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| | |-+  Why not to try something crazy?
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Author Topic: Why not to try something crazy?  (Read 540 times)
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Kalwejt
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« on: June 12, 2011, 10:48:28 am »
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Yes. With so many fruitless talks about game reform, why not to try something crazy?


Nauruan Model

An interesting hybrid between a presidential and parliamentary government.

Atlasia under Nauruan model: President is both head of state and head of government, but is responsible, just as a Prime Minister in usual parliamentary Democracy, before Senate. The Senate elects President and is free to dismiss him at any moment.

Swiss Model

Under Swiss model, the Federal Council shall serve as a Government, as well as joint head of state. Federal Council (under Atlasia it should be elected directly), shall compose an equal members, and each one shall head a certain branch of the executive power (for example, Department of External Affairs, Department of Internal Affairs, etc.)

The President shall be a presiding officer of the Council, elected among their members for one month term, on some kind of rotation basis (Council term shall be four months). The President is basically a primus inter pares.

Sammarinese Model

A role of head of state and head of Government shall be vested into a two Captain-Regents, elected for a period of four months and serving jointly. Cooperation between the two co-leaders in making decisions would be very refreshing for the game, IMO.
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ZuWo
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« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2011, 10:57:33 am »
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Interesting suggestions. The Swiss model would additionally work well with some elements of direct democracy, i.e. the possibility of constitutional initiatives and referenda for all Atlasian citizens. That would be a big reform, though. Tongue
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2011, 11:23:28 am »
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Interesting suggestions. The Swiss model would additionally work well with some elements of direct democracy, i.e. the possibility of constitutional initiatives and referenda for all Atlasian citizens. That would be a big reform, though. Tongue

I'm a big fan of direct Democracy Grin
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ZuWo
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« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2011, 11:34:07 am »
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Interesting suggestions. The Swiss model would additionally work well with some elements of direct democracy, i.e. the possibility of constitutional initiatives and referenda for all Atlasian citizens. That would be a big reform, though. Tongue

I'm a big fan of direct Democracy Grin

Nice to read that. Wink
Direct democracy would undoubtedly make matters more complicated in Atlasia, but maybe it could also lead to more interest and participation in the game.
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Yelnoc
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« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2011, 12:16:17 pm »
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How about a Westminster style government?  A prime Minister, shadow president and the like.  And then instead of a monarch, we can elect nationally a president with little real power in government (but can act as the head of their party).  Opposition can appoint shadow PM's and much fun could be had.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2011, 12:17:42 pm »
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How about a Westminster style government?  A prime Minister, shadow president and the like.  And then instead of a monarch, we can elect nationally a president with little real power in government (but can act as the head of their party).  Opposition can appoint shadow PM's and much fun could be had.

That would be excellent.

In RL, I'm a strong supporter of such parliamentary Government with President having mostly a symbolic role, like in Germany.
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Insula Dei
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« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2011, 12:19:25 pm »
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I'm all for a French model, with the President and the Senate/Assembly/whateveryoucallit elected seperately and with the President assigning a PM who needs to find a majority for his government in the Parliamentary Assembly. This way we wouldn't have to change our election dates significantly, get rid of the pointless VP and introduce a lot of new excitement into the game, with some real power for the Senators.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2011, 12:21:56 pm »
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I'm all for a French model, with the President and the Senate/Assembly/whateveryoucallit elected seperately and with the President assigning a PM who needs to find a majority for his government in the Parliamentary Assembly. This way we wouldn't have to change our election dates significantly, get rid of the pointless VP and introduce a lot of new excitement into the game, with some real power for the Senators.

Actually, the Senate is already more powerful than the Presidency.
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Scottish Robb Stark
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« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2011, 01:29:18 pm »
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All these are very interesting suggestions, but of course it will never work because people just like stupid presidentialism.

@Belgian : No. Just no. The French system is the worst among developped countries.
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22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.

"A reformist is someone who realizes that, when you bang your head on a wall, it's the head that breaks rather than the wall."

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Insula Dei
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« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2011, 01:36:33 pm »
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All these are very interesting suggestions, but of course it will never work because people just like stupid presidentialism.

@Belgian : No. Just no. The French system is the worst among developped countries.

But then this is an internet forum, and it wouldn't have to be exactly the same. I would just love cohabitation.
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Marokai Besieged
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« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2011, 01:45:27 pm »
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Game reform is such a tragic issue at this point. It's a cause that suffers from, basically, complete lack of leadership. Big parties have no incentive to push for reform, and major candidates either pay lip service to the idea and just propose little tiny things in the end, or they just kick the can down the road. It's absolutely pathetic. There are no eloquent leaders in office at this point that are actually trying to gather a consensus, one proposal at a time, to improve this game. Hell, so many people can't even step out of character and admit it is a game that we're supposed to keep fresh and interesting. We have radicals without substance or good talkers without motive.

I desperately desperately wish we had better people to choose from on this issue. Teddy is radical but suffers from complete lack of detail and Polnut is the other side of the coin, paying lip service to the notion of reform but on every single issue he has some half-assed position in the middle of just talking about things and kicking the can down the road to someone else. There's just no good choices when it comes to this stuff.

Some radical proposals, including those in this thread, are obviously interesting. But no major proposals will ever pass. It just won't happen. Whether it's due to stubbornness from people who don't realize this is a game, or large groups that torpedo certain issues purely for personal reasons, we've been down this road of radical proposals a million times, and we never get anywhere. We shouldn't even waste our time getting our hopes up.

(That was a little too depressing, I guess. Tongue I should say there are good ideas out there, I think, and ways to dramatically work within our current system to make things infinitely more interesting, but people need the courage to actually talk about them, we need actual leaders to champion them, and we need the parties to be open to risking the stability of their current power structure for the greater good.)
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« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2011, 01:49:28 pm »
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http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?board=56.0

that's why
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ilikeverin
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« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2011, 02:38:33 pm »
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Game reform is such a tragic issue at this point. It's a cause that suffers from, basically, complete lack of leadership. Big parties have no incentive to push for reform, and major candidates either pay lip service to the idea and just propose little tiny things in the end, or they just kick the can down the road. It's absolutely pathetic. There are no eloquent leaders in office at this point that are actually trying to gather a consensus, one proposal at a time, to improve this game. Hell, so many people can't even step out of character and admit it is a game that we're supposed to keep fresh and interesting. We have radicals without substance or good talkers without motive.

I desperately desperately wish we had better people to choose from on this issue. Teddy is radical but suffers from complete lack of detail and Polnut is the other side of the coin, paying lip service to the notion of reform but on every single issue he has some half-assed position in the middle of just talking about things and kicking the can down the road to someone else. There's just no good choices when it comes to this stuff.

Some radical proposals, including those in this thread, are obviously interesting. But no major proposals will ever pass. It just won't happen. Whether it's due to stubbornness from people who don't realize this is a game, or large groups that torpedo certain issues purely for personal reasons, we've been down this road of radical proposals a million times, and we never get anywhere. We shouldn't even waste our time getting our hopes up.

(That was a little too depressing, I guess. Tongue I should say there are good ideas out there, I think, and ways to dramatically work within our current system to make things infinitely more interesting, but people need the courage to actually talk about them, we need actual leaders to champion them, and we need the parties to be open to risking the stability of their current power structure for the greater good.)

O hai me two years ago Tongue
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« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2011, 03:57:21 pm »
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The truth is, if we change this into a european style government, it's death will just be accelerated. There aren't enough euros here to keep it going, and frankly we Americans are lazy and won't care to learn the new rules. Tongue
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IDS Attorney General PiT
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« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2011, 07:22:24 pm »
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The truth is, if we change this into a european style government, it's death will just be accelerated. There aren't enough euros here to keep it going, and frankly we Americans are lazy and won't care to learn the new rules. Tongue

     Yeah, I'm afraid that Europeanizing this game would kill most interest in it. May I suggest a confederated American-style government? Wink
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Marokai Besieged
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« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2011, 07:45:49 pm »
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Game reform is such a tragic issue at this point. It's a cause that suffers from, basically, complete lack of leadership. Big parties have no incentive to push for reform, and major candidates either pay lip service to the idea and just propose little tiny things in the end, or they just kick the can down the road. It's absolutely pathetic. There are no eloquent leaders in office at this point that are actually trying to gather a consensus, one proposal at a time, to improve this game. Hell, so many people can't even step out of character and admit it is a game that we're supposed to keep fresh and interesting. We have radicals without substance or good talkers without motive.

I desperately desperately wish we had better people to choose from on this issue. Teddy is radical but suffers from complete lack of detail and Polnut is the other side of the coin, paying lip service to the notion of reform but on every single issue he has some half-assed position in the middle of just talking about things and kicking the can down the road to someone else. There's just no good choices when it comes to this stuff.

Some radical proposals, including those in this thread, are obviously interesting. But no major proposals will ever pass. It just won't happen. Whether it's due to stubbornness from people who don't realize this is a game, or large groups that torpedo certain issues purely for personal reasons, we've been down this road of radical proposals a million times, and we never get anywhere. We shouldn't even waste our time getting our hopes up.

(That was a little too depressing, I guess. Tongue I should say there are good ideas out there, I think, and ways to dramatically work within our current system to make things infinitely more interesting, but people need the courage to actually talk about them, we need actual leaders to champion them, and we need the parties to be open to risking the stability of their current power structure for the greater good.)

O hai me two years ago Tongue

Sorry for not coming around sooner. Tongue
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« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2011, 08:43:10 pm »
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The fact that people are TALKING about this kind of radical reform is exactly what I hope to achieve if elected; more thought into game reform.
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ilikeverin
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« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2011, 08:57:26 pm »
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The truth is, if we change this into a european style government, it's death will just be accelerated. There aren't enough euros here to keep it going, and frankly we Americans are lazy and won't care to learn the new rules. Tongue

I don't think we've had an "American" system for seven years.

I mean, really, what is "American" about the Atlasian system?  We have a President... who's actually pretty weak.  We have a unicameral national legislature.  We have regions that aren't cookie-cutter knockoffs of each other, which pretty much have unicameral legislatures (of varying compositions, o/c) and varied executive bodies.  Our Supreme Court does almost nothing (at the moment; I've always been impressed by the caliber of the rulings, though).  To say that the Atlasian system means that new players have to learn nothing, though, is pretty much a lie.
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