Case Against DSK Reportedly Near Collapse

[Landslide Lyndon]

Apparently the woman has already lied once about being raped. That alone could sink the case, even if it wasn't for the rest of facts that were discovered and cast doubt on her truthfulness.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Soon, DSK will be doing this 

[J. J.]

The press reports indicated that the police think she lied.  That is substantially lower than not being reliable.

Do you know what litotes is? I use it occasionally.

I don't think this is a figure of speech, especially in a criminal proceeding.

It is like saying, "Maybe X committed committed the crime" versus "There is proof beyond a reasonable doubt that X committed the crime."

Hmm...? I was describing the words that I wrote ('perhaps less than entirely reliable') as an example of litotes not those used by anyone involved in any criminal proceedings anywhere.

We are, however, talking about a criminal case.  There is a difference between saying, "A jury might not believe her," and "If she says this under oath, she's committing perjury."  They are closer to saying the latter than the former

[Хahar 🤔]

But... but... he's rich and powerful ! He must be guilty !

That doesn't make the arguments you made earlier any less laughable.

[J. J.]

Apparently the woman has already lied once about being raped. That alone could sink the case, even if it wasn't for the rest of facts that were discovered and cast doubt on her truthfulness.

That wouldn't help, but it looks like far more problems than that.

In the US, other inmates often testify against a defendant.  They have usually committed a crime.  Many times they are believed.

[opebo]

Soon, DSK will be doing this 

The fondest dream of every Frenchman who has ever made the grave error of visiting the Bad Place.  Usually its just the horrible food, idiocy, and obese womenfolk that make the Frenchman eager for his ticket home - in this case it is a right-wing international plot to exert a semi-coup upon the people of France!

[opebo]

If anyone ever wonders again why so few women post here...

You ball-less wonder-gnome, how about admitting you were wrong and I was right rather than limply licking the lady-fingers as usual.

Ha ha just kidding of course.  Except for the underlined and bold part.

[Iosif]

This was never about a conviction, they just wanted to perp walk and humiliate him in-front of the world. Trial my media. Franco/Eurobashing.

They've got what they wanted. Cut him loose.

[Antonio the Sixth]

If anyone ever wonders again why so few women post here...

As for the story itself, I'd be very careful (unless and until there are further revelations that move things firmly in that direction) about leaping from 'the case is in trouble because the sole witness is perhaps less than entirely reliable' to 'DSK is innocent', because those two things are not the same even if the eventual result may well be.

What an understatement... Damn, a phone call has been recorded, where she talked to a drug dealer about the possibility of making a lot of money with this story !

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

The case was always going to be problematic as the witness would almost certainly need to be without stain for it to be won and it definitely looks like it has too many problems now to be winnable.  I just hope the resolution of this case doesn't undo the benefits of getting the French to reexamine certain negative aspects of their culture.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

This was never about a conviction, they just wanted to perp walk and humiliate him in-front of the world. Trial my media. Franco/Eurobashing, America's third favourite pastime after obesity and firearm masturbation.

They've got what they wanted. Cut him loose.

Oh I think they wanted him convicted to show they CAN.....I agree with the rest.

[Antonio the Sixth]

The case was always going to be problematic as the witness would almost certainly need to be without stain for it to be won and it definitely looks like it has too many problems now to be winnable.  I just hope the resolution of this case doesn't undo the benefits of getting the French to reexamine certain negative aspects of their culture.

That's true, to some extent. It would also be nice if the Americans could reexamine certain negative aspects of their judicial system, like the way suspects are treated as if they were already guilty.

[Landslide Lyndon]

This was never about a conviction, they just wanted to perp walk and humiliate him in-front of the world. Trial my media. Franco/Eurobashing, America's third favourite pastime after obesity and firearm masturbation.

They've got what they wanted. Cut him loose.

Oh I think they wanted him convicted to show they CAN.....I agree with the rest.

But don't "they" risk making him a martyr now? I certainly can see him running for President and using his ordeal as proof that "they" were out there to get him because he stepped on too many powerful toes and that "bad Americans" humiliated him publicly for political reasons.

[J. J.]

This was never about a conviction, they just wanted to perp walk and humiliate him in-front of the world. Trial my media. Franco/Eurobashing, America's third favourite pastime after obesity and firearm masturbation.

They've got what they wanted. Cut him loose.

Oh I think they wanted him convicted to show they CAN.....I agree with the rest.

At least the prosecutors didn't Nifong it.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

This was never about a conviction, they just wanted to perp walk and humiliate him in-front of the world. Trial my media. Franco/Eurobashing, America's third favourite pastime after obesity and firearm masturbation.

They've got what they wanted. Cut him loose.

Oh I think they wanted him convicted to show they CAN.....I agree with the rest.

At least the prosecutors didn't Nifong it.

True.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The case was always going to be problematic as the witness would almost certainly need to be without stain for it to be won and it definitely looks like it has too many problems now to be winnable.  I just hope the resolution of this case doesn't undo the benefits of getting the French to reexamine certain negative aspects of their culture.

I think this is basically correct. On the latter point... I think it's best to hope for that over the longer term.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

The case was always going to be problematic as the witness would almost certainly need to be without stain for it to be won and it definitely looks like it has too many problems now to be winnable.  I just hope the resolution of this case doesn't undo the benefits of getting the French to reexamine certain negative aspects of their culture.

That's true, to some extent. It would also be nice if the Americans could reexamine certain negative aspects of their judicial system, like the way suspects are treated as if they were already guilty.

If you are referring to the perp walk, I think the main reason it seems to show up here but not elsewhere is the use here of a lay jury combined with the requirement of of a unanimous vote for conviction.  Other than the perp walk I can't think of any reason to think DSK was treated unfairly.  He was a major flight risk who if he fled would be fleeing to a jurisdiction from which extradition could not be reasonably expected.  Not only that, he had thought his job would shield him from criminal prosecution and found out the hard way that it would not.

[big bad fab]

http://www.rue89.com/2011/07/01/affaire-dsk-les-mensonges-de-la-femme-de-chambre-211797

Antonio, have a look at this.
Well, it seems she lied because she was poor, wanted to emigrate to the States and was trapped in her own lies...
And if she lied about her service in rooms, coudln't it be because she was afraid about that ?
I don't see her as evil, when I read this.
Doesn't some refugees from Libya or Tunisia do the same to try to emigrate to France or Italy, with horrrrrrrrible Sarkozy and Berlusconi treating them so harshly ?
Doesn't some Roms traffick many things as they can to earn some money, with horrrrrible Sarkozy trying to police them ?
We must be very careful to wards Diallo, as much as many (French feminists, for example...) should have been careful towards DSK some weeks ago.

I mean, I was the first to say that it was possible that somebody was trying to make money with this.
But all the reactions in France are now a bit outrageous. It seems as if nothing has occurred...
There is still sperm and there were physical violence.
After all, she may have been afraid and, after that, trying to think about all this, she was advised to try to make money.

What is always surprising in our world without morale, without values, without faith, is that many people (and all the medias) always want to describe everything in white and black.
Maybe we've got a dark grey here (DSK assaulting her) and a light grey (the girl afraid and thinking that, after all, if everything is lost, why not trying to get money ?).
Or grey and grey, or black and grey, as you wish, depending on your viewpoint.

[Antonio the Sixth]

The story about his past definitely isn't the big deal here. Her version of facts and her ties with drug dealing, as well as the phone call are far more important.

I'm not accusing her of anything, of course. Contrary to some people here, I repsect presumption of innocence.

[big bad fab]

Even in her ties with bad guys, I think she is probably more a victim than anything else. But I can't prove it .

When I see that Cyrus Vance Jr. hurried so much, when I see now that he may drop everything while there may have been something bad against a girl, I'm a bit disgusted in each case.

That's not about US system. That's about human nature... and about media system (both US and French).

[Kevin]

The story about his past definitely isn't the big deal here. Her version of facts and her ties with drug dealing, as well as the phone call are far more important.

I'm not accusing her of anything, of course. Contrary to some people here, I repsect presumption of innocence.

I would agree with everything you just said,

However, like mentioned earlier since DSK is not well known like say some big movie star etc. What reason would she have to lie?

I'm not questioning whether DSK is innocent or not, or if this woman is not lying? I just think there is more to this story then what is being released to the public at this time.

[Lief 🗽]

What probably happened, if we discount any evil genius mastermind Sarkozy scenarios, is that DSK approached the maid, told her he was a very rich and powerful man, convinced her either with or without money to have some sort of sex with him, and then after he left she, for whatever reason, decided to call it rape.

[opebo]

I just hope the resolution of this case doesn't undo the benefits of getting the French to reexamine certain negative aspects of their culture.

What the hell?  Reexamine French culture?  Why?  When they've just been proven right and correct again, and America has again proven to be an inhumane and vicious police state?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I just hope the resolution of this case doesn't undo the benefits of getting the French to reexamine certain negative aspects of their culture.

What the hell?  Reexamine French culture?  Why?  When they've just been proven right and correct again, and America has again proven to be an inhumane and vicious police state?

So you think that elites should be able to get away with treating the less well off however they damn-well please?  That DSK has done so several times in his past is precisely why the rape accusation was so believable.

[Insula Dei]

I just hope the resolution of this case doesn't undo the benefits of getting the French to reexamine certain negative aspects of their culture.

What the hell?  Reexamine French culture?  Why?  When they've just been proven right and correct again, and America has again proven to be an inhumane and vicious police state?

So you think that elites should be able to get away with treating the less well off however they damn-well please?  That DSK has done so several times in his past is precisely why the rape accusation was so believable.

Has he? I believe the only other story coming out against DSK was from his former step-daughter? And I also seem to recall that that story was quite fishy as these things go, and very conceivably might have been the fall-out of a particularily nasty divorce.

And is that typically French? I don't know about that. I mean, it's easy to point at a media story and draw some quick cliché-based conclusions about a culture you're at best superficially familiar with, which is what irritates me most about the way the whole DSK story has been handled on here. But I wouldn't say that French culture is a particularily misogynist one, or one that's particularily authority-based.