Military Leaders: Pre 20th Century - Hannibal Barca is Survivor!

[Cincinnatus]

Military Leaders Throughout History: Pre 20th Century


Thutmose III             (1482-1425BC)          
Ramses the Great         (1303-1213BC)
David                     (1040-970BC)     Nominated
Tiglath-Pileser III      (745-727)              
Cyrus the Great          (600-530BC)
Darius I                (550-486 BC)       Nominated    
Pericles                 (495-429BC)            
Epaminondas              (418-326BC)            
Alexander the Great      (356-323BC)          
Pyrrhus of Epirus        (318—272BC)            
Chandragupta Maurya      (   -298BC)            
Fabius Maximus           (280-203BC)            
Qin Shi Huang            (259–210BC)                  
Scipio Africanus         (235-183BC)            
Hannibal Barca           (247-182BC)            
Julius Caesar            (100-44Bc)            


Aurelian                 (214-275)              
Alaric I                 (370-410)              
Flavius Aetius           (396-454)              
Attila the Hun           (434-453)
Clovis                     (466-511)          Nominated
Flavius Belisarius       (500-565)            
Khalid ibn al-Walid      (592–642)              
Heraclius                (610-641)              
Charles Martel           (688-741)            
Tariq ibn zeyad          (689-720)              
Charlemagne              (742-814)              

William the Conqueror    (1028-1087)            
Saladin                  (1137-1193)            
Richard the Lionheart    (1157-1199)            
Ghengis Khan             (1162-1227)  
Philip II Augustus (1165-1223)      Nominated
Alexander Nevsky  (1220-1263)      Nominated
Timur                    (1336-1405)            
Jan Žižka                (1360-1424)            

George Skanderbeg        (1405-1468)            
John Hunyadi             (1407-1456)  
Joan of Arc               (1412-1431)          Nominated
Vlad III the Impaler     (1431–1476)            
Affonso de Albuquerque   (1453-1515)          
Gonzalo de Córdoba       (1453-1515)            
Selim I                  (1470-1520)            
Francisco Pizarro        (1471-1541)
Pierre Terrail, seigneur de Bayard  (1473-1524)        Nominated
Hernán Cortés            (1485-1547)          
Suleiman I               (1494-1556)            

Oda Nobunaga             (1534-1582)
Tokugawa Ieyasu     (1543-1616)                  Nominated
Henri de La Tour d'Auvergne   (1555-1623)             Nominated
Maurice of Nassau        (1567-1625)            
Albrecht von Wallenstein (1583-1634)            
Gustavus Adolphus        (1594-1632)            
Oliver Cromwell          (1599-1658)            
Michiel de Ruyter        (1607-1676)            
Louis de Bourbon         (1621-1686)            
John Churchill           (1650-1722)            
Prince Eugene of Savoy   (1663-1736)            
Charles XII              (1682-1718)            
Nader Shah               (1688-1747)            

Frederick The Great      (1712-1786)            
Alexander Suvorov        (1729-1800)            
George Washington        (1732-1799)            
Horatio Nelson           (1758-1805)            
Napoleon Bonaparte       (1769-1821)            
1st Duke of Wellington   (1769-1852)
Simon Bolivar           (1783-1830)          Nominated
José de San Martín       (1778-1850)            
Shaka Zulu               (1786-1828)            
Winfield Scott           (1786-1866)            

Moltke the Elder         (1800-1891)            
Giuseppe Garibaldi       (1807-1882)            
Robert E. Lee            (1807-1870)            
Tecumseh Sherman         (1820-1891)            
Ulysses S. Grant         (1822–1885)            
Stonewall Jackson        (1824-1863)


Currently this list contains 65 Military leaders throughout history.  I decided to make it Pre 20th century, because the majority of us know quite a bit about WWI/WWII military leaders to fill an entire survivor.  

The first phase of this survivor will begin with nominations.  When voting begins, there will be a total of 75 Leaders, and the survivor will last approximately 30 rounds.  Thus, 10 spots remain to be filled by nomination.  Any participants are free to pick military leaders [Pre-20th century] to fill the remaining ten slots.  

The process will go as follows; Each participant is free to nominate Military leaders they feel should be included.  If a participant chooses more than one military leader, they will make obvious what preference each leader is.  This process will take 24-48 hours, depending on how many people participate.  I will take every participants first preference [but withhold my right to deny a troll], and if less than ten people vote, I will begin taking second preferences starting with the oldest posts.  If this process does not provide ten leaders, I will add ten that you probably won't want

Example:

[1]  Nathanael Greene
[2]  Sulla

[Edu]

Looks like a nice and interesting list

[1] Simon Bolivar
[2] Joan of Arc

I'm too lazy to think of more

[big bad fab]

Gret, idea, great list !

The problem with these very ambitious survivors is that, after thinking a bit, I've more than 20 additional names .

First, I must say that I'm not completely convinced by Wellington, Pizarro, Cortes and some of the 17th century, but it's your list .

As for my own ideas (and given the fact Edu has already 2 great names)...
I have 2 problems: Achilles and Sun Tzu.
Sun Tzu was a general but more known as a theoretician. And Achilles is more a mythological so I guess we can't include him.

1. David ()
2. Tokugawa Ieyasu (I think we need a Jap somewhere here)
3. Henri de La Tour d'Auvergne, viscount of Turenne (sorry, but I have a few French names, though great names)
4. Pierre Terrail, seigneur de Bayard ("Knight Bayard")
5. Darius I
6. Philip II Augustus
7. Alexander Nevsky
8. Clovis
9. Guan Yu
10. Mehmed II
11. Marcus Agrippa
12. Mithridates I
13. John III Sobieski
14. Bertrand du Guesclin
15. Wladyslaw II Jagiello
16. Yusuf Ibn Tashfin
17. Louis Davout
18. Edward III of England

I stop here. And, TBH, my first 12 are, I think, important ones; the others, I don't know in which order I should give them...
Anyway, it's already over your limit .

[Cincinnatus]

18 nominations.. Jeez, I might as well have 100 on the list

I thought about Sun Tzu, but his actually Military record is somewhat of an unknown to history.  Plus, The Mikado pointed out if I counted him, I might as well count Machiavelli as well.  Which means I should also count Clausewitz in that case.

David was on my list of potentials, right next to Joshua so I'm glad you picked him.  Cortes took a relatively small force [even if he had guns] and conquered an entire people.  I wouldn't vote him to win, but I wanted some conquistadors in there for the period.  Basically, I tried to spread it out a little bit, because I could easily have picked leaders I really liked from America, Rome, and Greece alone.  Also, thanks for recommending another Japanese [Oda Nobunaga] is the only one currently on.  I'm not as knowledgeable with Asian military leaders as the other ones, so I was hoping someone would pick them.

[big bad fab]

Oups, I have missed your Oda Nobunaga

Anyway, keep the 2 of Edu and and the first 8 of my list and it will be OK (though nr.9 to nr.12 are very interesting too !)
Unfortunately, I doubt anybody else will make proposals.

We'll see.
This post is a sort of "bump" after all .

[Cincinnatus]

The Nomination round is over.  First preferences will be given Immunity for 10 rounds.  Second preferences will be given Immunity for 5 rounds.  The last ten spots will be made up of the following:

[1] Simon Bolivar  Immune 10 Rounds
[1] David              Immune 10 Rounds
[2] Joan de Arc       Immune 5 Rounds
[2] Tokugawa Ieyasu   Immune 5 Rounds
[3] Henri de La Tour d'Auvergne
[4] Pierre Terrail, seigneur de Bayard
[5] Darius I
[6] Philip II Augustus
[7] Alexander Nevsky
[8] Clovis

[Cincinnatus]

Military Leaders Throughout History: Pre 20th Century


Thutmose III             (1482-1425BC)          
Ramses the Great         (1303-1213BC)
David                     (1040-970BC)     Immune
Tiglath-Pileser III      (745-727)              
Cyrus the Great          (600-530BC)  
Darius I                (550-486 BC)          
Pericles                 (495-429BC)            
Epaminondas              (418-326BC)            
Alexander the Great      (356-323BC)            
Pyrrhus of Epirus        (318—272BC)            
Chandragupta Maurya      (   -298BC)            
Fabius Maximus           (280-203BC)            
Qin Shi Huang            (259–210BC)                    
Scipio Africanus         (235-183BC)            
Hannibal Barca           (247-182BC)            
Julius Caesar            (100-44Bc)              


Aurelian                 (214-275)              
Alaric I                 (370-410)              
Flavius Aetius           (396-454)              
Attila the Hun           (434-453)  
Clovis                     (466-511)            
Flavius Belisarius       (500-565)              
Khalid ibn al-Walid      (592–642)              
Heraclius                (610-641)              
Charles Martel           (688-741)              
Tariq ibn zeyad          (689-720)              
Charlemagne              (742-814)              

William the Conqueror    (1028-1087)            
Saladin                  (1137-1193)            
Richard the Lionheart    (1157-1199)            
Ghengis Khan             (1162-1227)  
Philip II Augustus (1165-1223)    
Alexander Nevsky  (1220-1263)      
Timur                    (1336-1405)            
Jan Žižka                (1360-1424)            

George Skanderbeg        (1405-1468)            
John Hunyadi             (1407-1456)    
Joan of Arc               (1412-1431)          Immune
Vlad III the Impaler     (1431–1476)            
Affonso de Albuquerque   (1453-1515)          
Gonzalo de Córdoba       (1453-1515)            
Selim I                  (1470-1520)            
Francisco Pizarro        (1471-1541)
Pierre Terrail, seigneur de Bayard  (1473-1524)            
Hernán Cortés            (1485-1547)            
Suleiman I               (1494-1556)            

Oda Nobunaga             (1534-1582)
Tokugawa Ieyasu     (1543-1616)                  Immune
Henri de La Tour d'Auvergne   (1555-1623)            
Maurice of Nassau        (1567-1625)            
Albrecht von Wallenstein (1583-1634)            
Gustavus Adolphus        (1594-1632)            
Oliver Cromwell          (1599-1658)            
Michiel de Ruyter        (1607-1676)            
Louis de Bourbon         (1621-1686)            
John Churchill           (1650-1722)            
Prince Eugene of Savoy   (1663-1736)            
Charles XII              (1682-1718)            
Nader Shah               (1688-1747)            

Frederick The Great      (1712-1786)            
Alexander Suvorov        (1729-1800)            
George Washington        (1732-1799)            
Horatio Nelson           (1758-1805)            
Napoleon Bonaparte       (1769-1821)            
1st Duke of Wellington   (1769-1852)
Simon Bolivar           (1783-1830)          Immune
José de San Martín       (1778-1850)            
Shaka Zulu               (1786-1828)            
Winfield Scott           (1786-1866)            

Moltke the Elder         (1800-1891)            
Giuseppe Garibaldi       (1807-1882)            
Robert E. Lee            (1807-1870)            
Tecumseh Sherman         (1820-1891)            
Ulysses S. Grant         (1822–1885)            
Stonewall Jackson        (1824-1863)



You can't edit your votes.  The Leader that is closest to being eliminated during a round (has the fourth most points) will have Immunity the next.  In the case of a tie, the earliest voter of the round in question (excluding myself), will choose between the Leaders tied.  

Round 1

In the first round you can cast the following eliminating votes: (7-5-3-2), or (10-5), or (12).  You have 4 points to keep a single leader (4), or to split (2-2), or (3-1).  We will eliminate 3 Leaders.

    

[homelycooking]

7 George Washington (a great leader, but a very average military commander)
5 Francisco Pizarro
3 Vlad III the Impaler
2 Albrecht von Wallenstein
 
EDIT: Forgot the keep votes.
2 Pyrrhus of Epirus
2 George Skanderbeg

[Hans-im-Glück]

Eliminate:
10  Winfield Scott
5  Vlad III the Impaler

Keep:
3  Albrecht von Wallenstein
1  Francisco Pizarro

[Cincinnatus]

Eliminate:
10   Pizarro
5     Washington

Keep:
4  Winfield Scott

[big bad fab]

Eliminate
7 Pizarro
5 Vlad III
3 Washington
2 Wellington

Keep
3 Lee
1 Fabius Maximus

[Edu]

12 for George Washington

Keep
2 for Wellington
2 for Winfield Scott

[Cincinnatus]

Most Points:  George Washington - 27

Regarded as the leader of the American Revolution, and the "Father of his country," George Washington was the Commander of the continental army.  It is said that as a fully uniformed George Washington was being praised by John Adams, he was humble and noticeably weary of his ability to perform such a task as defying British rule.  To the historians that have written about him, this was his way.  Privately he sought grandeur with great ambition, and through his humble demeanor, he found he could achieve it. 

The leadership skills of Washington are perhaps second to none in American history.  The dedication he had for the cause, and more importantly his men, frequently kept the continental army together.  His biggest problem lay in his rather average ability as a tactician and strategist.  Though during the Revolution he showed he was more able, one only has to look at his record during the French and Indian War to see some major flaws.

Washington was the type of commander that kept the army from dissolving within, while his closest advisers kept the British at bay.  Troubled by hardship, and distraught from betrayal, Washington is seen as the American Commander who triumphed in spite of unlikely odds.

See:  George Washington - James Burns
See:  Meet George Washington



Washington   27
Pizarro          21
Vlad III         13



Winfield Scott  4       Immune   
Wellington       0
Fabius            -1
Wallenstein    -1
Pyrrhus          -2
Skanderbeg   -2
Lee                -3


Adding a brief summary.  We'll see how long that lasts

[Cincinnatus]

Military Leaders Throughout History: Pre 20th Century


Thutmose III             (1482-1425BC)          
Ramses the Great         (1303-1213BC)
David                     (1040-970BC)     Immune
Tiglath-Pileser III      (745-727)              
Cyrus the Great          (600-530BC)  
Darius I                (550-486 BC)          
Pericles                 (495-429BC)            
Epaminondas              (418-326BC)            
Alexander the Great      (356-323BC)            
Pyrrhus of Epirus        (318—272BC)            
Chandragupta Maurya      (   -298BC)            
Fabius Maximus           (280-203BC)            
Qin Shi Huang            (259–210BC)                    
Scipio Africanus         (235-183BC)            
Hannibal Barca           (247-182BC)            
Julius Caesar            (100-44Bc)              


Aurelian                 (214-275)              
Alaric I                 (370-410)              
Flavius Aetius           (396-454)              
Attila the Hun           (434-453)  
Clovis                     (466-511)            
Flavius Belisarius       (500-565)              
Khalid ibn al-Walid      (592–642)              
Heraclius                (610-641)              
Charles Martel           (688-741)              
Tariq ibn zeyad          (689-720)              
Charlemagne              (742-814)              

William the Conqueror    (1028-1087)            
Saladin                  (1137-1193)            
Richard the Lionheart    (1157-1199)            
Ghengis Khan             (1162-1227)  
Philip II Augustus (1165-1223)    
Alexander Nevsky  (1220-1263)      
Timur                    (1336-1405)            
Jan Žižka                (1360-1424)            

George Skanderbeg        (1405-1468)            
John Hunyadi             (1407-1456)    
Joan of Arc               (1412-1431)          Immune
Vlad III the Impaler     (1431–1476)            
Affonso de Albuquerque   (1453-1515)          
Gonzalo de Córdoba       (1453-1515)            
Selim I                  (1470-1520)            
Francisco Pizarro        (1471-1541)
Pierre Terrail, seigneur de Bayard  (1473-1524)            
Hernán Cortés            (1485-1547)            
Suleiman I               (1494-1556)            

Oda Nobunaga             (1534-1582)
Tokugawa Ieyasu     (1543-1616)                  Immune
Henri de La Tour d'Auvergne   (1555-1623)            
Maurice of Nassau        (1567-1625)            
Albrecht von Wallenstein (1583-1634)            
Gustavus Adolphus        (1594-1632)            
Oliver Cromwell          (1599-1658)            
Michiel de Ruyter        (1607-1676)            
Louis de Bourbon         (1621-1686)            
John Churchill           (1650-1722)            
Prince Eugene of Savoy   (1663-1736)            
Charles XII              (1682-1718)            
Nader Shah               (1688-1747)            

Frederick The Great      (1712-1786)            
Alexander Suvorov        (1729-1800)            
George Washington        (1732-1799)            
Horatio Nelson           (1758-1805)            
Napoleon Bonaparte       (1769-1821)            
1st Duke of Wellington   (1769-1852)
Simon Bolivar           (1783-1830)          Immune
José de San Martín       (1778-1850)            
Shaka Zulu               (1786-1828)            
Winfield Scott           (1786-1866)   Immune            

Moltke the Elder         (1800-1891)            
Giuseppe Garibaldi       (1807-1882)            
Robert E. Lee            (1807-1870)            
Tecumseh Sherman         (1820-1891)            
Ulysses S. Grant         (1822–1885)            
Stonewall Jackson        (1824-1863)



You can't edit your votes.  The Leader that is closest to being eliminated during a round (has the fourth most points) will have Immunity the next.  In the case of a tie, the earliest voter of the round in question (excluding myself), will choose between the Leaders tied.  



Round 2

You can cast the following eliminating votes: (7-5-3-2), or (10-5), or (12).  You have 4 points to keep a single leader (4), or to split (2-2), or (3-1).  We will eliminate 3 Leaders.  Winfield Scott is Immune this round.  

[homelycooking]

7 Albrecht von Wallenstein
5 Hernán Cortés  
3 1st Duke of Wellington
2 John Churchill

Keep
2 William Tecumseh Sherman
2 Pyrrhus of Epirus

[big bad fab]

Eliminate
7 Wellington
5 Cortés
3 Cromwell
2 Aurelian

Keep
2 Garibaldi
2 Alaric

[Hans-im-Glück]

Eliminate:
7  Aurelian
5  Garibaldi
3  John Churchill
2  Pyrrhus of Epirus

Keep:
4  Wallenstein

[Cincinnatus]

Eliminate:
7  Cortes
5  Pyrrhus
3  Wellington
2  Churchill

Keep:
2  Wallenstein
2  Sherman

[Nhoj]

7 Hernán Cortés 
5 1st Duke of Wellington
3 John Churchill
2 Albrecht von Wallenstein

Keep
2 William Tecumseh Sherman
2 Pyrrhus of Epirus

[Edu]

10 for Oliver Cromwell
5 for Richard the Lionheart

Keep
3 for John Churchill
1 for Pyrrhus of Epirus

My attempt at getting Aurelian immune

[Cincinnatus]

Most Points:  Hernán Cortés - 24

Spanish Conquistador, and conqueror of the Aztecs;  Hernán Cortés is perhaps the most famous conquistador, and one that helped fire the need for colonization in the Americas.  Cortés, with less than 1000 men, is noted in history as bringing about the collapse of the Aztec Empire.  Despite being far better armed than their enemy, the men led by Cortés are held by some as having achieved great success against a far greater numbered opponent.  However, it was not by the pure military success of Cortés that saw the end of such an Empire.

It could be strongly argued that the Aztec Empire made a monumental oversight that lead to its own collapse.  It was after all, not Cortés alone that conquered them but the aided assistance of Aztec neighbors [specifically Tlaxcala].  For years, the Aztecs forced their neighbors into alliances.  Alliances, which did quell warfare, but demanded sacrificial payment in return.  Instead of building strong alliances through protection, titles, and benefits [Like Romans used citizenship], the Aztec Empire did very well in creating resentment among their "allies" and neighbors.  Thus, when Cortés arrived, little persuasion was neccessary to turn the tables on the regions greatest Empire.  The Aztec Empire, through forcing unsettling alliances, doomed itself.

Hernán Cortés could have very well been absent from school children's history books.  A lasting feud between the conquistador and the Governor of Cuba, nearly ended the conquest before it began.  An order from his rival could have prevented Cortés expedition, but instead, such order was ignored.  Later, after fighting off arrest, Cortés asked for, and received titles for his successes, despite his previous refusal to adhere to orders.  Though his military leadership may not be among histories higher echelon, his ability to use the native people for military benefit remains exemplary.

See:  Sun Tzu and the Art of Modern Warfare - Mark Mcneilly
See:  BBC: Brief History of Cortés

Hernán Cortés   24
Wellington         18
Cromwell           13



Aurelian                                  9        Immune
John Churchill                         7
Richard the Lionheart             5
Albrecht von Wallenstein        3
Garabaldi                                3
Pyrrhus of Epirus                    2
Alaric                                      -2
William Tecumseh Sherman    -6

I'm only taking about 10 minutes to write these descriptions but, if you don't like my quick style of summarizing let me know [If you bother to read them] and I'll just put the votes down and forgo the writing

[Cincinnatus]

Military Leaders Throughout History: Pre 20th Century


Thutmose III             (1482-1425BC)          
Ramses the Great         (1303-1213BC)
David                     (1040-970BC)     Immune
Tiglath-Pileser III      (745-727)              
Cyrus the Great          (600-530BC)  
Darius I                (550-486 BC)          
Pericles                 (495-429BC)            
Epaminondas              (418-326BC)            
Alexander the Great      (356-323BC)            
Pyrrhus of Epirus        (318—272BC)            
Chandragupta Maurya      (   -298BC)            
Fabius Maximus           (280-203BC)            
Qin Shi Huang            (259–210BC)                    
Scipio Africanus         (235-183BC)            
Hannibal Barca           (247-182BC)            
Julius Caesar            (100-44Bc)              


Aurelian                 (214-275)   Immune              
Alaric I                 (370-410)              
Flavius Aetius           (396-454)              
Attila the Hun           (434-453)  
Clovis                     (466-511)            
Flavius Belisarius       (500-565)              
Khalid ibn al-Walid      (592–642)              
Heraclius                (610-641)              
Charles Martel           (688-741)              
Tariq ibn zeyad          (689-720)              
Charlemagne              (742-814)              

William the Conqueror    (1028-1087)            
Saladin                  (1137-1193)            
Richard the Lionheart    (1157-1199)            
Ghengis Khan             (1162-1227)  
Philip II Augustus (1165-1223)    
Alexander Nevsky  (1220-1263)      
Timur                    (1336-1405)            
Jan Žižka                (1360-1424)            

George Skanderbeg        (1405-1468)            
John Hunyadi             (1407-1456)    
Joan of Arc               (1412-1431)          Immune
Vlad III the Impaler     (1431–1476)            
Affonso de Albuquerque   (1453-1515)          
Gonzalo de Córdoba       (1453-1515)            
Selim I                  (1470-1520)            
Francisco Pizarro        (1471-1541)
Pierre Terrail, seigneur de Bayard  (1473-1524)            
Hernán Cortés            (1485-1547)            
Suleiman I               (1494-1556)            

Oda Nobunaga             (1534-1582)
Tokugawa Ieyasu     (1543-1616)                  Immune
Henri de La Tour d'Auvergne   (1555-1623)            
Maurice of Nassau        (1567-1625)            
Albrecht von Wallenstein (1583-1634)            
Gustavus Adolphus        (1594-1632)            
Oliver Cromwell          (1599-1658)            
Michiel de Ruyter        (1607-1676)            
Louis de Bourbon         (1621-1686)            
John Churchill           (1650-1722)            
Prince Eugene of Savoy   (1663-1736)            
Charles XII              (1682-1718)            
Nader Shah               (1688-1747)            

Frederick The Great      (1712-1786)            
Alexander Suvorov        (1729-1800)            
George Washington        (1732-1799)            
Horatio Nelson           (1758-1805)            
Napoleon Bonaparte       (1769-1821)            
1st Duke of Wellington   (1769-1852)
Simon Bolivar           (1783-1830)          Immune
José de San Martín       (1778-1850)            
Shaka Zulu               (1786-1828)            
Winfield Scott           (1786-1866)          

Moltke the Elder         (1800-1891)            
Giuseppe Garibaldi       (1807-1882)            
Robert E. Lee            (1807-1870)            
Tecumseh Sherman         (1820-1891)            
Ulysses S. Grant         (1822–1885)            
Stonewall Jackson        (1824-1863)



You can't edit your votes.  The Leader that is closest to being eliminated during a round (has the fourth most points) will have Immunity the next.  In the case of a tie, the earliest voter of the round in question (excluding myself), will choose between the Leaders tied.  



Round 3

You can cast the following eliminating votes: (7-5-3-2), or (10-5), or (12).  You have 4 points to keep a single leader (4), or to split (2-2), or (3-1).  We will eliminate 3 Leaders.  Aurelian is Immune this round  

[Nhoj]

7 Ulysses S. Grant
5 Richard the Lionheart
3 Oliver Cromwell
2  John Churchill       

keep
4 Pyrrhus of Epirus

[homelycooking]

7 Albrecht von Wallenstein
5 John Churchill
3 Alaric I
2 Henri de La Tour d'Auvergne  

Keep
2 Pyrrhus of Epirus
2 William Tecumseh Sherman

Cromwell's out, Nhoj

[big bad fab]

Eliminate
7 Richard the Lionheart
5 Qin Shi Huang (well, I don't remember him as a great military leader, I may be wrong)
3 Grant
2 Moltke

Keep
2 Henri de La Tour d'Auvergne (well, I'll say Turenne, IF he is not ousted this round, of course )
2 Alaric

(I know that Garibaldi should go soon, but I didn't want to see him go last round I stop trying to protect him though)

Your small texts are very interesting, Cincinnatus !
I enjoy them a lot !

I think we are all glad to have gained a fine manager of survivors .