Military Leaders: Pre 20th Century - Hannibal Barca is Survivor!

[Cincinnatus]

Military Leaders Throughout History: Pre 20th Century


Thutmose III             (1482-1425BC)          
Ramses the Great         (1303-1213BC)
David                     (1040-970BC)     Nominated
Tiglath-Pileser III      (745-727)              
Cyrus the Great          (600-530BC)
Darius I                (550-486 BC)       Nominated    
Pericles                 (495-429BC)            
Epaminondas              (418-326BC)            
Alexander the Great      (356-323BC)          
Pyrrhus of Epirus        (318—272BC)            
Chandragupta Maurya      (   -298BC)            
Fabius Maximus           (280-203BC)            
Qin Shi Huang            (259–210BC)                  
Scipio Africanus         (235-183BC)            
Hannibal Barca           (247-182BC)            
Julius Caesar            (100-44Bc)            


Aurelian                 (214-275)              
Alaric I                 (370-410)              
Flavius Aetius           (396-454)              
Attila the Hun           (434-453)
Clovis                     (466-511)          Nominated
Flavius Belisarius       (500-565)            
Khalid ibn al-Walid      (592–642)              
Heraclius                (610-641)              
Charles Martel           (688-741)            
Tariq ibn zeyad          (689-720)              
Charlemagne              (742-814)              

William the Conqueror    (1028-1087)            
Saladin                  (1137-1193)            
Richard the Lionheart    (1157-1199)            
Ghengis Khan             (1162-1227)  
Philip II Augustus (1165-1223)      Nominated
Alexander Nevsky  (1220-1263)      Nominated
Timur                    (1336-1405)            
Jan Žižka                (1360-1424)            

George Skanderbeg        (1405-1468)            
John Hunyadi             (1407-1456)  
Joan of Arc               (1412-1431)          Nominated
Vlad III the Impaler     (1431–1476)            
Affonso de Albuquerque   (1453-1515)          
Gonzalo de Córdoba       (1453-1515)            
Selim I                  (1470-1520)            
Francisco Pizarro        (1471-1541)
Pierre Terrail, seigneur de Bayard  (1473-1524)        Nominated
Hernán Cortés            (1485-1547)          
Suleiman I               (1494-1556)            

Oda Nobunaga             (1534-1582)
Tokugawa Ieyasu     (1543-1616)                  Nominated
Henri de La Tour d'Auvergne   (1555-1623)             Nominated
Maurice of Nassau        (1567-1625)            
Albrecht von Wallenstein (1583-1634)            
Gustavus Adolphus        (1594-1632)            
Oliver Cromwell          (1599-1658)            
Michiel de Ruyter        (1607-1676)            
Louis de Bourbon         (1621-1686)            
John Churchill           (1650-1722)            
Prince Eugene of Savoy   (1663-1736)            
Charles XII              (1682-1718)            
Nader Shah               (1688-1747)            

Frederick The Great      (1712-1786)            
Alexander Suvorov        (1729-1800)            
George Washington        (1732-1799)            
Horatio Nelson           (1758-1805)            
Napoleon Bonaparte       (1769-1821)            
1st Duke of Wellington   (1769-1852)
Simon Bolivar           (1783-1830)          Nominated
José de San Martín       (1778-1850)            
Shaka Zulu               (1786-1828)            
Winfield Scott           (1786-1866)            

Moltke the Elder         (1800-1891)            
Giuseppe Garibaldi       (1807-1882)            
Robert E. Lee            (1807-1870)            
Tecumseh Sherman         (1820-1891)            
Ulysses S. Grant         (1822–1885)            
Stonewall Jackson        (1824-1863)


Currently this list contains 65 Military leaders throughout history.  I decided to make it Pre 20th century, because the majority of us know quite a bit about WWI/WWII military leaders to fill an entire survivor.  

The first phase of this survivor will begin with nominations.  When voting begins, there will be a total of 75 Leaders, and the survivor will last approximately 30 rounds.  Thus, 10 spots remain to be filled by nomination.  Any participants are free to pick military leaders [Pre-20th century] to fill the remaining ten slots.  

The process will go as follows; Each participant is free to nominate Military leaders they feel should be included.  If a participant chooses more than one military leader, they will make obvious what preference each leader is.  This process will take 24-48 hours, depending on how many people participate.  I will take every participants first preference [but withhold my right to deny a troll], and if less than ten people vote, I will begin taking second preferences starting with the oldest posts.  If this process does not provide ten leaders, I will add ten that you probably won't want

Example:

[1]  Nathanael Greene
[2]  Sulla

[Cincinnatus]

18 nominations.. Jeez, I might as well have 100 on the list

I thought about Sun Tzu, but his actually Military record is somewhat of an unknown to history.  Plus, The Mikado pointed out if I counted him, I might as well count Machiavelli as well.  Which means I should also count Clausewitz in that case.

David was on my list of potentials, right next to Joshua so I'm glad you picked him.  Cortes took a relatively small force [even if he had guns] and conquered an entire people.  I wouldn't vote him to win, but I wanted some conquistadors in there for the period.  Basically, I tried to spread it out a little bit, because I could easily have picked leaders I really liked from America, Rome, and Greece alone.  Also, thanks for recommending another Japanese [Oda Nobunaga] is the only one currently on.  I'm not as knowledgeable with Asian military leaders as the other ones, so I was hoping someone would pick them.

[Cincinnatus]

The Nomination round is over.  First preferences will be given Immunity for 10 rounds.  Second preferences will be given Immunity for 5 rounds.  The last ten spots will be made up of the following:

[1] Simon Bolivar  Immune 10 Rounds
[1] David              Immune 10 Rounds
[2] Joan de Arc       Immune 5 Rounds
[2] Tokugawa Ieyasu   Immune 5 Rounds
[3] Henri de La Tour d'Auvergne
[4] Pierre Terrail, seigneur de Bayard
[5] Darius I
[6] Philip II Augustus
[7] Alexander Nevsky
[8] Clovis

[Cincinnatus]

Military Leaders Throughout History: Pre 20th Century


Thutmose III             (1482-1425BC)          
Ramses the Great         (1303-1213BC)
David                     (1040-970BC)     Immune
Tiglath-Pileser III      (745-727)              
Cyrus the Great          (600-530BC)  
Darius I                (550-486 BC)          
Pericles                 (495-429BC)            
Epaminondas              (418-326BC)            
Alexander the Great      (356-323BC)            
Pyrrhus of Epirus        (318—272BC)            
Chandragupta Maurya      (   -298BC)            
Fabius Maximus           (280-203BC)            
Qin Shi Huang            (259–210BC)                    
Scipio Africanus         (235-183BC)            
Hannibal Barca           (247-182BC)            
Julius Caesar            (100-44Bc)              


Aurelian                 (214-275)              
Alaric I                 (370-410)              
Flavius Aetius           (396-454)              
Attila the Hun           (434-453)  
Clovis                     (466-511)            
Flavius Belisarius       (500-565)              
Khalid ibn al-Walid      (592–642)              
Heraclius                (610-641)              
Charles Martel           (688-741)              
Tariq ibn zeyad          (689-720)              
Charlemagne              (742-814)              

William the Conqueror    (1028-1087)            
Saladin                  (1137-1193)            
Richard the Lionheart    (1157-1199)            
Ghengis Khan             (1162-1227)  
Philip II Augustus (1165-1223)    
Alexander Nevsky  (1220-1263)      
Timur                    (1336-1405)            
Jan Žižka                (1360-1424)            

George Skanderbeg        (1405-1468)            
John Hunyadi             (1407-1456)    
Joan of Arc               (1412-1431)          Immune
Vlad III the Impaler     (1431–1476)            
Affonso de Albuquerque   (1453-1515)          
Gonzalo de Córdoba       (1453-1515)            
Selim I                  (1470-1520)            
Francisco Pizarro        (1471-1541)
Pierre Terrail, seigneur de Bayard  (1473-1524)            
Hernán Cortés            (1485-1547)            
Suleiman I               (1494-1556)            

Oda Nobunaga             (1534-1582)
Tokugawa Ieyasu     (1543-1616)                  Immune
Henri de La Tour d'Auvergne   (1555-1623)            
Maurice of Nassau        (1567-1625)            
Albrecht von Wallenstein (1583-1634)            
Gustavus Adolphus        (1594-1632)            
Oliver Cromwell          (1599-1658)            
Michiel de Ruyter        (1607-1676)            
Louis de Bourbon         (1621-1686)            
John Churchill           (1650-1722)            
Prince Eugene of Savoy   (1663-1736)            
Charles XII              (1682-1718)            
Nader Shah               (1688-1747)            

Frederick The Great      (1712-1786)            
Alexander Suvorov        (1729-1800)            
George Washington        (1732-1799)            
Horatio Nelson           (1758-1805)            
Napoleon Bonaparte       (1769-1821)            
1st Duke of Wellington   (1769-1852)
Simon Bolivar           (1783-1830)          Immune
José de San Martín       (1778-1850)            
Shaka Zulu               (1786-1828)            
Winfield Scott           (1786-1866)            

Moltke the Elder         (1800-1891)            
Giuseppe Garibaldi       (1807-1882)            
Robert E. Lee            (1807-1870)            
Tecumseh Sherman         (1820-1891)            
Ulysses S. Grant         (1822–1885)            
Stonewall Jackson        (1824-1863)



You can't edit your votes.  The Leader that is closest to being eliminated during a round (has the fourth most points) will have Immunity the next.  In the case of a tie, the earliest voter of the round in question (excluding myself), will choose between the Leaders tied.  

Round 1

In the first round you can cast the following eliminating votes: (7-5-3-2), or (10-5), or (12).  You have 4 points to keep a single leader (4), or to split (2-2), or (3-1).  We will eliminate 3 Leaders.

    

[Cincinnatus]

Eliminate:
10   Pizarro
5     Washington

Keep:
4  Winfield Scott

[Cincinnatus]

Most Points:  George Washington - 27

Regarded as the leader of the American Revolution, and the "Father of his country," George Washington was the Commander of the continental army.  It is said that as a fully uniformed George Washington was being praised by John Adams, he was humble and noticeably weary of his ability to perform such a task as defying British rule.  To the historians that have written about him, this was his way.  Privately he sought grandeur with great ambition, and through his humble demeanor, he found he could achieve it. 

The leadership skills of Washington are perhaps second to none in American history.  The dedication he had for the cause, and more importantly his men, frequently kept the continental army together.  His biggest problem lay in his rather average ability as a tactician and strategist.  Though during the Revolution he showed he was more able, one only has to look at his record during the French and Indian War to see some major flaws.

Washington was the type of commander that kept the army from dissolving within, while his closest advisers kept the British at bay.  Troubled by hardship, and distraught from betrayal, Washington is seen as the American Commander who triumphed in spite of unlikely odds.

See:  George Washington - James Burns
See:  Meet George Washington



Washington   27
Pizarro          21
Vlad III         13



Winfield Scott  4       Immune   
Wellington       0
Fabius            -1
Wallenstein    -1
Pyrrhus          -2
Skanderbeg   -2
Lee                -3


Adding a brief summary.  We'll see how long that lasts

[Cincinnatus]

Military Leaders Throughout History: Pre 20th Century


Thutmose III             (1482-1425BC)          
Ramses the Great         (1303-1213BC)
David                     (1040-970BC)     Immune
Tiglath-Pileser III      (745-727)              
Cyrus the Great          (600-530BC)  
Darius I                (550-486 BC)          
Pericles                 (495-429BC)            
Epaminondas              (418-326BC)            
Alexander the Great      (356-323BC)            
Pyrrhus of Epirus        (318—272BC)            
Chandragupta Maurya      (   -298BC)            
Fabius Maximus           (280-203BC)            
Qin Shi Huang            (259–210BC)                    
Scipio Africanus         (235-183BC)            
Hannibal Barca           (247-182BC)            
Julius Caesar            (100-44Bc)              


Aurelian                 (214-275)              
Alaric I                 (370-410)              
Flavius Aetius           (396-454)              
Attila the Hun           (434-453)  
Clovis                     (466-511)            
Flavius Belisarius       (500-565)              
Khalid ibn al-Walid      (592–642)              
Heraclius                (610-641)              
Charles Martel           (688-741)              
Tariq ibn zeyad          (689-720)              
Charlemagne              (742-814)              

William the Conqueror    (1028-1087)            
Saladin                  (1137-1193)            
Richard the Lionheart    (1157-1199)            
Ghengis Khan             (1162-1227)  
Philip II Augustus (1165-1223)    
Alexander Nevsky  (1220-1263)      
Timur                    (1336-1405)            
Jan Žižka                (1360-1424)            

George Skanderbeg        (1405-1468)            
John Hunyadi             (1407-1456)    
Joan of Arc               (1412-1431)          Immune
Vlad III the Impaler     (1431–1476)            
Affonso de Albuquerque   (1453-1515)          
Gonzalo de Córdoba       (1453-1515)            
Selim I                  (1470-1520)            
Francisco Pizarro        (1471-1541)
Pierre Terrail, seigneur de Bayard  (1473-1524)            
Hernán Cortés            (1485-1547)            
Suleiman I               (1494-1556)            

Oda Nobunaga             (1534-1582)
Tokugawa Ieyasu     (1543-1616)                  Immune
Henri de La Tour d'Auvergne   (1555-1623)            
Maurice of Nassau        (1567-1625)            
Albrecht von Wallenstein (1583-1634)            
Gustavus Adolphus        (1594-1632)            
Oliver Cromwell          (1599-1658)            
Michiel de Ruyter        (1607-1676)            
Louis de Bourbon         (1621-1686)            
John Churchill           (1650-1722)            
Prince Eugene of Savoy   (1663-1736)            
Charles XII              (1682-1718)            
Nader Shah               (1688-1747)            

Frederick The Great      (1712-1786)            
Alexander Suvorov        (1729-1800)            
George Washington        (1732-1799)            
Horatio Nelson           (1758-1805)            
Napoleon Bonaparte       (1769-1821)            
1st Duke of Wellington   (1769-1852)
Simon Bolivar           (1783-1830)          Immune
José de San Martín       (1778-1850)            
Shaka Zulu               (1786-1828)            
Winfield Scott           (1786-1866)   Immune            

Moltke the Elder         (1800-1891)            
Giuseppe Garibaldi       (1807-1882)            
Robert E. Lee            (1807-1870)            
Tecumseh Sherman         (1820-1891)            
Ulysses S. Grant         (1822–1885)            
Stonewall Jackson        (1824-1863)



You can't edit your votes.  The Leader that is closest to being eliminated during a round (has the fourth most points) will have Immunity the next.  In the case of a tie, the earliest voter of the round in question (excluding myself), will choose between the Leaders tied.  



Round 2

You can cast the following eliminating votes: (7-5-3-2), or (10-5), or (12).  You have 4 points to keep a single leader (4), or to split (2-2), or (3-1).  We will eliminate 3 Leaders.  Winfield Scott is Immune this round.  

[Cincinnatus]

Eliminate:
7  Cortes
5  Pyrrhus
3  Wellington
2  Churchill

Keep:
2  Wallenstein
2  Sherman

[Cincinnatus]

Most Points:  Hernán Cortés - 24

Spanish Conquistador, and conqueror of the Aztecs;  Hernán Cortés is perhaps the most famous conquistador, and one that helped fire the need for colonization in the Americas.  Cortés, with less than 1000 men, is noted in history as bringing about the collapse of the Aztec Empire.  Despite being far better armed than their enemy, the men led by Cortés are held by some as having achieved great success against a far greater numbered opponent.  However, it was not by the pure military success of Cortés that saw the end of such an Empire.

It could be strongly argued that the Aztec Empire made a monumental oversight that lead to its own collapse.  It was after all, not Cortés alone that conquered them but the aided assistance of Aztec neighbors [specifically Tlaxcala].  For years, the Aztecs forced their neighbors into alliances.  Alliances, which did quell warfare, but demanded sacrificial payment in return.  Instead of building strong alliances through protection, titles, and benefits [Like Romans used citizenship], the Aztec Empire did very well in creating resentment among their "allies" and neighbors.  Thus, when Cortés arrived, little persuasion was neccessary to turn the tables on the regions greatest Empire.  The Aztec Empire, through forcing unsettling alliances, doomed itself.

Hernán Cortés could have very well been absent from school children's history books.  A lasting feud between the conquistador and the Governor of Cuba, nearly ended the conquest before it began.  An order from his rival could have prevented Cortés expedition, but instead, such order was ignored.  Later, after fighting off arrest, Cortés asked for, and received titles for his successes, despite his previous refusal to adhere to orders.  Though his military leadership may not be among histories higher echelon, his ability to use the native people for military benefit remains exemplary.

See:  Sun Tzu and the Art of Modern Warfare - Mark Mcneilly
See:  BBC: Brief History of Cortés

Hernán Cortés   24
Wellington         18
Cromwell           13



Aurelian                                  9        Immune
John Churchill                         7
Richard the Lionheart             5
Albrecht von Wallenstein        3
Garabaldi                                3
Pyrrhus of Epirus                    2
Alaric                                      -2
William Tecumseh Sherman    -6

I'm only taking about 10 minutes to write these descriptions but, if you don't like my quick style of summarizing let me know [If you bother to read them] and I'll just put the votes down and forgo the writing

[Cincinnatus]

Military Leaders Throughout History: Pre 20th Century


Thutmose III             (1482-1425BC)          
Ramses the Great         (1303-1213BC)
David                     (1040-970BC)     Immune
Tiglath-Pileser III      (745-727)              
Cyrus the Great          (600-530BC)  
Darius I                (550-486 BC)          
Pericles                 (495-429BC)            
Epaminondas              (418-326BC)            
Alexander the Great      (356-323BC)            
Pyrrhus of Epirus        (318—272BC)            
Chandragupta Maurya      (   -298BC)            
Fabius Maximus           (280-203BC)            
Qin Shi Huang            (259–210BC)                    
Scipio Africanus         (235-183BC)            
Hannibal Barca           (247-182BC)            
Julius Caesar            (100-44Bc)              


Aurelian                 (214-275)   Immune              
Alaric I                 (370-410)              
Flavius Aetius           (396-454)              
Attila the Hun           (434-453)  
Clovis                     (466-511)            
Flavius Belisarius       (500-565)              
Khalid ibn al-Walid      (592–642)              
Heraclius                (610-641)              
Charles Martel           (688-741)              
Tariq ibn zeyad          (689-720)              
Charlemagne              (742-814)              

William the Conqueror    (1028-1087)            
Saladin                  (1137-1193)            
Richard the Lionheart    (1157-1199)            
Ghengis Khan             (1162-1227)  
Philip II Augustus (1165-1223)    
Alexander Nevsky  (1220-1263)      
Timur                    (1336-1405)            
Jan Žižka                (1360-1424)            

George Skanderbeg        (1405-1468)            
John Hunyadi             (1407-1456)    
Joan of Arc               (1412-1431)          Immune
Vlad III the Impaler     (1431–1476)            
Affonso de Albuquerque   (1453-1515)          
Gonzalo de Córdoba       (1453-1515)            
Selim I                  (1470-1520)            
Francisco Pizarro        (1471-1541)
Pierre Terrail, seigneur de Bayard  (1473-1524)            
Hernán Cortés            (1485-1547)            
Suleiman I               (1494-1556)            

Oda Nobunaga             (1534-1582)
Tokugawa Ieyasu     (1543-1616)                  Immune
Henri de La Tour d'Auvergne   (1555-1623)            
Maurice of Nassau        (1567-1625)            
Albrecht von Wallenstein (1583-1634)            
Gustavus Adolphus        (1594-1632)            
Oliver Cromwell          (1599-1658)            
Michiel de Ruyter        (1607-1676)            
Louis de Bourbon         (1621-1686)            
John Churchill           (1650-1722)            
Prince Eugene of Savoy   (1663-1736)            
Charles XII              (1682-1718)            
Nader Shah               (1688-1747)            

Frederick The Great      (1712-1786)            
Alexander Suvorov        (1729-1800)            
George Washington        (1732-1799)            
Horatio Nelson           (1758-1805)            
Napoleon Bonaparte       (1769-1821)            
1st Duke of Wellington   (1769-1852)
Simon Bolivar           (1783-1830)          Immune
José de San Martín       (1778-1850)            
Shaka Zulu               (1786-1828)            
Winfield Scott           (1786-1866)          

Moltke the Elder         (1800-1891)            
Giuseppe Garibaldi       (1807-1882)            
Robert E. Lee            (1807-1870)            
Tecumseh Sherman         (1820-1891)            
Ulysses S. Grant         (1822–1885)            
Stonewall Jackson        (1824-1863)



You can't edit your votes.  The Leader that is closest to being eliminated during a round (has the fourth most points) will have Immunity the next.  In the case of a tie, the earliest voter of the round in question (excluding myself), will choose between the Leaders tied.  



Round 3

You can cast the following eliminating votes: (7-5-3-2), or (10-5), or (12).  You have 4 points to keep a single leader (4), or to split (2-2), or (3-1).  We will eliminate 3 Leaders.  Aurelian is Immune this round  

[Cincinnatus]

Eliminate:
10  Richard I
5    Qin Shi Huang

Keep:
2  John Churchill
2  Alaric I

I considered voting heavily against Pyrrhus but, due in part by the insistence of keeping him, I decided not to try and eliminate him yet.  There are far less deserving leaders on this list.  By the way, I particularly like Garibaldi but, he probably shouldn't be around for much longer.

[Cincinnatus]

if you allow Cincinnatus since I voted for someone not in anymore, can I change my cromwell vote to Albrecht von Wallenstein.

No problem.

[Cincinnatus]

Immunity:

It appears Immunity is tied three ways at 8 votes a piece.  Nhoj was the first voter, but because his vote was originally invalid, the decision goes to the next earliest voter.  Homelycooking will decide which of the following gains next rounds Immunity [If he's absent I'll assume it's Grant because he didn't vote for him ] :

8  John Churchill
8  Ulysses S. Grant
8  Wallenstein

[Cincinnatus]

Most Points:  Richard I - 32  Points


With a large 32 point elimination, Richard I of England is eliminated.  Better known to all as Richard the Lionheart, this King saw little time actually overseeing England.  From an early age Richard I led on the battlefield, perfecting his craft for the day his name would become legend.  The Third Crusade offered such opportunity to solidify Richards legacy, and satisfy his need for war.

Like many of the Kings in Richards house, he had little fluency in English.  As King of England, duties that required specific attention where generally delegated to advisers to the King.  Richard did little for, and rarely spent time in the Kingdom of which he was responsible.  In fact, the most active role he played in England was to sell titles, lands, rights, and too raise taxes, all in an effort to raise funds for the Crusade.

Upon Richards arrival in Acre, he saw his valuable allies dwindle [Leopold, Philip].  Having captured several thousand Muslim prisoners, once Richard realized that Saladin would not negotiate with his terms, he proceeded to have the entire group executed.  Several months later , Richard I would go on to beat Saladin in the Battle of Arsuf.  Marching only in the morning, Richard kept his men hydrated and well prepared for the battle that awaited.  Meanwhile, Saladin chose to position his men between hills denying Richard room to easily outmaneuver him.  This did not bode well for Saladin in the end because Richards men successfully withheld the oncoming forces leaving them exhausted, dehydrated, and demoralized.  When the enemy began to falter and break line [exhaustion from the troops, and the rear crossbowmen were delayed], Richard would quickly capitalize, and inflict heavy death tolls for the Muslim Army.  Saladin and Richard I would face each other several times on the battlefield.  Historical accounts say that each had great respect for the others military achievements and abilities.

Richard the Lionheart is anything but a simple man.  Having gained great respect from those who were relatively strangers, he would ultimately drive those believed to be closest to him away.  It is said he had great compassion, but his brutality is evident during his ordered executions of prisoners.  Though he was personally careless with his safety, Richard the Lionheart would not die by the tip of a sword.  During a walk about the castle, a single crossbow would be shot at his left shoulder.  Even while Richard lie dying of infection, he would forgive his killer and set him free.

See:BBC: Richard I
See:Battle of Arsuf

I had to look of the battle.  I'm glad I did because I don't remember it from the documentary I watched.  Anyway, it's far to intricate for me to be motivated to write in full detail so, there's a link [Wikipedia is useful no matter what anyone says].



32  Richard the Lionheart
12  Ramses the Great
10  Qin Shi Huang

8   Ulysses S. Grant    Immunity
8   John Churchill
8   Wallenstein
0   Henri de La Tour d'Auvergne
0   Moltke   
-1  Alaric   
-6  Pyrrhus
-2  Sherman

[Cincinnatus]

Military Leaders Throughout History: Pre 20th Century


Thutmose III             (1482-1425BC)          
Ramses the Great         (1303-1213BC)
David                     (1040-970BC)     Immune
Tiglath-Pileser III      (745-727)              
Cyrus the Great          (600-530BC)  
Darius I                (550-486 BC)          
Pericles                 (495-429BC)            
Epaminondas              (418-326BC)            
Alexander the Great      (356-323BC)            
Pyrrhus of Epirus        (318—272BC)            
Chandragupta Maurya      (   -298BC)            
Fabius Maximus           (280-203BC)            
Qin Shi Huang            (259–210BC)                    
Scipio Africanus         (235-183BC)            
Hannibal Barca           (247-182BC)            
Julius Caesar            (100-44Bc)              


Aurelian                 (214-275)                
Alaric I                 (370-410)              
Flavius Aetius           (396-454)              
Attila the Hun           (434-453)  
Clovis                     (466-511)            
Flavius Belisarius       (500-565)              
Khalid ibn al-Walid      (592–642)              
Heraclius                (610-641)              
Charles Martel           (688-741)              
Tariq ibn zeyad          (689-720)              
Charlemagne              (742-814)              

William the Conqueror    (1028-1087)            
Saladin                  (1137-1193)            
Richard the Lionheart    (1157-1199)            
Ghengis Khan             (1162-1227)  
Philip II Augustus (1165-1223)    
Alexander Nevsky  (1220-1263)      
Timur                    (1336-1405)            
Jan Žižka                (1360-1424)            

George Skanderbeg        (1405-1468)            
John Hunyadi             (1407-1456)    
Joan of Arc               (1412-1431)          Immune
Vlad III the Impaler     (1431–1476)            
Affonso de Albuquerque   (1453-1515)          
Gonzalo de Córdoba       (1453-1515)            
Selim I                  (1470-1520)            
Francisco Pizarro        (1471-1541)
Pierre Terrail, seigneur de Bayard  (1473-1524)            
Hernán Cortés            (1485-1547)            
Suleiman I               (1494-1556)            

Oda Nobunaga             (1534-1582)
Tokugawa Ieyasu     (1543-1616)                  Immune
Henri de La Tour d'Auvergne   (1555-1623)            
Maurice of Nassau        (1567-1625)            
Albrecht von Wallenstein (1583-1634)            
Gustavus Adolphus        (1594-1632)            
Oliver Cromwell          (1599-1658)            
Michiel de Ruyter        (1607-1676)            
Louis de Bourbon         (1621-1686)            
John Churchill           (1650-1722)            
Prince Eugene of Savoy   (1663-1736)            
Charles XII              (1682-1718)            
Nader Shah               (1688-1747)            

Frederick The Great      (1712-1786)            
Alexander Suvorov        (1729-1800)            
George Washington        (1732-1799)            
Horatio Nelson           (1758-1805)            
Napoleon Bonaparte       (1769-1821)            
1st Duke of Wellington   (1769-1852)
Simon Bolivar           (1783-1830)          Immune
José de San Martín       (1778-1850)            
Shaka Zulu               (1786-1828)            
Winfield Scott           (1786-1866)          

Moltke the Elder         (1800-1891)            
Giuseppe Garibaldi       (1807-1882)            
Robert E. Lee            (1807-1870)            
Tecumseh Sherman         (1820-1891)            
Ulysses S. Grant         (1822–1885)    Immunity            
Stonewall Jackson        (1824-1863)



You can't edit your votes.  The Leader that is closest to being eliminated during a round (has the fourth most points) will have Immunity the next.  In the case of a tie, the earliest voter of the round in question (excluding myself), will choose between the Leaders tied.  



Round 4

You can cast the following eliminating votes: (7-5-3-2), or (10-5), or (12).  You have 4 points to keep a single leader (4), or to split (2-2), or (3-1).  We will eliminate 3 Leaders.  Grant is Immune this Round!  

[Cincinnatus]

Eliminate:
7  Pyrrhus
5  Henri de La Tour d'Auvergne
3  Aurelian
2  Garibaldi

Keep:
2  Sherman
2  Alaric

[Cincinnatus]

Poor Turenne...

Poor Scott.  I could have dealt with Stonewall or Grant going.  I actually find Scott interesting

[Cincinnatus]

Most Points:  Winfield Scott  -  18

"Old Fuss and Feathers" remains the longest serving general throughout American history.  Leading troops through several wars, and even giving advice to Lincoln during the Civil War, he was a man with enormous influence.  Winfield Scott never succeeded in his attempt to gain the presidency.  Scott's anti-slavery views caused Southerners to reject him, and yet, Northerners would not elect Scott as a member of the Whig's.  His failure in politics did not dissuade public opinion about him.  Scott was a war hero, and like many of his kind, his ability as a commander, far outweighed his failure as a politician. 

October 1812;  Winfield Scott, now in charge of the New York militia would be forced to surrender.  While in captivity, an event took place which effect him forever.  Several Irish-American prisoners would be executed as Scott was prisoner.  A stain on Scott's legacy, he would later demand Congress to retaliate by executing British prisoners [James Madison would deny this].  Winfield Scott would go on to aid in the capture of Fort George, an important strategic position on the Niagara River, which earned him respect throughout the country.

Scott was a key figure serving in the "Indian Wars" and would supervise the removal of Natives from their land.  With several thousand remaining, Scott would force these Cherokee Indians out of their land in what would later be called, "The Trail of Tears."

During the Mexican-American war, many military theorists perceived Mexico as the greater army.  The strategy against Mexico involved two forces.  One would push through Texas into Mexico, and another would sail through the Gulf of Mexico.  At 61 years of age, Winfield Scott would be in command of the seaborne assault.  Landing outside the range of Vera Cruz's defending guns, Scott would go on to take Vera Cruz with a death count of only nineteen.  Soon after, when the Americans moved towards Mexico City, Scott would meet the Mexican dictator, Santa Ana in battle.  Having flanked the Mexican army, Scott would inflict large casualties, and take several prisoners.  Scott would cut loose from his supply line in order to take Mexico City quickly, a move that many [such as the Duke of Wellington] thought foolish.  Not long after, Mexico City would fall, and the war would be ended, making Scott a war hero.     

Scott would often be at the front of the battle,and throughout his career, he received several wounds because of it.  His hardline approach to military protocol, dress-code, and behavior would earn him the nickname of "Old Fuss and Feathers", and though his nickname implied callousness, he was known for being greatly devoted to his men.  Always weary of potential devastation to the mens health, he would often clash with others when his men fell ill, and quickly addressed issues that may lower morale among those he led.  After decades of military life, Scott would refuse to join his home state of Virginia's succession, and would be regarded by Lincoln as a valuable adviser. 


See:  Sun Tzu and the Art of Modern Warfare - Mark Mcneilly [Have it on audiobook and it's excellent ]


18  Scott
15  Henri de La Tour d'Auvergne
15  Wallenstein

11  Churchill    Immune
10  Pyrrhus
1   Alaric I
3   Aurelian
5   Garibaldi
-2   Moltke
-2  Sherman

[Cincinnatus]

Military Leaders Throughout History: Pre 20th Century


Thutmose III             (1482-1425BC)          
Ramses the Great         (1303-1213BC)
David                     (1040-970BC)     Immune
Tiglath-Pileser III      (745-727)              
Cyrus the Great          (600-530BC)  
Darius I                (550-486 BC)          
Pericles                 (495-429BC)            
Epaminondas              (418-326BC)            
Alexander the Great      (356-323BC)            
Pyrrhus of Epirus        (318—272BC)            
Chandragupta Maurya      (   -298BC)            
Fabius Maximus           (280-203BC)            
Qin Shi Huang            (259–210BC)                    
Scipio Africanus         (235-183BC)            
Hannibal Barca           (247-182BC)            
Julius Caesar            (100-44Bc)              


Aurelian                 (214-275)                
Alaric I                 (370-410)              
Flavius Aetius           (396-454)              
Attila the Hun           (434-453)  
Clovis                     (466-511)            
Flavius Belisarius       (500-565)              
Khalid ibn al-Walid      (592–642)              
Heraclius                (610-641)              
Charles Martel           (688-741)              
Tariq ibn zeyad          (689-720)              
Charlemagne              (742-814)              

William the Conqueror    (1028-1087)            
Saladin                  (1137-1193)            
Richard the Lionheart    (1157-1199)            
Ghengis Khan             (1162-1227)  
Philip II Augustus (1165-1223)    
Alexander Nevsky  (1220-1263)      
Timur                    (1336-1405)            
Jan Žižka                (1360-1424)            

George Skanderbeg        (1405-1468)            
John Hunyadi             (1407-1456)    
Joan of Arc               (1412-1431)          Immune
Vlad III the Impaler     (1431–1476)            
Affonso de Albuquerque   (1453-1515)          
Gonzalo de Córdoba       (1453-1515)            
Selim I                  (1470-1520)            
Francisco Pizarro        (1471-1541)
Pierre Terrail, seigneur de Bayard  (1473-1524)            
Hernán Cortés            (1485-1547)            
Suleiman I               (1494-1556)            

Oda Nobunaga             (1534-1582)
Tokugawa Ieyasu     (1543-1616)                  Immune
Henri de La Tour d'Auvergne   (1555-1623)            
Maurice of Nassau        (1567-1625)            
Albrecht von Wallenstein (1583-1634)            
Gustavus Adolphus        (1594-1632)            
Oliver Cromwell          (1599-1658)            
Michiel de Ruyter        (1607-1676)            
Louis de Bourbon         (1621-1686)            
John Churchill           (1650-1722) Immune            
Prince Eugene of Savoy   (1663-1736)            
Charles XII              (1682-1718)            
Nader Shah               (1688-1747)            

Frederick The Great      (1712-1786)            
Alexander Suvorov        (1729-1800)            
George Washington        (1732-1799)            
Horatio Nelson           (1758-1805)            
Napoleon Bonaparte       (1769-1821)            
1st Duke of Wellington   (1769-1852)
Simon Bolivar           (1783-1830)          Immune
José de San Martín       (1778-1850)            
Shaka Zulu               (1786-1828)            
Winfield Scott           (1786-1866)          

Moltke the Elder         (1800-1891)            
Giuseppe Garibaldi       (1807-1882)            
Robert E. Lee            (1807-1870)            
Tecumseh Sherman         (1820-1891)            
Ulysses S. Grant         (1822–1885)      
Stonewall Jackson        (1824-1863)



You can't edit your votes.  The Leader that is closest to being eliminated during a round (has the fourth most points) will have Immunity the next.  In the case of a tie, the earliest voter of the round in question (excluding myself), will choose between the Leaders tied.  



Round 5

You can cast the following eliminating votes: (7-5-3-2), or (10-5), or (12).  You have 4 points to keep a single leader (4), or to split (2-2), or (3-1).  We will eliminate 3 Leaders.  John Churchill is Immune this Round!  

[Cincinnatus]

7  Córdoba
5  Pyrrhus
3  Garibaldi
2  Stonewall Jackson

Keep:
2  Alaric I
2  Sherman

7 Alaric I
5 Gonzalo de Córdoba
3 Giuseppe Garibaldi
2 Flavius Aetius

WTF is this? I have to live with Churchill for another round?

Unfortunately for you, yes.  By the way, you forgot your keep votes.

[Cincinnatus]

I'm going to close this round in a little bit.  If anyone still wants to vote, feel free to do it until then.                                                       

[Cincinnatus]

17 Giuseppe Garibaldi
17 Gonzalo de Córdoba
17  Grant

5  Pyrrhus       Immune
3  Alaric I
3  Stonewall Jackson
3   Shaka Zulu
2  Flavius Aetius
-2 Sherman


Next round, the following will no longer have Immunity:

[2] Joan of Arc      
[2] Tokugawa Ieyasu

[Cincinnatus]

Military Leaders Throughout History: Pre 20th Century


Thutmose III             (1482-1425BC)          
Ramses the Great         (1303-1213BC)
David                     (1040-970BC)     Immune
Tiglath-Pileser III      (745-727)              
Cyrus the Great          (600-530BC)  
Darius I                (550-486 BC)          
Pericles                 (495-429BC)            
Epaminondas              (418-326BC)            
Alexander the Great      (356-323BC)            
Pyrrhus of Epirus        (318—272BC)   Immune          
Chandragupta Maurya      (   -298BC)            
Fabius Maximus           (280-203BC)            
Qin Shi Huang            (259–210BC)                    
Scipio Africanus         (235-183BC)            
Hannibal Barca           (247-182BC)            
Julius Caesar            (100-44Bc)              


Aurelian                 (214-275)                
Alaric I                 (370-410)              
Flavius Aetius           (396-454)              
Attila the Hun           (434-453)  
Clovis                     (466-511)            
Flavius Belisarius       (500-565)              
Khalid ibn al-Walid      (592–642)              
Heraclius                (610-641)              
Charles Martel           (688-741)              
Tariq ibn zeyad          (689-720)              
Charlemagne              (742-814)              

William the Conqueror    (1028-1087)            
Saladin                  (1137-1193)            
Richard the Lionheart    (1157-1199)            
Ghengis Khan             (1162-1227)  
Philip II Augustus (1165-1223)    
Alexander Nevsky  (1220-1263)      
Timur                    (1336-1405)            
Jan Žižka                (1360-1424)            

George Skanderbeg        (1405-1468)            
John Hunyadi             (1407-1456)    
Joan of Arc               (1412-1431)      
Vlad III the Impaler     (1431–1476)            
Affonso de Albuquerque   (1453-1515)          
Gonzalo de Córdoba       (1453-1515)            
Selim I                  (1470-1520)            
Francisco Pizarro        (1471-1541)
Pierre Terrail, seigneur de Bayard  (1473-1524)            
Hernán Cortés            (1485-1547)            
Suleiman I               (1494-1556)            

Oda Nobunaga             (1534-1582)
Tokugawa Ieyasu     (1543-1616)                  
Henri de La Tour d'Auvergne   (1555-1623)            
Maurice of Nassau        (1567-1625)            
Albrecht von Wallenstein (1583-1634)            
Gustavus Adolphus        (1594-1632)            
Oliver Cromwell          (1599-1658)            
Michiel de Ruyter        (1607-1676)            
Louis de Bourbon         (1621-1686)            
John Churchill           (1650-1722)          
Prince Eugene of Savoy   (1663-1736)            
Charles XII              (1682-1718)            
Nader Shah               (1688-1747)            

Frederick The Great      (1712-1786)            
Alexander Suvorov        (1729-1800)            
George Washington        (1732-1799)            
Horatio Nelson           (1758-1805)            
Napoleon Bonaparte       (1769-1821)            
1st Duke of Wellington   (1769-1852)
Simon Bolivar           (1783-1830)          Immune
José de San Martín       (1778-1850)            
Shaka Zulu               (1786-1828)            
Winfield Scott           (1786-1866)          

Moltke the Elder         (1800-1891)            
Giuseppe Garibaldi       (1807-1882)            
Robert E. Lee            (1807-1870)            
Tecumseh Sherman         (1820-1891)            
Ulysses S. Grant         (1822–1885)      
Stonewall Jackson        (1824-1863)



You can't edit your votes.  The Leader that is closest to being eliminated during a round (has the fourth most points) will have Immunity the next.  In the case of a tie, the earliest voter of the round in question (excluding myself), will choose between the Leaders tied.  



Round 6

You can cast the following eliminating votes: (7-5-3-2), or (10-5), or (12).  You have 4 points to keep a single leader (4), or to split (2-2), or (3-1).  We will eliminate 3 Leaders.  Pyrrhus is Immune!

[Cincinnatus]

7  Alexander Nevsky
5  Flavius Aetius
3  John Churchill
2  Moltke

Keep:
2  Nelson
2  Alaric I

[Cincinnatus]

17 John Churchill
14  Alexander Nevsky
12  William the Conqueror


 9 Flavius Aetius    Immune
 5 Moltke
 4 Alaric I
 1  Shaka Zulu
 0 Stonewall Jackson
-1  Horatio Nelson
-1  Tokugawa


I will be on vacation starting tomorrow afternoon until Wednesday.  I'll start the next round when I return.