycle for that. Beyond that you will start to get majorly f'ed. Trust me.

The key point is that McCain already won over 90% of the Orthodox Jewish vote in this district in 2008. They couldn't be the deciding factor because they didn't have any more room to swing (although I suppose there might have been a turnout differential). Any talk on here of marriage is just noise.
because if not for the marriage Weprin would have won the Orthodox vote big putting him
if you can't understand this basic fact your totally clueless into the Orthodox vote.
and if you except that the Orthodox vote would have voted for Weprin but didn't because of marriage but still can't figure out how marriage effected the election then I suggest you see someone to help you with basic logic and math.

There is a bit of logic here. The Presidency has the greatest influence on foreign policy, the Congress some, and state offices very little. If Israel is priority #1, priority #1 will sway the Presidential vote, priorities #2,#3... will balance the Congressional vote, and priorities #2,#3... will dictate the state office vote.
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« Reply #879 on: September 19, 2011, 10:33:42 am »
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Quote
1. Okay, I'll bite. I'd love to hear your interpretation of the politics of the 1920s.
KKK and 1924 Immigration bill
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NY Jew
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« Reply #880 on: September 19, 2011, 10:49:24 am »
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I'm still not convinced the orthodox Jew vote itself would have turned this district. What % of the district are they again? The catholic vote is more interesting imho. Not to say gay marriage didn't have an impact with them, but perhaps the general state of the economy and the resulting approval of Obama because of it had something to do with it?

Not to mention gay marriage is not an issue for the Republicans to run on nationwide. Well, maybe 2012 will be the last cycle for that. Beyond that you will start to get majorly f'ed. Trust me.

The key point is that McCain already won over 90% of the Orthodox Jewish vote in this district in 2008. They couldn't be the deciding factor because they didn't have any more room to swing (although I suppose there might have been a turnout differential). Any talk on here of marriage is just noise.
because if not for the marriage Weprin would have won the Orthodox vote big putting him
if you can't understand this basic fact your totally clueless into the Orthodox vote.
and if you except that the Orthodox vote would have voted for Weprin but didn't because of marriage but still can't figure out how marriage effected the election then I suggest you see someone to help you with basic logic and math.

There is a bit of logic here. The Presidency has the greatest influence on foreign policy, the Congress some, and state offices very little. If Israel is priority #1, priority #1 will sway the Presidential vote, priorities #2,#3... will balance the Congressional vote, and priorities #2,#3... will dictate the state office vote.
not the way I broke it down
1. is the reason why Orthodox Jews voted for Turner over Weprin is gay marriage (very easy to prove if you want to look at any Orthodox Web site on this election, speak to may Orthodox Jews is in this district, read the Orthodox Newspapers that went for Turner, find out why prominent Orthodox Jews endorsed Turner, look at the polling data that breaks down Orthodox Jews into a separate category)
and now point 2 which is where I said it was illogical
and if you except that the Orthodox vote would have voted for Weprin but didn't because of marriage but still can't figure out how marriage effected the election then I suggest you see someone to help you with basic logic and math.
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Nathan
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« Reply #881 on: September 19, 2011, 02:12:15 pm »
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Quote
1. Okay, I'll bite. I'd love to hear your interpretation of the politics of the 1920s.
KKK and 1924 Immigration bill

1924 Immigration bill, yes, but the Democrats were much more in the pocket of the KKK than the Republicans were.

I'm still not convinced the orthodox Jew vote itself would have turned this district. What % of the district are they again? The catholic vote is more interesting imho. Not to say gay marriage didn't have an impact with them, but perhaps the general state of the economy and the resulting approval of Obama because of it had something to do with it?

Not to mention gay marriage is not an issue for the Republicans to run on nationwide. Well, maybe 2012 will be the last cycle for that. Beyond that you will start to get majorly f'ed. Trust me.

The key point is that McCain already won over 90% of the Orthodox Jewish vote in this district in 2008. They couldn't be the deciding factor because they didn't have any more room to swing (although I suppose there might have been a turnout differential). Any talk on here of marriage is just noise.
because if not for the marriage Weprin would have won the Orthodox vote big putting him
if you can't understand this basic fact your totally clueless into the Orthodox vote.
and if you except that the Orthodox vote would have voted for Weprin but didn't because of marriage but still can't figure out how marriage effected the election then I suggest you see someone to help you with basic logic and math.

There is a bit of logic here. The Presidency has the greatest influence on foreign policy, the Congress some, and state offices very little. If Israel is priority #1, priority #1 will sway the Presidential vote, priorities #2,#3... will balance the Congressional vote, and priorities #2,#3... will dictate the state office vote.
not the way I broke it down
1. is the reason why Orthodox Jews voted for Turner over Weprin is gay marriage (very easy to prove if you want to look at any Orthodox Web site on this election, speak to may Orthodox Jews is in this district, read the Orthodox Newspapers that went for Turner, find out why prominent Orthodox Jews endorsed Turner, look at the polling data that breaks down Orthodox Jews into a separate category)
and now point 2 which is where I said it was illogical
and if you except that the Orthodox vote would have voted for Weprin but didn't because of marriage but still can't figure out how marriage effected the election then I suggest you see someone to help you with basic logic and math.


This exchange puts me in the uncomfortable position of defending Bob, but his analysis has the benefit of being grammatically coherent. Do you even realise that he's not actually disagreeing with you?
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NY Jew
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« Reply #882 on: September 19, 2011, 03:37:01 pm »
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1. Okay, I'll bite. I'd love to hear your interpretation of the politics of the 1920s.
KKK and 1924 Immigration bill

1924 Immigration bill, yes, but the Democrats were much more in the pocket of the KKK than the Republicans were.


Coolidge, and Davis specifically (keep in mind that the presidents position is mistakenly taken for the parties even in are own times)
« Last Edit: September 19, 2011, 03:43:41 pm by NY Jew »Logged
NY Jew
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« Reply #883 on: September 19, 2011, 03:39:26 pm »
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This exchange puts me in the uncomfortable position of defending Bob, but his analysis has the benefit of being grammatically coherent. Do you even realise that he's not actually disagreeing with you?
he gave him to much credit
« Last Edit: September 19, 2011, 03:52:59 pm by NY Jew »Logged
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« Reply #884 on: September 19, 2011, 04:29:41 pm »
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Quote
1. Okay, I'll bite. I'd love to hear your interpretation of the politics of the 1920s.
KKK and 1924 Immigration bill

1924 Immigration bill, yes, but the Democrats were much more in the pocket of the KKK than the Republicans were.


Coolidge, and Davis specifically (keep in mind that the presidents position is mistakenly taken for the parties even in are own times)

If you're interested in the Democrats' positioning at this time I'd highly recommend a book titled The 103rd Ballot: Democrats and the Disaster in Madison Square Garden, about the 1924 DNC. It's considerably more complicated than just Davis, although I agree with you that Coolidge sure as Hell didn't do sh**t for Jews or Catholics (or much of anybody, really; then again he also didn't do much stuff against anybody in particular, so...).
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His idea of freedom is - it is a bad thing and should be stopped at all costs.

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NY Jew
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« Reply #885 on: September 19, 2011, 05:33:58 pm »
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Quote
1. Okay, I'll bite. I'd love to hear your interpretation of the politics of the 1920s.
KKK and 1924 Immigration bill

1924 Immigration bill, yes, but the Democrats were much more in the pocket of the KKK than the Republicans were.


Coolidge, and Davis specifically (keep in mind that the presidents position is mistakenly taken for the parties even in are own times)

If you're interested in the Democrats' positioning at this time I'd highly recommend a book titled The 103rd Ballot: Democrats and the Disaster in Madison Square Garden, about the 1924 DNC. It's considerably more complicated than just Davis, although I agree with you that Coolidge sure as Hell didn't do sh**t for Jews or Catholics (or much of anybody, really; then again he also didn't do much stuff against anybody in particular, so...).
the 1924 immigration bill was against Jews and Catholics.

I understand it's more "complicated than just Davis" but the effect of his condemning the Klan and Coolidge not had a damning effect on ethnic whites voting Republican for years afterwards.
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Nathan
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« Reply #886 on: September 19, 2011, 05:36:16 pm »
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Quote
1. Okay, I'll bite. I'd love to hear your interpretation of the politics of the 1920s.
KKK and 1924 Immigration bill

1924 Immigration bill, yes, but the Democrats were much more in the pocket of the KKK than the Republicans were.


Coolidge, and Davis specifically (keep in mind that the presidents position is mistakenly taken for the parties even in are own times)

If you're interested in the Democrats' positioning at this time I'd highly recommend a book titled The 103rd Ballot: Democrats and the Disaster in Madison Square Garden, about the 1924 DNC. It's considerably more complicated than just Davis, although I agree with you that Coolidge sure as Hell didn't do sh**t for Jews or Catholics (or much of anybody, really; then again he also didn't do much stuff against anybody in particular, so...).
the 1924 immigration bill was against Jews and Catholics.

I understand it's more "complicated than just Davis" but the effect of his condemning the Klan and Coolidge not had a damning effect on ethnic whites voting Republican for years afterwards.

All right, I'll concede this point. Though I don't even remember how it came up.
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NY Jew
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« Reply #887 on: September 19, 2011, 05:50:12 pm »
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Quote
1. Okay, I'll bite. I'd love to hear your interpretation of the politics of the 1920s.
KKK and 1924 Immigration bill

1924 Immigration bill, yes, but the Democrats were much more in the pocket of the KKK than the Republicans were.


Coolidge, and Davis specifically (keep in mind that the presidents position is mistakenly taken for the parties even in are own times)

If you're interested in the Democrats' positioning at this time I'd highly recommend a book titled The 103rd Ballot: Democrats and the Disaster in Madison Square Garden, about the 1924 DNC. It's considerably more complicated than just Davis, although I agree with you that Coolidge sure as Hell didn't do sh**t for Jews or Catholics (or much of anybody, really; then again he also didn't do much stuff against anybody in particular, so...).
the 1924 immigration bill was against Jews and Catholics.

I understand it's more "complicated than just Davis" but the effect of his condemning the Klan and Coolidge not had a damning effect on ethnic whites voting Republican for years afterwards.

All right, I'll concede this point. Though I don't even remember how it came up.

here's how
Quote
and just to let you know if this district is gerrymandered you will do to the democratic party what Coollidge did to the Republican party (which crystallized under Roosevelt)
« Last Edit: September 19, 2011, 05:53:18 pm by NY Jew »Logged
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« Reply #888 on: September 19, 2011, 06:48:07 pm »
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Quote
1. Okay, I'll bite. I'd love to hear your interpretation of the politics of the 1920s.
KKK and 1924 Immigration bill

1924 Immigration bill, yes, but the Democrats were much more in the pocket of the KKK than the Republicans were.


Coolidge, and Davis specifically (keep in mind that the presidents position is mistakenly taken for the parties even in are own times)

If you're interested in the Democrats' positioning at this time I'd highly recommend a book titled The 103rd Ballot: Democrats and the Disaster in Madison Square Garden, about the 1924 DNC. It's considerably more complicated than just Davis, although I agree with you that Coolidge sure as Hell didn't do sh**t for Jews or Catholics (or much of anybody, really; then again he also didn't do much stuff against anybody in particular, so...).
the 1924 immigration bill was against Jews and Catholics.

I understand it's more "complicated than just Davis" but the effect of his condemning the Klan and Coolidge not had a damning effect on ethnic whites voting Republican for years afterwards.

All right, I'll concede this point. Though I don't even remember how it came up.

here's how
Quote
and just to let you know if this district is gerrymandered you will do to the democratic party what Coollidge did to the Republican party (which crystallized under Roosevelt)

Ah, yes.

Here's a question for you: Don't you also argue that it's gerrymandered already?
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« Reply #889 on: September 19, 2011, 07:02:18 pm »
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Here's a question for you: Don't you also argue that it's gerrymandered already?
of course the Jewish Communities in Brooklyn are the most gerrymandered areas in the country but right now most people don't realize how bad it is if this is done it would be broadcast across the country.



In short If this district is eliminated then Jews across the country will rebel against the dems big Because this will be seen as targeting Jews which it is (the ones who will be furious over this one are growing rapidly)
« Last Edit: September 19, 2011, 07:07:08 pm by NY Jew »Logged
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« Reply #890 on: September 19, 2011, 07:51:38 pm »
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Here's a question for you: Don't you also argue that it's gerrymandered already?
]

In short If this district is eliminated then Jews across the country will rebel against the dems big Because this will be seen as targeting Jews which it is (the ones who will be furious over this one are growing rapidly)


umm..this district being eliminated would lead to a district with a higher concentration of Jews than NY-9 most likely, and better representation

also -- wouldn't be Democrats, it'd be a bipartisan agreement between the GOP and Dems
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« Reply #891 on: September 19, 2011, 08:48:32 pm »
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Here's a question for you: Don't you also argue that it's gerrymandered already?
]

In short If this district is eliminated then Jews across the country will rebel against the dems big Because this will be seen as targeting Jews which it is (the ones who will be furious over this one are growing rapidly)


umm..this district being eliminated would lead to a district with a higher concentration of Jews than NY-9 most likely, and better representation

also -- wouldn't be Democrats, it'd be a bipartisan agreement between the GOP and Dems
depends how it's done destroying Turner with out ungerrymandering Brooklyn people will be furious.
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« Reply #892 on: September 19, 2011, 08:50:42 pm »
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Here's a question for you: Don't you also argue that it's gerrymandered already?
]

In short If this district is eliminated then Jews across the country will rebel against the dems big Because this will be seen as targeting Jews which it is (the ones who will be furious over this one are growing rapidly)


umm..this district being eliminated would lead to a district with a higher concentration of Jews than NY-9 most likely, and better representation

also -- wouldn't be Democrats, it'd be a bipartisan agreement between the GOP and Dems
depends how it's done destroying Turner with out ungerrymandering Brooklyn people will be furious.
not if Coumo vetos what ever the Republicans put forth
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« Reply #893 on: September 19, 2011, 09:36:30 pm »
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I challenge you to draw a situation where NY-9 is gone that divides the Orthodox Brooklyn vote more than it's currently divided.

I'm not sure if it's possible, it certainly seems quite difficult at the very least.
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NY Jew
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« Reply #894 on: September 19, 2011, 10:21:35 pm »
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I challenge you to draw a situation where NY-9 is gone that divides the Orthodox Brooklyn vote more than it's currently divided.

I'm not sure if it's possible, it certainly seems quite difficult at the very least.
It's possible in Brooklyn but not much but
right now Weiner's seat includes the Orthodox Jewish communties in Queens and splitting those off will destroy both communities
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« Reply #895 on: October 04, 2011, 11:12:47 am »
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the final results are in and Turner won by 3686 votes
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« Reply #896 on: October 04, 2011, 01:05:05 pm »
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dedicated to all my critics (hope you have fun tomorrow, because the Jewish Community will be happy though we would have been much happier if this election was not necessary (and I wasn't referring to Weiner's problems (though that too)))
just to repost some of the comments that were said after I made my prediction on August 11th that this will be won based on marriage redefinition (now even a Philip Goldfeder (Orthodox politician running for the 23 Assembly district) is trying to separate him self from Weprin based on that)


Careful you don't go throwing up on yourself with all that spinning you're doing there.

That's the third time you post this nonsense. I think we got the message, so please take your idiocy and get the hell out of here.


((((()((())(((

More funnies. Great to see who was correct every step of the way.

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
« Last Edit: October 04, 2011, 01:13:08 pm by krazen1211 »Logged
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« Reply #897 on: October 04, 2011, 03:36:48 pm »
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You've got a problem, bud
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« Reply #898 on: October 04, 2011, 07:51:50 pm »
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Behavior of that sort doesn't do anyone any favours.

---

Anyways, that's quite a bit closer, right? The same thing happened in this district at the last normal election. So... if his election had been a tad closer, would it have bee possible for a wrong winner to declare victory and get seated (I think that's the American term)?
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« Reply #899 on: October 05, 2011, 10:36:10 pm »
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here are some sampling of how much Turner won by in some Orthodox areas (in Brooklyn I didn't do 41 and 59) (there are also other majority Orthodox Jewish EDs in Queens and also a significant amount Orthodox Jews in Brooklyn under Ave T (though not a majority))
Turner won
by 603 votes in the 44th AD (8 EDs)
by 90 votes in the 47th AD (2 EDs)
by 745 votes in the 48th AD (9 EDs)
by 1903 votes in the 45th AD in all EDs that cover ground above Ave T (25 EDs)
by 896 votes in Kew Garden Hills EDs in the 27th (12) (in the most Jewish one of all these Turner won by 251 votes)

total of all these 4237 more votes for Turner then Weprin

final results of the entire election Turner won by 3686 votes

in short there is no way that Turner Wins with out the Orthodox vote which came primarily due to marriage redefinition.

« Last Edit: October 05, 2011, 10:42:07 pm by NY Jew »Logged
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