Antillian Parliament Thread
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Author Topic: Antillian Parliament Thread  (Read 13152 times)
Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #50 on: June 29, 2011, 08:19:07 AM »

Mr Iorwerth Roberts

Mr MacPherson, the ferrymen are split between two different trade unions. If the figures that my researcher has given to me are accurate, then the largest group are members of the Transport Workers Confederation (TWC) and that the smaller group are members of the National Union of Watermen, Lightermen and Gasworkers (NUWLG). The TWC is affiliated to the SPP and I think that they could be convinced to understand any lost jobs in the ferry industry (which would certainly not shut down completely) would be replaced by better paying jobs that would come with the construction and implementation of the project. The NUWLG was one of the communist unions and while we do not have any organic links to them, I think they could also be convinced to see things from our position as well. I will also note that the bulk of the Labour Movement has long favoured this project and that it has been official FAW policy for more than twenty years.
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lilTommy
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« Reply #51 on: June 29, 2011, 09:05:52 AM »
« Edited: June 29, 2011, 11:08:17 AM by lilTommy »

Mr Bastian De Wilde

To compliment what my colleague Mr Roberts has stated; Its no secret that the Cooperatives have been actively pursuing a closer relationship with the TWC in hopes of gaining some support form the executive. Their support is not full or unanimous for this project but from our conversations support is growing.

The NUWLG is an integral part of the fabric that makes up the Cooperative Party and is more militant then the TWC for sure, and to provide the Assembly with some background our proposal for this tunnel to be strictly rail came from those discussons.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #52 on: June 29, 2011, 10:50:49 AM »

(OOC: gasworkers were people who worked in gasworks; factories that produced coal gas. Obviously there are none of them left now that we have natural gas; in the same vein Watermen and Lightermen are also redundant trades. The name is a play on the fact that union names (especially old fashioned ones) often have little to do with the workers represented by the union in question)
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lilTommy
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« Reply #53 on: June 29, 2011, 11:07:09 AM »

(OOC - I think my age is showing... thanks for the information... i will modify my statement)
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Atlas Has Shrugged
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« Reply #54 on: June 29, 2011, 01:15:51 PM »

Ian Harlow

Mr Roberts, constructing a bridge will only create more unemployment, with the loss of ferrymans jobs. Building a bridge will only provide temporary work for construction. Is it worth the permanent loss of others jobs?
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #55 on: June 29, 2011, 01:26:28 PM »

Mr Iorwerth Roberts

Once again, Mr Harlow has demonstrated that he does not understand even the most basic things about economics. A reliable connection between the islands of Antillia and Pitfarris would be a boon to the economy of the depressed Adland peninsular over the long-term. Any fool could tell him that. It would also benefit the economy of the Antillian national more generally. If Mr Harlow does not understand this then he is a disgrace to the national legislature on account of his stupidity as much as his reprehensible views...

Angry exchanges on the floor of the House, cries of 'ORDER' from the Speaker

...his reprehensible views, views that are opposed to the principles upon which this great nation was founded. Mr Speaker, the only way that we are going to drag the economy of Peterford out of its eternal slump will be if we can direct investment and employment to the region. We will have a better chance of achieving this if there is a direct link between the region and the comparatively thriving island of Pitfarris which, as I do not need to remind the House, is also a direct link to our neighbour to the east.
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« Reply #56 on: June 29, 2011, 10:29:57 PM »

Ian Harlow


Mr Roberts. Your idea of "benefiting" the economy is "screwing over" some people in favor of another. The Ferryman of this island have survived through good and bad economies, much like our nation. The employment created by this idiotic project is only short term, and is a weak promise at best.

More Angry exchanges on the floor

Whats best for Pittfarris is not whats best for Antilla, and vice verse. The ferryman have served as middleman for our islands, and have provided employment to people of both islands. If anything is misguided, it is Mr Roberts views, not mine.

Loud cheers in support and opposition.
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lilTommy
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« Reply #57 on: June 30, 2011, 10:24:40 AM »

Mr Bastian De Wilde

This Assembly knows quite well that the Patriots and Mr Harlow have never found a government project they DID like or they WOULD support... the party's sheer lack of fundamental understanding of how economies can run continues to surprise no one.

What saved us in the 30's was government infrastructure projects and they continue to be fiscally sound economic mains, sharks if you will, attracting remoras or other business in this case who feed off of these projects. The benefits will be felt in the construction industry, the rail industry, the local services economies of Peterford and Pitfarris... and yes we understand that the ferrymen might suffer some, but as you said "they have survived through the good and the bad" and this is neither for them. This is an opportunity to improve quality, look for efficiencies and diversify. We see this and both the Unions are starting to see this... can the Patriots take off their blinders to see this?

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Mopsus
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« Reply #58 on: June 30, 2011, 11:06:07 AM »

Mr Alexander Burke

If the concern is that this bill will cause ferrymen of the island to become unemployed, would the logical conclusion not be to pass an aid package of some sort? One which compensates unemployed ferrymen for lost wages, and provides them with job training so that they might go back into work as soon as possible?
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« Reply #59 on: July 02, 2011, 08:12:15 PM »

Ian Harlow


If anyone has made any sense in this debate, it is Mr. Burke. At least he puts the people above the economic "needs" of the nation, and for that, I commend him.
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #60 on: July 06, 2011, 02:50:00 PM »

Mr. David Valentine

Certainly would my colleagues agree that there are other areas worth pursuing other than bridge construction. What about new high speed rail or the fixing and building of new highways. Certainly those ferryman would not be in imminent danger if we tackled such projects first and in the meantime we may come up with a suitable plan on how to compensate them later? 
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #61 on: July 06, 2011, 07:00:40 PM »

Mr Iorwerth Roberts

Only a few hundred people are directly employed by the Firth Ferries Corporation (which, of course, is owned by the Government of Antillia). Even at peak time (when many agency workers are laid on) total employment related to the ferries is never higher than about one and a half thousand, including back office staff and management. Work on the construction of a bridge or a tunnel (and given the considerations of weather and so on a tunnel would be preferable) would create thousands of jobs, while better links between Peterford and Pitfarris would create perhaps tens of thousands more, and most of those in Peterford which members will be aware is the poorest part of our archipelago and suffers from extremely high rates of unemployment.

Gentlemen, we have been an independent nation for over sixty years. Despite that, there is no year-round connection between the islands of Antillia and Pitfarris. While the ferrymen do great work in keep open the passage during the winter months, ever year there are days (often weeks) when the ferries cannot operate due to storms. How is this acceptable in a modern economy? Moreover, the great traditions of the ferrymen will not end with the construction of a road/rail link between the two islands. There will be cutbacks, of course, but not closure. During the summer in particular, there will be great demand for ferry trips, especially if they are developed as a heritage industry, perhaps with a few old fashioned steamers, such as the ones I can just about remember as a child, added to the fleet even as many newer boats are scrapped.
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Vazdul (Formerly Chairman of the Communist Party of Ontario)
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« Reply #62 on: July 07, 2011, 12:32:34 AM »

Johannes Overgaard (SPP), MP for Bronseland

"I agree that a bridge or tunnel connecting mainland Antilla with Pitfarris would be beneficial. While there are concerns that the ferry industry may suffer, those concerns must be balanced against the greater good of our nation at large. A stable, all-weather transportation link between Pitfarris and Peterford would provide great economic benefits to the people of both regions. As it stands now, whether or not a person in Pitfarris can conduct business on mainland Antilla (or vice-versa) is contingent on the weather. In maintaining the ferry industry as the only means of transport between the islands, we are perhaps contributing to the economic hardship of citizens of Pitfarris and Peterford alike.

My esteemed colleague from Peterford is also correct in his assessment that the ferry industry would still be in demand. I contend that if we were to subsidize the ferry industry, it would promote tourism and even further increase the economic benefits to Pitfarris and Peterford."
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #63 on: July 07, 2011, 10:49:18 AM »

Mr David Valentine

I certainly agree with my colleagues about the need for this bridges, but I'm looking for a way we can make an effective compromise. Possibly giving those ferrymen temporary employment working on the bridges? This is a government effort and since they will be laid off, we should make it our responsibility to provide them either work or welfare. If we want to avoid putting them on unemployment, then why not try this?
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Vazdul (Formerly Chairman of the Communist Party of Ontario)
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« Reply #64 on: July 07, 2011, 11:05:53 AM »

Johannes Overgaard (SPP), MP for Bronseland

"That is still only a temporary solution, Mr. Valentine. I think Mr. Roberts was on to something when he suggested promotion of the ferrymen as a heritage industry. I am confident that the TWC and NUWLG would end their opposition if we promised to do so.  It would also promote tourism in the area and bring an even greater economic benefit than the bridge alone would."
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lilTommy
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« Reply #65 on: July 07, 2011, 11:11:10 AM »

Stella Bruun-Bailey
(OOC - i am going to mix it up with these two, again any opposed let me know)

I will certainly agree with my colleague that there is a need for a Tunnel... a bridge, that's all together another matter that we cant be so civil on (chuckles from the Cooperative benches) We do support Mr Valentine's approach that Ferrymen who will otherwise be left unemployed should be given preferential retraining to be able to work on the tunnel. But lets not get ourselves into a battle with the construction and trades unions. Other measures to soften the blow, so to speak, includes working with Firth Ferries and the Unions to look at early retirement packages for those most senior.
I would like to commend the SPP for its ideas in terms of directing support in to the public corporation to diversify, focus on history of our beloved Ferry's (again more work can be created by the restoration of various old steamers). Another consideration would be conversion of some ferries into cruiseliners, offering summer island cruises or expanding outside Antilla and offering ferry/cruise service to the UK and Norway.

The more we delve deep into the details, the more possibilities we can see for growth
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Atlas Has Shrugged
ChairmanSanchez
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« Reply #66 on: July 07, 2011, 12:55:56 PM »

Ian Harlow

Mrs. Bailey has raised a wonderfull idea, which I have yet heard of. Cruiseliners. Surely Cruises can be a adequate replacement to the Ferrymen, without throwing them out of work, or forcing them into another profession. The idea should be explored.
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #67 on: July 10, 2011, 04:09:40 PM »

When will the Prime Minister announce the government appointments and when may we see the creation of a legislation thread?
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Vazdul (Formerly Chairman of the Communist Party of Ontario)
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« Reply #68 on: July 10, 2011, 05:13:06 PM »

When will the Prime Minister announce the government appointments and when may we see the creation of a legislation thread?

As it seems half of the party is absent, it might be wise to wait a bit.
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Insula Dei
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« Reply #69 on: July 24, 2011, 06:03:10 PM »

I suppose the Prime Minister will present a cabinet in due time.
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Vazdul (Formerly Chairman of the Communist Party of Ontario)
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« Reply #70 on: July 24, 2011, 08:55:43 PM »

I suppose the Prime Minister will present a cabinet in due time.

He'd damn well better. We don't want to lose a confidence vote before we've even formed a government!
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #71 on: July 24, 2011, 09:37:48 PM »

I suppose the Prime Minister will present a cabinet in due time.

He'd damn well better. We don't want to lose a confidence vote before we've even formed a government!

Well, if he's not going to do it, the party should pick someone who will. We can't wait forever.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #72 on: July 24, 2011, 09:42:43 PM »

My understanding is that things were more or less sorted out a few days ago. I've done a reasonable amount to move things forward behind the scenes but won't be doing any more for a few days at least; really not in the mood at the moment. If you've serious concerns, it'd be better off to contact the man himself.
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Хahar 🤔
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« Reply #73 on: July 25, 2011, 04:31:33 AM »

Indeed. It won't be long before a government is formed.
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #74 on: July 26, 2011, 08:55:13 PM »

Indeed. It won't be long before a government is formed.

At least we're getting there. Smiley
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