Homosexuality

[Ban my account ffs!]

False dichotomy.

I think homosexuality can be both/either environmental and/or genetic.  Some studies have indicated that the more boys a woman has, the higher the likelihood of them being gay.

Others show that a higher proportion of gay men had mothers who suffered a difficult pregnancy (it's because we're so fierce).

Yet others theorize it could be genetic, being that it was beneficial for groups of humans to have extra non-reproducing humans around to help care for others' children and also hunt and gather food without having to worry about children back at camp. 

As far as people who say how cultures never had gay marriage...

The Native Americans here, the Ojibwe, had a word for gays:  Niizh manidoowag, translated into English as "two-spirited", means somebody whose body simultaneously houses a male and female spirit.  Male "two spirits" have been documented in 130 tribes and hav ebeen described in almost every Native American tribe/culture in North America (Will Roscoe, "Zuni-Man Woman").  These men often took on both male and female roles in society as well as special roles such as being medics during battles or passing down the traditional stories and history of the tribe. 

The two-spirit men sometimes took wives as well as often taking husbands.  In almost all cases, these men took husbands who were not "two-spirits".. as in, they were "straight".  In the Ojibwe tribes, these two-spirit men were respected and revered and were thought to hold special powers, such as giving people special nicknames that would give them good luck.

Ozawindib is a famous example of a "two-spirit."  Ozawindib was a famous Ojibwe warrior and two-spirit that took many husbands.  He famously led Henry Rowe Schoolcraft to the source of the Mississippi River at Lake Itasca.  When camping further west along the Red River at modern day Pembina, North Dakota, Ozawindib made several proposals of marriage to Henry Schoolcraft, which Schoolcraft, of course, declined.

While two-spirit people in most Native American cultures were not considered specifically homosexual, it is likely that homosexual members of the tribes took on the roles of two-spirits.  As an example, most women two-spirits, from what documentation has been found, had homosexual relationships almost exclusively.

Two-Spirits referred to other two-spirits (both male and female) as their sisters, and it is believed that there were few cases of sexual relationships between two-spirits because it would be considered "incestuous." 

[Ban my account ffs!]

The predisposition to same-sex attraction is probably at least in part genetic, along with some element of socialization, any activity that could affect hormone levels, etc.

But, to act upon those attractions is not genetic at all. People also have the ability to not engage in a sex act or to enter into a certain relationship. So if we take homosexuality to be an act rather than an attraction (the word 'homosexuality' may be ambiguous in this respect, though I haven't met many celibate people who experience same-sex attraction who call themselves homosexuals so I am taking it to imply that one has engaged in said acts and is not celibate), then it must be a choice as long as we accept that we have the ability to make choices, ie. free will. If we have no free will then this is all a moot point anyway, so I'd consider "lifestyle choice" to be a more representative reflection of my view than "genetic" but that I'd rather select "Both" if I could.

Breathing and eating should also be classified as "lifestyle choices" then.

It’s different, because if you don’t eat or breathe at all, you die. You can live without sexual activity, believe it or not. Before anyone says it’s impossible, I’ve made it all 22.5 years of life this far without committing a sex act, including making out and masturbation. Yes, I’ve made it through an undergraduate degree in college and at a secular research institution (with a liberal reputation at that) not a religious school. One day this may end if I find a girl I’d like to marry. If not, I might make it my whole life. It might not always be fun, pleasurable, or easy but it’s possible. Someday I might screw up and in my human imperfection engage in a sex act outside the bonds of marriage, committing a sin (though whether or not committing such an act is a sin or not is beside the point). The point is that if I do, it’s still a choice I made. There is more to life than sexual pleasure.

Eating and breathing on the other hand are required to live without artificial support. Perhaps we could argue about whether an IV constitutes “eating” or a ventilator constituted “breathing” though that is entirely semantic because and IV and a ventilator serve the same purpose as eating and breathing. I guess one could make the argument that this is a lifestyle choice too but to make the opposite choice would interfere with a person’s ability to perform other tasks required to be a functional human.

You don't die if you quit breathing or eating because a)  the buildup of carbon dioxide in your blood will cause so much pain and discomfort and send panic signals to your brain that you will begin breathing again or b)  you will starve only for so long before the instinct to eat kicks in and you gorge yourself at McDonalds until you're violently sick.

The same goes for sexual activity.  Seeking release that is not available through sex or masturbation, you are discharging your body's excess semen in your sleep, whether you realize it or not.  And how does your body do that?  Why.. through the orgasm, of course.

[Ban my account ffs!]

Before anyone says it’s impossible, I’ve made it all 22.5 years of life this far without committing a sex act, including making out and masturbation.

Believe me, nobody is surprised.

Haha I bet there are plenty of nerdy individuals out there like me with no gf and who don't have random hook-ups, mostly from never attending a party (though I usually go to parties as the only sober one since most of my best friends have a rather different outlook on this kind of stuff than I do) 

Actually, I was more expecting to get the "You're lying, you can't possibly expect me to believe you don't masterbate" line from people.

I actually really like the fact that you have been nothing but amicable and friendly since arriving here.  I admit my first thought was "  Another Republican from Ohio"... but you're actually just a nice guy who happens to disagree with me.

That said,

the "I'm saving myself for marriage" thing is nothing but a defense mechanism.  If you don't have the self courage to get a girl, I don't believe you'd have the courage to say no if the situation presented itself.  Just my humble opinion, of course.

[Ban my account ffs!]

The predisposition to same-sex attraction is probably at least in part genetic, along with some element of socialization, any activity that could affect hormone levels, etc.

But, to act upon those attractions is not genetic at all. People also have the ability to not engage in a sex act or to enter into a certain relationship. So if we take homosexuality to be an act rather than an attraction (the word 'homosexuality' may be ambiguous in this respect, though I haven't met many celibate people who experience same-sex attraction who call themselves homosexuals so I am taking it to imply that one has engaged in said acts and is not celibate), then it must be a choice as long as we accept that we have the ability to make choices, ie. free will. If we have no free will then this is all a moot point anyway, so I'd consider "lifestyle choice" to be a more representative reflection of my view than "genetic" but that I'd rather select "Both" if I could.

Breathing and eating should also be classified as "lifestyle choices" then.

What we eat is largely a lifestyle choice, as is how much we eat.  It isn't absolute free will, but it is close.

That's actually probably untrue.  Obesity has high heritability, somewhere around .80 (higher than height, even!).  A lot of that is likely due to different food preferences which might be essentially hardwired.  I'm somewhat of a supertaster, for example, and my eating habits reflect that; consequently, I'm not overweight.  It's hard to imagine the number of taste buds on my tongue not at least partially being a product of genetics

That's not to say you can't help your weight entirely, of course.  But most people don't try to do things completely out of sync with what their body tells them.

This is very interesting.  Thanks Verin.  I may have found out that I have supertaster qualities as well. 

While I love cabbage and brussel sprouts, I have a strong aversion to bitter foods... and though I love the flavor of chili peppers, the burn is incredibly painful.  In fact, it is not much less intense than, say, burning the sensitive area on the bottom of your wrist on a hot griddle.

Olives and tonic water are repulsive to me... as are bitter greens and many alcoholic beverages.

Well, yay.. at least I can be super at something.